dumbass americans protest a muslim conference in dallas

[Blake]

The thing is this....


All that religious was violent way back when, BUT....only the Muslims haven't figured out that was for those times, they think it STILL applies to todays times. To them Mohammad is still raiding caravans.

And....they really do buy into this paradise is giving their life up for the cause, Allah will reward them with virgins and the good life.

In todays world all we see is one stupid Muskim after another causing problems, that cannot be debated. Everywhere we see Islam in todays world we see violence, that is a fact.

You're an ignorant dumbass.

[Blake]

The Hebrew law here given by Ywhw is for his own people who lead astray. He has not told Israel to convert non Hebrews into the Law. If a sect wants to be re ed and keep their members in line, i'm not worried for my safety so much as theirs.

Goal post move, student. The point is that God orders believers to kill non-believers and other evil doers. Genocide is a common theme in the old testament.

If you're worried for your safety because of Islam, read the old testament and you'll your pants after you realize just how many Christian churches and synagogues there are compared to mosques.

[Ignignokt]

Goal post move, student. The point is that God orders believers to kill non-believers and other evil doers. Genocide is a common theme in the old testament.

that's not what the scripture says, it says to kill those Israelites who lead others astray. If you're not an israelite, why would you worry?

[Blake]

that's not what the scripture says, it says to kill those Israelites who lead others astray. If you're not an israelite, why would you worry?

You do realize the Old Testament is more than the few scriptures I posted from Deuteronomy, right?

I don't think you do. I should charge you a sophist rate for these lessons. I think i need more than a low level lol.

[Ignignokt]

You do realize the Old Testament is more than the few scriptures I posted from Deuteronomy, right?

I realize that nowhere in the old testament does Ywhw command Hebrews to convert non believers and spread Judaism. Every quote you have posted only highlights their civil law for their own people and not any evidence of an expansionary mindset other than expansion in the promised land.

Hence that's why it's called a promised land, and not the promised earth. The only time there's a commmandment to spread the ideas globaly is in the NT when the prophet already established his vision of a kingdom is spiritual as in Luke chapter 17. In matthew Jesus gives the Great Commission, but it is within the context of spreading the religion peacefully.

If you want to compare apples to apples, compare Jesus to Mohammed's life.

There's a reason why even though xtianity has had violent periods, it was able to reform itself while Islam is still living in the dark ages.

[Spurminator]

This point is invalidated.

It is? We have confirmed that Avante knows Muslims? My bad then.

The point is not whether some goal post shifting irrational metric should be met that not 100 percent of muslims behead non believers, the argument is about it's central scripture. If you want to have that argument which is concerned with historical and scriptural as well as current empirical evidence, then bring something. Else wise take your egalitarian a priori rationalizations based on no such reality that all religions are equal and hop like a merry got and tell it to the subscribers at Salon.com.

Ooh, big words! How impressive! But the "point" of the post I was responding to was quite clear.

Now, to your "point." Central scripture is subjective in every religion. If you talk to most modern American Muslims, a "virgin paradise for martyrs" is no more central to their beliefs than the image of Heaven as a "giant feast" is to Christians (Luke 13:29). Same with violence. But you and your flag-waving redneck brethren up in Garland have been conditioned to be scared of Muslims and the threat of Sharia Law. So while you have no experience whatsoever with modern Islam or the perspective of its followers, you claim to know their central beliefs because you read Internet stuff.

By the way, Salon is pretty good... You should take a break from the Sarah Palin Channel and World Net Daily and read it some time.

[Ignignokt]

It is? We have confirmed that Avante knows Muslims? My bad then.



Ooh, big words! How impressive! But I'm pretty sure the "point" of the post I was responding to was quite clear.

"Central scripture" is subjective in every religion. If you talk to most modern American Muslims, a "virgin paradise for martyrs" is no more central to their beliefs than the image of Heaven as a "giant feast" is to Christians (Luke 13:29). Same with violence. But you and your flag-waving redneck brethren up in Garland have been conditioned to be scared of Muslims and the threat of Sharia Law. So while you have no experience whatsoever with modern Islam or the perspective of its followers, you claim to know their central beliefs because you read Internet stuff.

By the way, Salon is pretty good... You should take a break from the Sarah Palin Channel and World Net Daily and read it some time.

Just like expected, your post was showered with nothing but pathos, equivocations, a priori reasoning, and no basis on evidence. It's also dishonest and a strawman tactic to dismiss the oppositions side by saying that any scripture can be interpeted literally. (As if we're making an argument from a purist position on determinism and denying free will) But if the nature of religion is based on a person's interpretation and not the dictates and nature of the religion, then it cannot be said that religion is the cause of all that's wrong in the world like many liberal apologist say, since when backed to defend Islam, it's not the religion that causes harm but the believers interpretation, (man qua man).

But like it's already been explained here, works and dictates have meaning. No one is gonna bet that society will subjectively interpret mein kampf as a manifesto for human rights for all. Under your logic, Mein Kampf can't be judged as a fascistic do ent since the believer can interepret it to his whim.

Keep posting. I wont stop you.

[Ignignokt]

By the way, Salon is pretty good... You should take a break from the Sarah Palin Channel and World Net Daily and read it some time.

This post illustrates the social conditioning of a good goy liberal. When discussing big ideas, he is limited to dishing out his tribal preprogrammed responses and buzzwords. His ability to attempt to attach Sarah Palin to his opposition signals to his own brethren that he's one of them and his opponent a bbaaaaadd baaaaahhh dd person.

[Blake]

I realize that nowhere in the old testament does Ywhw command Hebrews to convert non believers and spread Judaism.

Don't care about kicking the ball through those uprights. The goal post is this claim:

there is no universal command by Ywhw to slay infidels outside of texts where he gave specific instructions to the israelis on certain rival tribes.

There is most definitely a universal command(s) to kill the non-believer.

There's a reason why even though xtianity has had violent periods, it was able to reform itself while Islam is still living in the dark ages.

The reason is that people in Europe became educated and evolved. Religions don't reform themselves. People reform the religions.

[Blake]

This post illustrates the social conditioning of a good goy liberal. When discussing big ideas, he is limited to dishing out his tribal preprogrammed responses and buzzwords. His ability to attempt to attach Sarah Palin to his opposition signals to his own brethren that he's one of them and his opponent a bbaaaaadd baaaaahhh dd person.

That's ad hominem, young man.

[Ignignokt]

That's ad hominem, young man.

Sure, i have no problem diving in to that once the poster is incapable of actually going beyond red vs blue shilling.

[Ignignokt]

Don't care about kicking the ball through those uprights. The goal post is this claim:



There is most definitely a universal command(s) to kill the non-believer.



The reason is that people in Europe became educated and evolved. Religions don't reform themselves. People reform the religions.

All this is completely devoid of history.

1. People fear Islam not because it is harsh, but because it has an expansionist mindset which condones violence in order to achieve it.

2. You selectively took a quote from the passage and deliberately applying your bias to it. The prophet is giving commandments to the israelites on how to handle each other. From that same chapter. I will highlight for you since you have a hard time with comprehension.

If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14

Question, why would Ywhw care about pagans being led astray? Astray from what? they are already pagans. Furthermore the passage says "troublemakers have arisen among YOU". This pretty implicit. It wouldn't make sense for it to mean pagans and non believers. And it wouldn't make sense for it to mean territories outside of Israel when the prophet says:

If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 1

This implies the land that God promised abraham which is a piece int the middle east. It definitely doesnt apply to Deerborne Michigan.

3. It was actually the mass printing of the Bible delivered in sundry vernacular outside of Latin which allowed the people to question the authority of the Catholic Church. It wasn't because of Neil De Grasse Tyson you idiot, it was because of biblical scholars like Calvin and Luther.

[Blake]

Sure, i have no problem diving in to that once the poster is incapable of actually going beyond red vs blue shilling.

that's a problem if you want a real discussion. Shallow back and forth ad hominem does nothing to push the discussion forward, young man.

[Spurminator]

Just like expected, your post was showered with nothing but pathos, equivocations, a priori reasoning, and no basis on evidence. It's also dishonest and a strawman tactic to dismiss the oppositions side by saying that any scripture can be interpeted literally. (As if we're making an argument from a purist position on determinism and denying free will) But if the nature of religion is based on a person's interpretation and not the dictates and nature of the religion, then it cannot be said that religion is the cause of all that's wrong in the world like many liberal apologist say, since when backed to defend Islam, it's not the religion that causes harm but the believers interpretation, (man qua man).

But like it's already been explained here, works and dictates have meaning. No one is gonna bet that society will subjectively interpret mein kampf as a manifesto for human rights for all. Under your logic, Mein Kampf can't be judged as a fascistic do ent since the believer can interepret it to his whim.

Keep posting. I wont stop you.

It's not a strawman to bring up interpretation as an argument against the suggestion that all Muslims are radical Islamists. Knowledge about the modern practice of Islam based on experience with Muslims is the opposite of a priori reasoning. What evidence do you need, exactly, to support the argument that one can practice Islam without violence?

I didn't come here to rank religions. If I thought Islam was better than Christianity, or Mohamed a better man than Jesus Christ, I'd be a Muslim instead of a Christian. But if Muslims can freely interpret, as most of them do (especially in America, where the protests that are the subject of this thread happened), that their religion does not call for violence and pre-destiny, then what do you gain by standing with a thousand people to ostracize them? If your position is that it's noble to gather and harass people who are meeting to denounce violent acts committed in the name of their religion, based on your selective interpretation of their scripture and the actions of third-world radicals, then I absolutely dismiss that without apology.

But regardless of its nobility, I acknowledge and support your right to do so. As long as you understand it's my right to call you and your friends ignorant s.

[Spurminator]

This post illustrates the social conditioning of a good goy liberal. When discussing big ideas, he is limited to dishing out his tribal preprogrammed responses and buzzwords. His ability to attempt to attach Sarah Palin to his opposition signals to his own brethren that he's one of them and his opponent a bbaaaaadd baaaaahhh dd person.

Sure, i have no problem diving in to that once the poster is incapable of actually going beyond red vs blue shilling.

Bruh, you brought up Salon first.

My comparison of your position to the positions espoused by Palin and WND had nothing to do with their conservative/Right wing leanings. I'm just not aware of any intelligently written/sourced journalism on the web that takes the position that Muslims are fundamentally angry Jihadists because their scripture says so, and therefore we should be cautious of (and beligerent towards) all Muslims we encounter. Feel free to point me in the right direction.

[Blake]

All this is completely devoid of history.

1. People fear Islam not because it is harsh, but because it has an expansionist mindset which condones violence in order to achieve it.

irrelevant point not based on any real facts, but the Bible absolutely condones violence on a global scale, because God himself is a genocidal maniac as seen starting in Genesis all the way to Revelation.

2. You selectively took a quote from the passage and deliberately applying your bias to it.

I think it's pretty easy for anyone unbiased to make the conclusion that killing your family, friends and neighbors because of their non-beliefs is ed up. There's no way to spin it to make it ok.

Question, why would Ywhw care about pagans being led astray? Astray from what? they are already pagans. Furthermore the passage says "troublemakers have arisen among YOU". This pretty implicit. It wouldn't make sense for it to mean pagans and non believers. And it wouldn't make sense for it to mean territories outside of Israel when the prophet says:

Great question, young man.....why would an all powerful, all knowing being care if people believe in him or not?

It's a mystery but it's right there in scripture for Hebrews to kill the non-Hebrew. In fact, God was pissed off at king Saul for not completely wiping out the enemy.

This implies the land that God promised abraham which is a piece int the middle east. It definitely doesnt apply to Deerborne Michigan.

Crazy Bible fundamentalist would probably disagree.

3. It was actually the mass printing of the Bible delivered in sundry vernacular outside of Latin which allowed the people to question the authority of the Catholic Church. It wasn't because of Neil De Grasse Tyson you idiot, it was because of biblical scholars like Calvin and Luther.

Right, the masses in Europe became educated and evolved. Today many women in the middle east are still oppressed Bible style because much of the ignorant masses fall in line with the crazy Islamic fundamentalists

[Ignignokt]

Bruh, you brought up Salon first.

My comparison of your position to the positions espoused by Palin and WND had nothing to do with their conservative/Right wing leanings. I'm just not aware of any intelligently written/sourced journalism on the web that takes the position that Muslims are fundamentally angry Jihadists because their scripture says so, and therefore we should be cautious of (and beligerent towards) all Muslims we encounter. Feel free to point me in the right direction.

why would journalist be versed or experts on anything?

[Ignignokt]

irrelevant point not based on any real facts, but the Bible absolutely condones violence on a global scale, because God himself is a genocidal maniac as seen starting in Genesis all the way to Revelation.



I think it's pretty easy for anyone unbiased to make the conclusion that killing your family, friends and neighbors because of their non-beliefs is ed up. There's no way to spin it to make it ok.



Great question, young man.....why would an all powerful, all knowing being care if people believe in him or not?

It's a mystery but it's right there in scripture for Hebrews to kill the non-Hebrew. In fact, God was pissed off at king Saul for not completely wiping out the enemy.




Crazy Bible fundamentalist would probably disagree.



Right, the masses in Europe became educated and evolved. Today many women in the middle east are still oppressed Bible style because much of the ignorant masses fall in line with the crazy Islamic fundamentalists

Revelations doesn't compel the believer to genocide people in order to spread the word to bring forth the kingdom. Merely that a sovereign God will conspire to stir the world into armaggedon.It is the actions of a God and not his believers in Apocolypse. It actually tells the believers that the opposite of being victorious and murderous will occur, that they will be persecuted and martyrd. Once again, that's apples
to oranges.

[Ignignokt]

Also, i'm an athiest and don't feel the need to defend any God as to whether they are benevolent.

I'm only concerned with a do ent condoning global expansion through murder committed by it's adherents. Islam is and the bible isn't.

[m>s]

I don't care for all the dishonest arguments about muh non violent Muslims but If there're is any chance of this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-24-hours.html

Accidently sneaking into my country then it's enough for me to agree with banning the entire religion. Islam has no place in America until the war on terror is over and americans can safely travel to Saudi Arabia and Iraq holding hands signing kumbaya with all.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't care for all the dishonest arguments about muh non violent Muslims but If there're is any chance of this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-24-hours.html

Accidently sneaking into my country then it's enough for me to agree with banning the entire religion. Islam has no place in America until the war on terror is over and americans can safely travel to Saudi Arabia and Iraq holding hands signing kumbaya with all.

But you're leaving the US, What do you care?

[m>s]

It's a western problem not just an American problem. Have you already forgotten about the Paris attacks? And the threats against PEGIDA in Germany? I want Islam back in the sandbox where they belong.

[Ignignokt]

It's a western problem not just an American problem. Have you already forgotten about the Paris attacks? And the threats against PEGIDA in Germany? I want Islam back in the sandbox where they belong.

I wouldn't have addressed it. He's not looking to discuss.

[Avante]

The thing is, you obviously don't know any Muslims.

The thing is you oviously know nothing about Islam.

[ChumpDumper]

The thing is you oviously know nothing about Islam.

So which Muslims are decapitating people in the central valley?