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  1. #51
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    The point I was making is Russia doesn't have the money to forcefully occupy a state as large and rebellious as the Ukraine. As soon as they started handing out atrocities on civilians as a matter of form (which WOULD happen), NATO would be all over it like flies on while the western MIC rubbed their hands together and thanked Putin for the all the money he inadvertently lined their pockets with.

  2. #52
    coffee is for closers Infinite_limit's Avatar
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    The point I was making is Russia doesn't have the money to forcefully occupy a state as large and rebellious as the Ukraine. As soon as they started handing out atrocities on civilians as a matter of form (which WOULD happen), NATO would be all over it like flies on while the western MIC rubbed their hands together and thanked Putin for the all the money he inadvertently lined their pockets with.
    I agree. There was discussion of why doesn't Poland land grab the Western part of Ukraine, some former Polish land. The general agreement is who would want to undertake all those hungry mouths? I don't imagine Russia wanting to either

  3. #53
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    War by who? Ukraine isn't Nato
    You don't think the US and Europe will fund a resistance?
    He wants it in a Crimean way. Even then, it's not in Russia's economic interest or long term health.

    They have already made Europe look elsewhere for long term hydrocarbon needs which was absolutely stupid. Then the Chinese come in and just rape them on Gas deals because Europe is pulling back. It's madness.

  4. #54
    coffee is for closers Infinite_limit's Avatar
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    You don't think the US and Europe will fund a resistance?
    He wants it in a Crimean way. Even then, it's not in Russia's economic interest or long term health.

    They have already made Europe look elsewhere for long term hydrocarbon needs which was absolutely stupid. Then the Chinese come in and just rape them on Gas deals because Europe is pulling back. It's madness.
    Don't see how Putin had any other choice on Ukraine. If Neo-Nazis were being trained in Puerto Rico, Obama would do the same

  5. #55
    Believe.
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    What is your opinion of USA funding the destabilization of Russias neighbor?
    If you want to imply that revolution wouldn't happen without USA support you're wrong. Critical mass of people was simply fed up with corruption and low living standards. What remains to be seen is if they will make at least a half-serious state out of Ukraine or they simply plan to change the guard at the pork barrels.

    Nazis were retreating before US stepped foot in Europe
    True. Soviet Union gets a lot of respect for that.

    BUT. They probably couldn't do it without western support and equipment. @3:00 if you're in a hurry.




    How many nations has Russia invaded in the past 25 years? (USA - Iraq I, Iraq II & Afghanistan)
    That makes it since 1989, right?

    Well, Soviets were just getting their asses out of Afghanistan and Eritrea if it counts, but then we have Moldova, Tajikistan, Georgia (twice) and Ukraine. There were also uprisings in Chechnya (was actually independent for few years), Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkar Republic, Karachay–Cherkess Republic and North&South Ossetia but the're Russian federal subjects.

    How many governments has Russia destabilized in North America? (USA - Ukraine & Yugoslavia)
    Great. You found a continent with 3 governments. A bit unfair?

    As said before I strongly doubt that USA is much to blame for all brouhaha in Ukraine.

    With Yugoslavia you're mostly wrong too.

    It was a bit of a perfect storm. Yugoslavia has been non-aligned since 1948 and did business with and curried favors from both blocks. For example, first Yugoslav military jets were F-84 Thunderjets. Our Dear or not so Dear Leader, who kept nationalisms in check, died in May 1980, there was also domestic economic mismanagement. USSR went to at just about that time and USA weren't up for sponsoring a socialist state in central Europe they didn't have to.

    Secretary of state caught a solid amount of flak on streets of Slovenia for this one:




    If Neo-Nazis were being trained in Puerto Rico, Obama would do the same
    This Ukrainian neonazis line is biggest Russian propaganda success of the conflict. Right now Ukraine had 2 elections since revolution and on both of them far-right parties had dismal showing. In Rada elections not a single far-right list got over the threshold. I think that 4 individuals with far-right leanings were elected directly, 2 of them in eastern districts. They make under 1% of parliament. Meanwhile France and Hungary have more than 20% of far right representatives.

    There are certainly far-righters in Ukraine and even on the front-line. When all is over Hague tribunal will for sure be busy with crimes of both sides.

    But there are also many neonazis from Russia taking part on the pro-russian side. Quide a few of them are proud of their leanings and are do enting their exploits.

    For example:


    Woman in the middle is Dragana Trifković, international observer of seperatist elections of 2nd November. Guys next to her are Russian neo-nazis from Sankt Peterburg. One on the right got quite famous in 2011 when he beheaded a dog, apparently eaten his head and posted photos online. If you want to see more google Alexey Milchakov.


  6. #56
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    The Russians are pussies, always have been. A single Georgian held their entire nation in fear for 30 years, killing them thousands a day.

  7. #57
    coffee is for closers Infinite_limit's Avatar
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    In this thread Americans get butthurt.

  8. #58
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That happened regardless of this threads event. USA already successfully forced the decline of every market: as the global currency when everyone loses, America loses the least. Russia doing nothing at this point would have been classic behavior of a battered woman. I hope Russia forces Europe to send in trips and as a European I hope those forces get their ass handed to them to teach Europe a lesson as to who they are siding with.

    Great news that Russia is sending trips to Americas backyard. After America started meddling in Russia sphere. Russia learned it's lesson from the Cuban Missile Crisis, they shouldn't have budged.

    Either way Russia is being economically punished by Nato/US/Europe. Might as well do what they have been slandered by US as doing all along
    The word is "troops", btw.

    It isn't slander if it is true, dingleberry. The secret military burials of dozens of russian paratroopers that all just happened to be from the same units, and the type of units that would be best used in such unofficial warfare, is proof enough.

    Russia's sphere would be a lot easier to respect, if they didn't force their neighbors into things like a classic schoolyard bully.

    In this case though, the bullying results in human misery and an erosion of national sovereignty. Corrosive in the extreme to international norms.

  9. #59
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about joining the russian military and doing 3 years in exchange for citizenship
    Please do.

    I normally don't wish that kind of on anyone, but in your case, I will make an exception.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina

  10. #60
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    your spheres of influence and all that neo-colonialist bull .

    Russia lost it's empire at the end of cold war just like Austria (and Hungary) did after WWI and GB sometime after WWII. Sooner Russians understand that better it is for all of us.

    Ukraine should be free to associate with whomever they like.

    /rant over
    +1

  11. #61
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Please do it.
    And don't come whimpering back home when they find out you are a Nazi.
    Heh, for some reason I get the impression that worshipping hitler doesn't go over well in the Russian army.

  12. #62
    coffee is for closers Infinite_limit's Avatar
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    <------ European backing the White Race. Go away Yankee

  13. #63
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    european man purse carrying got jacking off to putin

  14. #64
    coffee is for closers Infinite_limit's Avatar
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    european man purse carrying got jacking off to putin
    Carrying purse > Living in traffic

  15. #65
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    When is the last time you were in Russia? My best friends parents visited 3 months ago.

    Russia is blood thirsty after 2 decades of no War and fully united, something you cannot say about the USA. Decaying and fermenting from within.....so now you are blasting America?
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...a/industry.htm


    The present condition of Russia's defense sector is critical, and the reasons are well known. One is the aging of highly qualified production personnel, many of whom are approaching retirement age. Engineering school graduates are unwilling to take jobs in the defense sector because of low wages. No worker replacements are trained anywhere in the country either. Earlier, it was taboo to draft workers from defense factories into the army. Now this privilege is abandoned, and graduates of the few surviving vocational schools seek employment elsewhere, but not in the defense sector where receiving a foreign travel passport is a problem.

    Another problem is the aging of the equipment in the defense industry: its production lines and machine tools have long passed the 30-year limit. Many key technologies have been lost as have co-production links. The uncontrolled growth of energy costs is outstripping inflation and is well above the deflators provided by the Economic Development and Trade Ministry. It was obvious that the 2006-2015 government defense order would fall short in both the range and quality of products ordered.
    A bit dated, but most of the recent additional spending has been insufficient to overcome the disintegration of the old Soviet military complex. Russia has fallen behind China in fighter development as a symptom of this.

    The Russian demographic crisis is also pretty well do ented:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...isis_of_Russia
    Low birth rates are hard to hide, and easy to pick out.

    To be fair, more recent economic gains from higher oil prices and the second wave of 1990's kids has stabilized it, although I would guess temporarily, given the almost certain economic impact of Putin's reckless stupidity.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadom...an-demography/

    Did find an interesting very recent book that I might pick up:
    http://warontherocks.com/2014/11/rus...e-you-think/#_

    FWIW.




    This is coupled with a health crisis of epidemic proportion.

  16. #66
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    tl;dr of this thread: Russia.

  17. #67
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about joining the russian military and doing 3 years in exchange for citizenship
    Please be sure to join a mine-clearing battalion.

  18. #68
    Deandre Jordan Sucks m>s's Avatar
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    off good goyim

  19. #69
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Russians did not have any trouble with Japan because US got involved after Pearl Harbor.
    Soviets pulled troops for eastern campaign because of this.
    Where did you learn history, did you forget the Pacific campaign?
    Did you forget Japan?
    Why is it people forget Russia moved troops meant for Japan to the Eastern front because the U.S. engaged Japan?
    Do people remember Japan was in WWII? And not in a minor Italian way.

  20. #70
    Deandre Jordan Sucks m>s's Avatar
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    It's funny watching a bunch of military know nothings talk about things they neither know nor understand


    http://english.pravda.ru/russia/poli...ar_surprise-0/

  21. #71
    Deandre Jordan Sucks m>s's Avatar
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    Russia has already won the ideological battle and is withstanding Americas sanctions..other countries will soon lose patience with keeping the pressure on Russia to benefit america. At this point russia cannot be beaten militarily or economically after the China deal. Sure america can hurt Russia but it'll be its own undoing while russia will survive and bounce back. The american empire is on its death bed. We are rotting culturally and physically with out infrastructure. Americas future is as a brown 2nd world socialist republic.

  22. #72
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    It's funny watching a bunch of military know nothings talk about things they neither know nor understand


    http://english.pravda.ru/russia/poli...ar_surprise-0/
    It's even funnier watching you try to deflect and snark your way out of this.

    That link is ing HILARIOUS. Where the did you find such trash?

  23. #73
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    Seriously guys. Read that link.

  24. #74
    Deandre Jordan Sucks m>s's Avatar
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    Read it and weep u mean

  25. #75
    Believe.
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    As a result, today Russia is the absolute leader in this regard. In mid-2014, the balance of the Defense Ministry had as many as 18,177 tanks (T-90 - 400 pcs., T-72B - 7,144 pcs., T-80 - 4,744 pcs, T-64 - 4,000 pcs, T-62 - 689 pcs, and T-55 - 1200 pcs.).


    T-55 - Korean war era relic, useless
    T-62 - Vietnam war era relic, useless
    T-64 - Ukrainian made, all in storage. They were being shipped en masse in early stages of conflict, but now they switched almost exclusively to T-72s. They either ran out of usable tanks or crews.
    T-72 - Their bread&butter. If not latest modernization they're useless at night.
    T-80 - Gas turbine powered, huge fuel consumption. Also useless at night.
    T-90 - Basically a modernization of T-72. Solid tank, but due to several deficiencies they gave up and are going for clean sheet design.

    All Russian tanks from T-64 on have auto loader of similar design. Rounds are stored in floor and on carousel all around the turret. No blast or blow out doors anywhere. If hit in right place it makes for interesting and probably last experience.


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