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  1. #1
    Veteran testies's Avatar
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    http://boards.grizzliesonline.com/in...ic=17223&st=20

    "Yeah, and I was SO glad when Pop put McDyess or some other cadaver on Z Bo instead of Tiaggo Splitter. Even then, Splitter could shut down Z Bo. I have no idea why Splitter didn't play more. "

    Pop almost blew it by putting Kawhi on Monta. By giving Belli major minutes. Of course he stopped doing that when water rose to neck levels, but in other years, he never made these fixes. 2011 should have been ours too, very easy le to win

    I'm not even gonna mention game 6

    NEVER.FORGET.

    These innumerous Pop mistakes. A coach carried by Ginobili, who taught himself Magnagno's sytem to the players. Pop is a motivational speaker, and we cease to exist when coach Ginobili retires

    (insert gif of Ginobili with the tactical board during a timeout)

  2. #2
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    Grizzlies fans would know what it takes to win a le.


    Oh wait no they wouldn't.

  3. #3
    TB 2 TB Silver&Black's Avatar
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    Hold on...The Grizzlies have a forum??? Why...???

  4. #4
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I do understand what they're saying. Pop didn't really have a good series against Memphis in 2011 from an Xs and O's standpoint. The same is true for the Dallas series last year, except he obviously let Splitter play Dirk. Pop's decision to bench Green and put Leonard on Ellis in Game Six is why Dallas forced a Game Seven. I didn't do the stats for that series, but Green was absolutely dominating Monta defensively in that game, and Ellis went off in the final minutes after Green sat. I fear Pop is going to do the same thing this year if the Spurs and Mavs meet in the post-season.

  5. #5
    Big Body look_at_g_shred's Avatar
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    Man I bet that series is celebrated like a championship by #gritandgrindnation

  6. #6
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I like the Griz... wish we could get Fat Gasol before he declines

  7. #7
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I like the Griz... wish we could get Fat Gasol before he declines
    How you gonna get 2013 Gasol son?

  8. #8
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    How you gonna get 2013 Gasol son?

  9. #9
    Believe. Malik Hairston's Avatar
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    Pop is human, he makes mistakes, too..

    So did Dad Killer, so does Lebron, so does Duncan, etc..

  10. #10
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Pop is human, he makes mistakes, too..

    So did Dad Killer, so does Lebron, so does Duncan, etc..

  11. #11
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    How you gonna get 2013 Gasol son?
    he's not that bad...

  12. #12
    Old sport KaiRMD1's Avatar
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    That was probably the highest point for the Grizzlies franchise. But mad respect, they beat us fair and square and they did it that grit and grind way but on a serious note, they have a forum?

  13. #13
    Veteran Proxy's Avatar
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    Pop's decision to bench Green and put Leonard on Ellis in Game Six is why Dallas forced a Game Seven. I didn't do the stats for that series, but Green was absolutely dominating Monta defensively in that game, and Ellis went off in the final minutes after Green sat. I fear Pop is going to do the same thing this year if the Spurs and Mavs meet in the post-season.
    Assuming Pop knows of those stats, why fear a repeat mistake this year? What do you think Pop's thought process was, switching them in the first place?

  14. #14
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Assuming Pop knows of those stats, why fear a repeat mistake this year? What do you think Pop's thought process was, switching them in the first place?
    I think he feels like Kawhi is just the better defender in general and wants to put him on the opposing team's best perimeter scorer in crunchtime. Also, he almost certainly wants Manu out there to close games, so it's a choice between Green and Leonard for who's going to be on the floor. A lot of time, the answer to that question is Leonard. But for teams like the Clippers and last year's Mavs, the answer was Green.

    Again, Green proved over the course of the Dallas series that he was the superior Ellis defender. But still in the fourth quarter of Game Six, Pop took him out and put Kawhi on him. So I'm not sure that Pop ever really learned, since Game Seven was a blowout.

  15. #15
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    The Spurs weren't going to win the le in 2011 even with a healthy Manu.

    You aren't going to win a le with an injured Duncan and Manu while relying on chokers like Jefferson and Hill and playing Bonner/Blair significant minutes.

  16. #16
    Mr MVP No.50 mkurts's Avatar
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    I do understand what they're saying. Pop didn't really have a good series against Memphis in 2011 from an Xs and O's standpoint. The same is true for the Dallas series last year, except he obviously let Splitter play Dirk. Pop's decision to bench Green and put Leonard on Ellis in Game Six is why Dallas forced a Game Seven. I didn't do the stats for that series, but Green was absolutely dominating Monta defensively in that game, and Ellis went off in the final minutes after Green sat. I fear Pop is going to do the same thing this year if the Spurs and Mavs meet in the post-season.
    Very possible as Pop likes to throw games just to prove a point and use the loss for motivation, no matter the cost

  17. #17
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    The Spurs weren't going to win the le in 2011 even with a healthy Manu.

    You aren't going to win a le with an injured Duncan and Manu while relying on chokers like Jefferson and Hill and playing Bonner/Blair significant minutes.
    The bolded part is the argument against your first sentence. Splitter rotted on the bench during that series, so Bonner/Blair wouldn't have logged significant minutes Nobody was dominant in the NBA that year. First year of Miami being together. Manu's arm would have gotten better as time went on. History shows that the Spurs are far better with Splitter in the rotation than without. The Spurs were 3-1 against Dallas in the regular season and 3-0 against OKC even the way Pop put them out on the floor. I think that was clearly the second le left on the table by Pop's personnel decisions.

  18. #18
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Easy to say with hindsight but the truth is the Splitter-Duncan pair was atrocious in 2011, clearly backed by stats. It took them a while until they could play together without being huge liabilities. Also 2014 Splitter >> 2011 Splitter, dude has improved a lot.

  19. #19
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Easy to say with hindsight but the truth is the Splitter-Duncan pair was atrocious in 2011, clearly backed by stats. It took them a while until they could play together without being huge liabilities. Also 2014 Splitter >> 2011 Splitter, dude has improved a lot.
    just splitters FT game improvement from 11 to 12 alone made him look like a different player. and that's just one offseason, he came back for the 12-13 season remarkably better from the FT line. add in understanding the system more, repe ion, conditioning and gelling and 11 splitter is miles behind the improved 14 splitter.

    also, the fact that manu's injury came at game 82 of 82 in the reg season was an extra hit. if spurs lost him even 2 weeks earlier, they could've gameplanned some alt movement and ball handling. but with one week to prepare before the MEM series, the timing of manu's injury and his importance in 2011 spurs ball movement/running the offense for his unit was just a death knell.

    MEM really played well, but those fans should scale back because much the spurs fight was limited from their own end and MEM simply took advantage.

  20. #20
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Easy to say with hindsight but the truth is the Splitter-Duncan pair was atrocious in 2011, clearly backed by stats. It took them a while until they could play together without being huge liabilities. Also 2014 Splitter >> 2011 Splitter, dude has improved a lot.
    In 2011, Duncan and Splitter played 30 minutes together. The whole season. That's 1/3 of the minutes Splitter played with Steve Novak. That means the sample size is way too small for the stats to tell you anything. The fact that the Spurs and Duncan have been so good since Splitter started getting minutes trumps any of that. Duncan and Splitter only played 120 minutes together the following year. What's easy to say with hindsight is that was a massive mistake.

    2011 Splitter was very effective against Memphis once he was allowed to play, and that's without having gotten the minutes he should have gotten all year long. Splitter's "improvement" came once he was actually given minutes, which turned the team around, and should have happened two years earlier than it did.

  21. #21
    Bonner/Blair can't do dat capek's Avatar
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    In 2011, Duncan and Splitter played 30 minutes together. The whole season. That's 1/3 of the minutes Splitter played with Steve Novak. That means the sample size is way too small for the stats to tell you anything. The fact that the Spurs and Duncan have been so good since Splitter started getting minutes trumps any of that. Duncan and Splitter only played 120 minutes together the following year. What's easy to say with hindsight is that was a massive mistake.

    2011 Splitter was very effective against Memphis once he was allowed to play, and that's without having gotten the minutes he should have gotten all year long. Splitter's "improvement" came once he was actually given minutes, which turned the team around, and should have happened two years earlier than it did.
    Splitter is a big that plays in a similar space to Duncan. The rationale that leaked out at the time for why the Spurs traded Scola was that he was a big who plays in a similar space to Duncan. Maybe Pop is the patriarchal tyrant that makes every one of these decisions, but does it really seem likely that an all-time great would have no impact on the decisions made about something as fundamental as his space on the court, and who is occupying it besides himself? Put it in the context of what happened with D-Rob. What is the likelihood that he would have been expected to give up a chunk of his space on the court to any less of a talent than Tim Duncan?

    IMO, all that's accomplished by an activity like re-arbitrating the '11 Memphis series is to illustrate just how difficult it is to quantify the degree to which hindsight distorts the path to a sound conclusion.

  22. #22
    Kawhiiii
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    I do understand what they're saying. Pop didn't really have a good series against Memphis in 2011 from an Xs and O's standpoint. The same is true for the Dallas series last year, except he obviously let Splitter play Dirk. Pop's decision to bench Green and put Leonard on Ellis in Game Six is why Dallas forced a Game Seven. I didn't do the stats for that series, but Green was absolutely dominating Monta defensively in that game, and Ellis went off in the final minutes after Green sat. I fear Pop is going to do the same thing this year if the Spurs and Mavs meet in the post-season.
    This year they have parsons so Pop may think that putting kawhi on parsons and green on monta made more sense. At least that makes more sense to me.

  23. #23
    Banned wildchild's Avatar
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    I do understand what they're saying. Pop didn't really have a good series against Memphis in 2011 from an Xs and O's standpoint. The same is true for the Dallas series last year, except he obviously let Splitter play Dirk. Pop's decision to bench Green and put Leonard on Ellis in Game Six is why Dallas forced a Game Seven. I didn't do the stats for that series, but Green was absolutely dominating Monta defensively in that game, and Ellis went off in the final minutes after Green sat. I fear Pop is going to do the same thing this year if the Spurs and Mavs meet in the post-season.
    I disagree, Dallas forced a game seven because Pop was outcoached by Carlisle's game plan, particularly his defensive schemes and switches.

    It took six games to put Danny on Monta but it was because Pop lost his patience with Green's offense -his shot wasn't falling in the first games- and Beli played more/Danny played less minutes than advisable.
    But Leonard on Ellis wasn't the reason for the long series, Carlisle's game plan was.

  24. #24
    Banned wildchild's Avatar
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    This year they have parsons so Pop may think that putting kawhi on parsons and green on monta made more sense. At least that makes more sense to me.
    Agree. Also, I didn't like how Pop put Kawhi on Harden and Danny on Parsons, it didn't work in regular season.
    Kawhi can defend Parsons better than Danny, and vice versa Green on Monta sounds really good.

  25. #25
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    IMO, all that's accomplished by an activity like re-arbitrating the '11 Memphis series is to illustrate just how difficult it is to quantify the degree to which hindsight distorts the path to a sound conclusion.
    Hindsight confirms what some of us have said from the time Splitter was drafted. He makes the team better on both ends, particularly on defense, and particularly because of the pressure he takes off Duncan. He would have been better to have on the floor from the day he arrived in town. Period. There's no way to distort that. People talking about space seem to think that offensive spacing matters when you have two bigs that play the pick and roll as well as they do. It doesn't. They aren't competing for post space or both standing 15 feet away shooting jumpers. I predicted the Spurs' pick and rolls would become unlike anything we'd ever seen when Splitter was on the floor with Duncan and Manu and Parker. That's what happened. Instead we had a year that he sat on the bench and they decided to mess with his shooting form, which wrecked his free throw shooting for over a year. Wasn't well handled. I'm just grateful that they finally figured it out.

    Scola was a power forward When Scola was traded, Duncan had played his entire career at power forward next to true centers. There was a case to be made, since he and Duncan played the same position, though Scola's jumper was far more reliable than anyone was saying at the time, and he would have been a quality addition to any team.

    Splitter is a center. Always has been. It's why they play well together.

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