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I agree tbh
He s on Messi as well
Not a Tim Duncan, Lebron James type of franchise player of course but a Steve Nash, Allen Iverson type. The kind of player that can be the face of a franchise for a long period of time, sell tickets and be relatively succesful. Let's say the 1999 draft happens again with the knowledge we all have now of how good each player is going to be. I think it's fair to say that Manu would go as the 1st pick (some may pick Baron Davis).
Do you imagine Manu Ginobili on a big market team like the Bulls with the hype of being the number one pick eurostepping, flopping, nut-megging and dunking on people faces all while playing great, efficient, team ball? Do you imagine the kind of attention this white/Latin/Italian folk would get? Tebow would be jelous of the kind of attention Manu would get.
So, does anyone really have a counterargument to this actually happening other than the overblown durability/injury prone thing?
I agree tbh
He s on Messi as well
He easily would have averaged 25 in his prime. He probably would have averaged around 19-20 ppg when his career was set and done (putting into account he probably wouldn't be around today from injuries).
franchise player? maybe.....but he wont be on the same tier as the other guys who are marketed very heavily, globally/arg he will have a market...but i dont think he be bigger star then those ahead of him...
How long have you been rocking that sig, tbh?
lol just got it in the last 24hrs when i was surfing for prawn
How long 'till you get censored bro?
hahahaa when i get a warning i will remove it...other then that dont concentrate on the s, concentrate on that hoola hoop
No he couldn't have.
1. Too injury prone in his prime (not an overblown fact).
2. Body is not built sturdy enough for his style of play, which is why he was so injury prone and why his minutes were watched.
3. Gets gassed when required to play 35 or more minutes.
4. No post game, which is an important weapon a (franchise) perimeter player has needed since Jordan redefined the position in that regard.
Baloney. He was rarely hurt in his prime. Played over 82 games in his first 6 seasons in the league.
I don't know about his body not built sturdy enough, he wouldn't be still playing at 37 if that would be the case. Certainly not an athletic freak, etc.
We'll never know, but I think this is more on Pop than anything else. He certainly used to play 35+ minutes in the NT, playing games every other day, and he was finishing those games just fine.
This is legit. Although, if he would've been asked to lead a franchise, his development and role might've taken him towards that road. The Spurs obviously didn't need that with TD in the post.
I still would agree he wouldn't have been a franchise player, at least not for long. He came to the NBA basically in his peak, and had only a 4 year window... it's different from guys that came to the league early, like Dirk....
?
Manu has never played a full 82 game season in his career. And that's with him averaging less than 30 minutes per game.
He's not muscular enough to handle the constant contact his style of play demands (as the franchise player playing 35-40 minutes per game over an 82 game regular season + playoffs with the defense being primarily focused on you). Wade has a similar style, and look at the havoc it's wreaked on his body. Sure, Manu could've put on mass, but that would probably take away some of his attributes: speed, body coordination, even stamina.I don't know about his body not built sturdy enough, he wouldn't be still playing at 37 if that would be the case. Certainly not an athletic freak, etc.
But not in the NBA, which is more physical than FIBA.We'll never know, but I think this is more on Pop than anything else. He certainly used to play 35+ minutes in the NT, playing games every other day, and he was finishing those games just fine.
No, he couldn't have. I get that he's a local hero so Argentinians support him more than a German with a questionable past, but the fact is he was extremely lucky to play in a great system with great players and coach.
05 Manu >>>>>>
why are you leaving out playoff games? Especially since we were going deep in the playoffs almost every year. I do stand corrected though, I think in his 4th season he "only" played 78 games.
what other "injury prone" player averaged as many games? You can look in basketball-reference, but IIRC, he's up there in the list of active players with the most games in the league.
I don't disagree with this, plus Manu never had the freakish athleticism that Wade, Kobe were born with... which IMO, speaks volumes of how good he's been...
He certainly beat NBA players back then, more than once... but, it's certainly a small sample, and we will really never know, so it doesn't matter.
Manu could flourish on any team, regardless of system. He's one of the best at getting to the rim I've seen. Great shooter in his prime. Great playmaker when he isn't being re ed. He often destroyed American compe ion in International play (yes, FIBA
My issues with him are:
1. It's extremely difficult to build around a perimeter player who isn't some transcendent talent like Jordan, Lebron, Bird, etc. Manu isn't on the level, obviously.
2. Durability. He penetrates with no regard. I can't see his body holding up for 10 seasons/36mpg as the franchise player on any particular team.
3. No post game. Decent, at best, mid-range game. Any franchise level perimeter player absolutely needs to have those skills (at an elite level) in his arsenal.
Manu himself said he wouldn't have been able to handle big minutes consistently, so even he knows his durability couldn't sustain the type of heavy lifting required to be the man every night for the vast majority of his career.
You can't adequately judge him now, because the brain is filled with the compromised Manu. Even if you reach back for the prime Manu, the other waters it down and makes one want to flee the exercise.
& it should.
Because our thought experiment here is centered on the premise of whether or not Manu can be a franchise player, i.e., the number one player on the team. One of the most important attributes a franchise player can have is durability. Let's say Manu was drafted by a fringe playoff team and made his debut for them in the '03 season. From '03 to '13, he had 4 seasons in which he played less than 70 games, the lowest being 44 (and I'n not counting the lockout). Compare this to Lebron James, who has never had one season playing less than 70 games. Pre-Achilles Kobe, since becoming the Lakers' franchise guy in '05, has only had one season playing less than 70 games ('05, where they purposely sat him out to tank). I acknowledge the fact that Kobe was somewhat injury prone as the number 2 guy during the 3 peat years, but he also had a more aggressive style in those days, which illustrates my point of how hard it is to maintain durability playing like that.
what other "injury prone" player averaged as many games? You can look in basketball-reference, but IIRC, he's up there in the list of active players with the most games in the league.
I don't disagree with this, plus Manu never had the freakish athleticism that Wade, Kobe were born with... which IMO, speaks volumes of how good he's been...
He certainly beat NBA players back then, more than once... but, it's certainly a small sample, and we will really never know, so it doesn't matter.
Since Manu never developed a lethal mid range shot or post game, I don't see how he could hold up for multiple seasons being a team's centerpiece.
You do realize that Ginobili wasn't 37 forever right?
That's all. Already said I didn't think he could've been a franchise player... I just think the injury prone card gets thrown around without much basis... later in his career? maybe. But in his prime he was pretty healthy.
Why are we only limiting his prime to his first 6 seasons?
That's all. Already said I didn't think he could've been a franchise player... I just think the injury prone card gets thrown around without much basis... later in his career? maybe. But in his prime he was pretty healthy.
'08. Hobbled in the playoffs. Shut down by Sasha.
'09. Hurt the majority of the season. Missed the playoffs.
'11. All star year. Got hurt going into the playoffs.
And this with being on a minute restriction. He's an injury prone player. It's why Pop has kid gloved him for all these years.
T-Mac was a franchise player, as was Marbury, Francis, etc. You are being a bit square.
C'mon now.
They were. Just because it didn't pan out does not change the fact.
C'mon now.
Because that was his prime.
I said it in the first post I replied to you: he came to the league late, already blossomed in Europe, his "window" was about 4 years at his peak... that's actually probably the biggest knock to call him a "franchise player".
I would've been intrigued if he came over young, gone to the college game here... I'm sure they would've worked some PEDs on his body. But, we'll never know now.
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