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  1. #26
    Believe. SpurSwag's Avatar
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    2way player > elite offensive player in any playoff game tbh
    That's just not true, like someone said 2 way players have become pretty overrated. A prime dirk is a much better building block for a contender than Marc gasol for example, yes gasol is gonna play solid and occasionally great on offense and consistently great on d, but he's not gonna be transcendent. Even thoufh dirk has never been a great defender, he carried that 2011 team because they covered his weaknesses and allowed his transcendent talent to lead them. 1 way superstars (and I mean legit superstars) > solid 2 way players

  2. #27
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Good post, tbh..

    While I would definitely take Nowitzki over Nash, I have noticed that Nash has become underrated due to the controversy of his MVPs(as much as I dislike him), tbh..

    Overall, as a player, he was easily better than Kidd or Payton, but gets downplayed due to NBA fan's overrating of "2-way" ability, along with the controversial MVP voting..while being White helps him avoid criticism for controversial off-court issues, I find it interesting that his game and on-court reputation hasn't been inflated by being White, unlike somebody like Larry Bird..

    From the 90s-Present, the only PG I'd take over him is Stockton, and I'd consider Chris Paul, too(Curry, as well, if he maintains this pace for a few more years)..
    You are making it sound like Payton sucked offensively, when he was a career 16/7 guy, with peaks of 24/9, and had a career ORtg of 111, with a peak of 118 with the slow and unwatchable mid-90s.

    Jason Kidd had peaks of 17/11, with ORtg of high 100's and low 110's.

    Yes, Nash had 18/12 seasons, and ORtg peaks of mid 120's, and is a much better shooter, but his offense isn't that much further ahead than Jason Kidd or Gary Payton that it could eclipse the difference in their defense.

  3. #28
    moral victory, tbh. Franklin's Avatar
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    even gangbanger got a regular season MVP and he hasn't achieved for his team yet since he joined the league.

  4. #29
    Believe. Mori Chu's Avatar
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    I loved Steve Nash and watched his entire prime in Phoenix. But I would begrudgingly admit that Dirk has had the better career. Two finals, one le, lots more scoring, rebounding, better at taking over games, more terrifying at his peak; he's ahead despite Nash's 2 MVPs. Both are great players, of course.

  5. #30
    leveled up sook's Avatar
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    SteveN Nash is criminally underrated nowadays, some people claim that Paul is a better all time PG which is insane...

    When it comes to the Dirk argument however, its cut and closed, Dirk was a greater legend at the end of the day. The gap wasn't wide, but it was still there and it shouldn't really be a question.

  6. #31
    Believe.
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    Where are Roy Tarpley and Derek Harper when you need them,,,huh, Maverick fan?

  7. #32
    Mr MVP No.50 mkurts's Avatar
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    Nash is great, but nowhere near Dirk and its not even close.

    Dirk is a franchise player, Nash is not

  8. #33
    ... scanry's Avatar
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    SteveN Nash is criminally underrated nowadays, some people claim that Paul is a better all time PG which is insane...

    When it comes to the Dirk argument however, its cut and closed, Dirk was a greater legend at the end of the day. The gap wasn't wide, but it was still there and it shouldn't really be a question.
    You're are also missing how clutch Steve Nash was back in his prime. He could close out games and unlike Paul, was never afraid of taking the last shot.

    Paul is extremely overrated due to his nice guy persona. BTW by gambling and stat padding for steals doesn't make you a good defender. Parker for some reason has owned that ass.

  9. #34
    Believe.
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    It's close, I'd go with Dirk although there is no greater individual honor than MVP. There's no right answer.

  10. #35
    leveled up sook's Avatar
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    You're are also missing how clutch Steve Nash was back in his prime. He could close out games and unlike Paul, was never afraid of taking the last shot.

    Paul is extremely overrated due to his nice guy persona. BTW by gambling and stat padding for steals doesn't make you a good defender. Parker for some reason has owned that ass.
    Even after his peak, on the downside of his career he was doing things I didn't think possible. That year where the Suns went full re and traded for Shaq (08?), they played the Spurs in the 1st round and I remember how insanely clutch Nash was, just carrying his team even though they ended up losing. I know Spur fans will resent me for this, and I'll admit that Phoenix was SA's throughout those years, but 07' was theirs to have had a couple of situations regarding the league standing rules been different. I seriously think that they could have won the real NBA finals, the WCF (since the sacrificial lamb was coming out of the east..) that year.

  11. #36
    ... scanry's Avatar
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    Even after his peak, on the downside of his career he was doing things I didn't think possible. That year where the Suns went full re and traded for Shaq (08?), they played the Spurs in the 1st round and I remember how insanely clutch Nash was, just carrying his team even though they ended up losing. I know Spur fans will resent me for this, and I'll admit that Phoenix was SA's throughout those years, but 07' was theirs to have had a couple of situations regarding the league standing rules been different. I seriously think that they could have won the real NBA finals, the WCF (since the sacrificial lamb was coming out of the east..) that year.
    That's a big if as Game 5 could've gone either way tbh. The Spurs should've won game 4 too. They had a big lead entering the 4th and they just unraveled.

  12. #37
    Veteran Sean Cagney's Avatar
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    Steve Trash tbh.

    just kidding, but putting him over dirk is going full re .
    I agree. In his Prime Nash and MVP type player and he ran the O very well! Was an overall threat you had to watch out for, Pop called him the head of the snake and you had to cut it off! You keyed on Nash. All time though? Dirks body of work and longevity all times is superior! I love Nash and he had a great career but Dirk to me is a legend and up there with the best after MJ like someone said. Dirk got this one, sorry OP.
    Nash is great, but nowhere near Dirk and its not even close.

    Dirk is a franchise player, Nash is not
    Nash was close from 04-07 Days, after that not so much. He had a window where he was on a different level, Dirk though sustained it alot longer and lead a team to a le with an unbelievable le run in 011, he was on fire the whole playoffs and had one of the best runs I have seen personally.

  13. #38
    Veteran Sean Cagney's Avatar
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    That's a big if as Game 5 could've gone either way tbh. The Spurs should've won game 4 too. They had a big lead entering the 4th and they just unraveled.
    That game 4 my power went out with us up like 3 or so in the 4th, when it came back on that game we were down and Horry's foul I saw. They blew that game bigtime, annual Spurs in control at the time playoff game they should have won but choked, they had those a few times a year in that le run era. I love the Spurs but they would BLOW some big leads at home in playoff games to scare you or just flat out lose. 03 they blew game one against Dallas and had no business blowing game 5 against Dallas at home up 17 without Dirk, then the LA series as well up 20 some odd points and 16 heading intot he 4th game 5, nearly gave that game and series away in 03. Spurs routinely would blow that big lead in those days, they still do it from time to time and scare the outta you.

    Even after his peak, on the downside of his career he was doing things I didn't think possible. That year where the Suns went full re and traded for Shaq (08?), they played the Spurs in the 1st round and I remember how insanely clutch Nash was, just carrying his team even though they ended up losing. I know Spur fans will resent me for this, and I'll admit that Phoenix was SA's throughout those years, but 07' was theirs to have had a couple of situations regarding the league standing rules been different. I seriously think that they could have won the real NBA finals, the WCF (since the sacrificial lamb was coming out of the east..) that year.
    I disagree because the Spurs were in control pretty much in game 4 until they choked at the end of it and should have been up 3-1, it was that CLOSE! The series would have went 7 no doubt or should have but honestly the Spurs blew that game 4 and they are in control up 3-1. They stole one in PHX game one and took game 3 and should have had game 4 but pulled their annual playoff game how did they choke it away and let PHX back in the series and tied it up. I think PHX maybe wins game 5 if their guys are in there and the Spurs win game 6. That might have went 7 games no joke and it's a tossup.

  14. #39
    Kawhichael 100%duncan's Avatar
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    The ?

  15. #40
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    0 and forever is not better than Dirk. You cannot carry a team like Dirk did to the Finals, win finals MVP and be bested by a point guard who couldn't get over the hump. It can't happen.

  16. #41
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    SteveN Nash is criminally underrated nowadays, some people claim that Paul is a better all time PG which is insane...

    When it comes to the Dirk argument however, its cut and closed, Dirk was a greater legend at the end of the day. The gap wasn't wide, but it was still there and it shouldn't really be a question.
    best take ive seen yet

    nash gets ridiculously underrated and underappreciated

  17. #42
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    2way player > elite offensive player in any playoff game tbh
    lol kevin garnett

  18. #43
    Deandre Jordan Sucks m>s's Avatar
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    It's because of his laker days that he's getting underrated. It's best to just retire before people start to remember the bad instead of the good. It's gonna happen to kobe too.

  19. #44
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Team defense starts with the backcourt, so the impact of his ty D was huge during the playoffs
    is this a joke? or are you intentionally being a moron of extreme proportions?

    everyone with a brain knows that team defense always starts with the center, as he is far and away the most important piece to any good defense.

  20. #45
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    is this a joke? or are you intentionally being a moron of extreme proportions?

    everyone with a brain knows that team defense always starts with the center, as he is far and away the most important piece to any good defense.

    Is the center guarding Parker?

    Is it the center's fault if Enrique gets in the paint


    So yeah it starts there

  21. #46
    ... scanry's Avatar
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    Is the center guarding Parker?

    Is it the center's fault if Enrique gets in the paint

    So yeah it starts there
    Don't forget Parker got abused by Devin Harris in the 2000's. He was our weaklink in 2006 tbh.

  22. #47
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Don't forget Parker got abused by Devin Harris in the 2000's. He was our weaklink in 2006 tbh.
    Exactly

  23. #48
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    It depends on what you mean by "starts with". There's a reason a center is call a defensive anchor, and I've never seen a PG called that. The ball might start up top so from that perspective the PG is likely the first person to provide a traffic cone for the ball handler, but I wouldn't misstate that as saying the defense starts with the backcourt.

  24. #49
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    It depends on what you mean by "starts with". There's a reason a center is call a defensive anchor, and I've never seen a PG called that. The ball might start up top so from that perspective the PG is likely the first person to provide a traffic cone for the ball handler, but I wouldn't misstate that as saying the defense starts with the backcourt.
    Yeah, "first line of defense" is the appropriate term for guards. Big men are the anchors with more responsibility overall (boxing out, rebounding, etc).

  25. #50
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Yeah, "first line of defense" is the appropriate term for guards. Big men are the anchors with more responsibility overall (boxing out, rebounding, etc).
    Yeah, a good house starts with the front door.

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