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  1. #101
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    How do you know how upset they are about black-on-black crime? Because of what you get from the media you distrust so much.
    So, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Barack Obama, et. al. are putting their community organizer creds to work organizing against black on black crime and I missed it? There are protesters amassing in the inner cities of Chicago, Detroit, and Los Angeles, demanding an end to black on black crime, and the media isn't reporting it?

    What am I missing?

  2. #102
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Whenever cir stances warrant.
    So not for everybody? Why would "cir stances" change that, if one of the tenets for justice in this country enshrined in the Cons ution is that we're all the equal under the law?

    I understand what you're saying and it but a matter of semantics. I do not believe you're using the term "outlier" in the proper context and, in the context in which you did use it, it appeared to describe the process not the outcome. Yes, "outlier" is a statistical term but, it means an observation point that is distant from all other observation points. And, in that context, the process the prosecutor has employed in this instance is an "outlier" when compared to all other Grand Jury processes -- I believe it is unique.
    Well, that was my response to "an innocent person shouldn't be run through a gauntlet of that type of trial" (referring to jury trials). I think that goes beyond this case but, unfortunately, looking at the statistics, our system is setup largely not to work that way, and jury trials are largely the venue where such determinations are made.

  3. #103
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    So not for everybody? Why would "cir stances" change that, if one of the tenets for justice in this country enshrined in the Cons ution is that we're all the equal under the law?
    I tried to explain that earlier but, you said it wasn't germane to the conversation.

    In the case, the cir stance that your community is about to be razed by a bunch of blood-thirsty criminals demanding an outcome without knowing the facts might be a cir stance when you would want to engage in a Grand Jury process such as was done in Ferguson, Missouri.

    Well, that was my response to "an innocent person shouldn't be run through a gauntlet of that type of trial" (referring to jury trials). I think that goes beyond this case but, unfortunately, looking at the statistics, our system is setup largely not to work that way, and jury trials are largely the venue where such determinations are made.
    Okay, whatever you say.

  4. #104
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Fighting with a cop for his weapon -- not a good idea
    That was one of the points of fact in question.

  5. #105
    Believe. Dirk Oneanddoneski's Avatar
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    The transcripts are a gold mine

  6. #106
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    That was one of the points of fact in question.
    And, there is forensic evidence that supports there was a struggle, during which a gun was discharged inside Officer Wilson's patrol vehicle. There's also forensic evidence Michael Brown was outside the driver's door and that Officer was seated in in the driver's seat when the struggle occurred. The gun discharged, striking the inside door panel, penetrating the door and shattering the rolled down window (the opening through which Michael Brown was assaulting Officer Wilson).

  7. #107
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    And, there is forensic evidence that supports there was a struggle, during which a gun was discharged inside Officer Wilson's patrol vehicle. There's also forensic evidence Michael Brown was outside the driver's door and that Officer was seated in in the driver's seat when the struggle occurred. The gun discharged, striking the inside door panel, penetrating the door and shattering the rolled down window (the opening through which Michael Brown was assaulting Officer Wilson).
    That doesn't mean he went for the gun. As has been pointed out, defense wounds look much the same. How about the lack of bruising, lacerations, etc from his hospital examination?

  8. #108
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    So, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Barack Obama, et. al. are putting their community organizer creds to work organizing against black on black crime and I missed it? There are protesters amassing in the inner cities of Chicago, Detroit, and Los Angeles, demanding an end to black on black crime, and the media isn't reporting it?

    What am I missing?
    Jackson, Sharpton and Obama speak for all black people? I didn't realize you were only criticizing three people here, it seemed like you were criticizing the entire black community. But if you Google those names and anti-violence, I'm sure you'll find some examples of work they've done to try to curb inner-city violence, assuming you trust the source. Also, if it makes you feel any better, Chris Rock likes those guys.

    Or, you could get outside and talk to people to get a real perspective on how people feel about black-on-black crime.

  9. #109
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    your community is about to be razed by a bunch of blood-thirsty criminals demanding an outcome without knowing the facts .
    Not the same people.

  10. #110
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    Not the same people.
    Not the same people as who? The people in your community or the people committing black-on-black crime elsewhere?

  11. #111
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    OBAMA LECTURES AMERICA ABOUT THE JUSTIFIED ANGER TOWARDS LAW ENFORCEMENT IN MINORITY COMMUNITIES

    Here, Spurm, the President agrees with you. Too bad our President won't lecture the minority community on unjustified violence over a process that doesn't produce the result they want.

  12. #112
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Thanks Obama!

  13. #113
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I tried to explain that earlier but, you said it wasn't germane to the conversation.

    In the case, the cir stance that your community is about to be razed by a bunch of blood-thirsty criminals demanding an outcome without knowing the facts might be a cir stance when you would want to engage in a Grand Jury process such as was done in Ferguson, Missouri.
    This case doesn't really matter in answering that question. The fundamental idea is that you think we shouldn't all be the same under the laws. Some should get preferential treatment, while others do not, as "cir stances warrant".

    I don't subscribe to that notion, because it inherently undermines the concept we have of justice, a pillar of this country. And because, obviously, it's a slippery slope.

  14. #114
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Not the same people as who? The people in your community or the people committing black-on-black crime elsewhere?
    The protesters and the looters aren't the same people. Jesus, dude, keep up...

    OBAMA LECTURES AMERICA ABOUT THE JUSTIFIED ANGER TOWARDS LAW ENFORCEMENT IN MINORITY COMMUNITIES

    Here, Spurm, the President agrees with you. Too bad our President won't lecture the minority community on unjustified violence over a process that doesn't produce the result they want.


    Seems like he was very specifically addressing potential looters in his speech today and yesterday. Maybe if you read the speech instead of getting your talking points from Breitbart (LOL) you'd feel better about it.
    I'm not going to argue against a claim made by a headline about a speech. I prefer the primary source material.

    From yesterday, following the decision:

    But I join Michael’s parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully. Let me repeat Michael’s father’s words: “Hurting others or destroying property is not the answer. No matter what the grand jury decides, I do not want my son’s death to be in vain. I want it to lead to incredible change, positive change, change that makes the St. Louis region better for everyone.” Michael Brown’s parents have lost more than anyone. We should be honoring their wishes.

    I also appeal to the law enforcement officials in Ferguson and the region to show care and restraint in managing peaceful protests that may occur. Understand, our police officers put their lives on the line for us every single day. They’ve got a tough job to do to maintain public safety and hold accountable those who break the law. As they do their jobs in the coming days, they need to work with the community, not against the community, to distinguish the handful of people who may use the grand jury’s decision as an excuse for violence -- distinguish them from the vast majority who just want their voices heard around legitimate issues in terms of how communities and law enforcement interact.

    But what is also true is that there are still problems and communities of color aren't just making these problems up. Separating that from this particular decision, there are issues in which the law too often feels as if it is being applied in discriminatory fashion. I don't think that's the norm. I don't think that's true for the majority of communities or the vast majority of law enforcement officials. But these are real issues. And we have to lift them up and not deny them or try to tamp them down. What we need to do is to understand them and figure out how do we make more progress. And that can be done.

    That won't be done by throwing bottles. That won't be done by smashing car windows. That won't be done by using this as an excuse to vandalize property. And it certainly won't be done by hurting anybody. So, to those in Ferguson, there are ways of channeling your concerns constructively and there are ways of channeling your concerns destructively. Michael Brown’s parents understand what it means to be constructive. The vast majority of peaceful protesters, they understand it as well.
    Those of you who are watching tonight understand that there’s never an excuse for violence, particularly when there are a lot of people in goodwill out there who are willing to work on these issues.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...erguson-missou

    And today... I mean some of this is even in the Breitbart article, though predictably they chose to rile their gullible readers up by focusing on other snippets.

    "Burning buildings, torching cards, destroying property, putting people at risk, that's destructive and there's no excuse for it. Those are criminal acts. People should be prosecuted if they engage in criminal acts," the president said during a speech in Chicago. "To those who think that what happened in Ferguson is an excuse for violence, I do not have any sympathy for that. I have no sympathy at all for destroying your own communities."

    "I've never seen a civil rights law or a health care bill or an immigration bill result because a car got burned," Mr. Obama said. "It happened because people vote, it happened because people mobilize, it happened because people organize, it happens because people look at what are the best policies to solve a problem. That's how you actually move something forward."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-no...s-in-ferguson/

    I mean, really, Breitbart? Your intelligence isn't insulted by that rag? Maybe I've given you too much credit... I thought you were a clever shill but judging by your inability to keep up with the discussion in this thread and your tendency to use sources like Breitbart to support your arguments (despite also claiming you don't trust the media), maybe you really are just a gullible dumbass. Night.

  15. #115
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    The protesters and the looters aren't the same people. Jesus, dude, keep up...
    Which is Michael Brown's father?



    And, personal attacks are for people losing arguments.

  16. #116
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    This is really tough.

    It is very clear some eyewitnesses must be lying.
    There is too much time for the whole ordeal for there to be such different views.
    I can see how some parts are fuzzy, but not others.

  17. #117
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Which is Michael Brown's father?

    I can cut a grieving family member a little slack. He shouldn't have reacted that way. Do you have pictures of him actually looting?

    Based on timelines posted all over the web of last night, the looting didn't begin until over an hour after the statement was read. If you've got something other else showing that this actually caused his supporters to mobilize and start vandalizing the city, I'm open to it. I probably shouldn't have been so definitive anyway, because I'm sure there were a few rioters who were genuinely angry about the Brown case. Most, however, were just there for the scene and free .

    And, personal attacks are for people losing arguments.
    So is ignoring whole blocks of text that directly refute your argument. And changing the subject every chance you get.

  18. #118
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    I can cut a grieving family member a little slack. He shouldn't have reacted that way. Do you have pictures of him actually looting?

    Based on timelines posted all over the web of last night, the looting didn't begin until over an hour after the statement was read. If you've got something other else showing that this actually caused his supporters to mobilize and start vandalizing the city, I'm open to it. I probably shouldn't have been so definitive anyway, because I'm sure there were a few rioters who were genuinely angry about the Brown case. Most, however, were just there for the scene and free .
    I think the crossover is a lot bigger than you're willing to admit.

    So is ignoring whole blocks of text that directly refute your argument. And changing the subject every chance you get.
    It's an already tedious exchange -- throw in personal attacks and, I lose interest in even trying to discern your points from the "whole blocks of text..."

  19. #119
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Now yoni is playing the martyr card and ignoring the rest of the argument. THAT is the sign of someone losing.

  20. #120
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    Now yoni is playing the martyr card and ignoring the rest of the argument. THAT is the sign of someone losing.
    Nah, just the lazy, disinterested card.

  21. #121
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Nah, just the lazy, disinterested card.
    That still results in you losing the argument. I don't give a about motive. I am interested in result.

  22. #122
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    That still results in you losing the argument. I don't give a about motive. I am interested in result.
    Yeah! You and Spurm won the internet.

    How's that working out for the citizens of Ferguson?

  23. #123
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Yeah! You and Spurm won the internet.

    How's that working out for the citizens of Ferguson?
    No we won the argument against you. That it happened on the internet is just an aside.

  24. #124
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Lazy goes without saying, but LOL @ 11 straight hours of "disinterested" arguing.

  25. #125
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    Lazy goes without saying, but LOL @ 11 straight hours of "disinterested" arguing.
    Technology is fantastic. Put it all together and I've probably spent an hour actually reading and posting. Still too long, I agree.

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