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  1. #26
    Veteran Diego20's Avatar
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    He's a manu fan, not a Spurs fan. It's the only way to explain the level of re ation that would allow someone to overlook Manu's performance during the 2013 Finals.
    You are a Parker fan, that explains all..

    6-23 game 6
    3-12 game 7

    21-65 in losses..

  2. #27
    One of the most best jag's Avatar
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    6-23 FG is almost as bad if not worse than 8 turnovers.
    In one game? Just stop, son. stop

  3. #28
    One of the most best jag's Avatar
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    You are a Parker fan, that explains all..
    I'm actually a Spurs fan. I'm just not full blown re ed.

  4. #29
    Veteran Diego20's Avatar
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    In one game? Just stop, son. stop
    Go find someone else that had 6-23 in a NBA final game, just stop, stop.

    and 21-65 in losses.

  5. #30
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    I'm not jumping on the TP Bashing Bandwagon here, but I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

    Most reasonable Spurs fans will acknowledge that Parker raises his scoring in the playoffs, as evidenced. The problem is that raising your scoring doesn't always equate to raising your game. Look at ol' Chuckbrook who has put up 43 points per game for the last 4 games en route to 2-2 record.

    The problem with Parker is that his efficiency drops considerably in the playoffs, but he still tries to put the team on his back and lead them in scoring. This results in taking more shots at a worse clip, and it's debatable that is a detriment to the team as a whole.

    Parker's Field Goal Percentage, regular season vs. playoffs:

    Season FG% Playoff FG%
    2001-02 0.419 0.456
    2002-03 0.464 0.403
    2003-04 0.447 0.429
    2004-05 0.482 0.454
    2005-06 0.548 0.460
    2006-07 0.520 0.480
    2007-08 0.494 0.497
    2008-09 0.506 0.546
    2009-10 0.487 0.474
    2010-11 0.519 0.462
    2011-12 0.480 0.453
    2012-13 0.522 0.458
    2013-14 0.499 0.486
    Career - 0.493 0.463

    Only three seasons has Parker shot a better percentage in the playoffs than the regular season: his rookie year (02), and 08-09 when he was at his peak. Otherwise, his playoff FG% has been significantly lower pretty much across the board. Of course, part of this can be credited to the fact that defenses buckle down in the playoffs, the lane closes, and as others have stated, many teams game plan against Tony specifically as the "head of the snake". These things will inevitably lead to lower percentages, but the fact that these percentages correspond with high scoring numbers equates to one thing: Tony is forcing more shots.

    I appreciate Tony wanting to be a star and a leader for this team. But I also recognize that when he was forced to take a backseat on the scoring role due to injury last postseason and became more of a facilitator, the Spurs became one of the most beautiful basketball teams the world has seen. When he is healthy, Tony can be a great scorer, but the question for him has always been, and remains to be, where to find the balance.

  6. #31
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    He's a manu fan, not a Spurs fan. It's the only way to explain the level of re ation that would allow someone to overlook Manu's performance during the 2013 Finals.
    Just ignore Clipper Nation's Alt. It kills her when you pay no attention

  7. #32
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    Go find someone else that had 6-23 in a NBA final game, just stop, stop.
    Here are a dozen Finals performances that were worse:

    Russell Westbrook: 4/20 (6/21/12)
    Chris Bosh: 4/16 (6/2/11)
    Kobe Bryant: 6/24 (6/17/10)
    Tim Duncan: 4/15 (6/14/07)
    Lebron James: 4/16 (6/7/07)
    Jason Kidd: 4/17 (6/4/03)
    Kobe Bryant: 4/20 (6/16/00)
    Reggie Miller: 1/16 (6/7/00)
    Scottie Pippen: 2/16 (6/12/98)
    Michael Jordan: 5/19 (6/16/96)
    John Starks: 2/18 (6/22/94)
    Magic Johnson: 4/15 (6/16/88)

    There are dozens of other guys that did it...I'm just giving you the superstars that did...and a bunch of these guys did it multiple times.

  8. #33
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    I'm not jumping on the TP Bashing Bandwagon here, but I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

    Most reasonable Spurs fans will acknowledge that Parker raises his scoring in the playoffs, as evidenced. The problem is that raising your scoring doesn't always equate to raising your game. Look at ol' Chuckbrook who has put up 43 points per game for the last 4 games en route to 2-2 record.

    The problem with Parker is that his efficiency drops considerably in the playoffs, but he still tries to put the team on his back and lead them in scoring. This results in taking more shots at a worse clip, and it's debatable that is a detriment to the team as a whole.

    Parker's Field Goal Percentage, regular season vs. playoffs:

    Season FG% Playoff FG%
    2001-02 0.419 0.456
    2002-03 0.464 0.403
    2003-04 0.447 0.429
    2004-05 0.482 0.454
    2005-06 0.548 0.460
    2006-07 0.520 0.480
    2007-08 0.494 0.497
    2008-09 0.506 0.546
    2009-10 0.487 0.474
    2010-11 0.519 0.462
    2011-12 0.480 0.453
    2012-13 0.522 0.458
    2013-14 0.499 0.486
    Career - 0.493 0.463

    Only three seasons has Parker shot a better percentage in the playoffs than the regular season: his rookie year (02), and 08-09 when he was at his peak. Otherwise, his playoff FG% has been significantly lower pretty much across the board. Of course, part of this can be credited to the fact that defenses buckle down in the playoffs, the lane closes, and as others have stated, many teams game plan against Tony specifically as the "head of the snake". These things will inevitably lead to lower percentages, but the fact that these percentages correspond with high scoring numbers equates to one thing: Tony is forcing more shots.

    I appreciate Tony wanting to be a star and a leader for this team. But I also recognize that when he was forced to take a backseat on the scoring role due to injury last postseason and became more of a facilitator, the Spurs became one of the most beautiful basketball teams the world has seen. When he is healthy, Tony can be a great scorer, but the question for him has always been, and remains to be, where to find the balance.
    I agree with this post for the most part, except for where you said he was forced to take a backseat on the scoring role. If you mean that he scored less than he has in some playoff runs of his, yes. But he still led the team in scoring in the regular season, postseason, and Finals. There may not have been as big of a gap between his scoring and the rest of the team's as there was in the 2 years prior, but it's not like he took a backseat as in someone else actually scored more than him.

  9. #34
    Veteran Diego20's Avatar
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    Here are a dozen Finals performances that were worse:

    Russell Westbrook: 4/20 (6/21/12)
    Chris Bosh: 4/16 (6/2/11)
    Kobe Bryant: 6/24 (6/17/10)
    Tim Duncan: 4/15 (6/14/07)
    Lebron James: 4/16 (6/7/07)
    Jason Kidd: 4/17 (6/4/03)
    Kobe Bryant: 4/20 (6/16/00)
    Reggie Miller: 1/16 (6/7/00)
    Scottie Pippen: 2/16 (6/12/98)
    Michael Jordan: 5/19 (6/16/96)
    John Starks: 2/18 (6/22/94)
    Magic Johnson: 4/15 (6/16/88)

    There are dozens of other guys that did it...I'm just giving you the superstars that did...and a bunch of these guys did it multiple times.
    Only Kobe shot above 23 shots though.

    What about 9-35 in the last two games? 21-65 FG in losses?

  10. #35
    Veteran Diego20's Avatar
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    Just ignore Clipper Nation's Alt. It kills her when you pay no attention
    Clippers is from Argentina?

    Must be the only Clippers fan Argie..

  11. #36
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Enrique s getting obliterated

  12. #37
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    Only Kobe shot above 23 shots though.

    What about 9-35 in the last two games? 21-65 FG in losses?
    Hey, if 19 pts, 8 ast, with 0 turnovers, including one of the most clutch sequences in Finals history is a terrible Parker performance, then I'm not sure what else to say. Yah, he had a bad shooting night...and made up for it with a game-tying 3, a steal on the next play, and a go-ahead bucket with under a minute left.

    Last edited by SASdynasty!; 03-06-2015 at 12:45 PM.

  13. #38
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Manu's ups on the 2013 finals are greatly overrated or maybe not, maybe they are correctly rated but their ups mask the ups of other two Spurs that were just as costly as his. Pop's decisions (mainly not playing Boris enough) and Parker's dissapearing act in games 6 and 7.

  14. #39
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    Manu's ups on the 2013 finals are greatly overrated or maybe not, maybe they are correctly rated but their ups mask the ups of other two Spurs that were just as costly as his. Pop's decisions (mainly not playing Boris enough) and Parker's dissapearing act in games 6 and 7.
    Yah, but let's please keep Game 6 in perspective. Let's not act like Manu didn't disappear on a MUCH greater scale:

    Game 6
    Tony Parker: 19 pts, 8 ast, 0 TO, +8 overall
    Manu Ginobili: 9 pts, 3 ast, 8 TO, -21 overall

    Along with Manu going 1/5 for 5 pts and -22 in Game 4.
    Or Manu going for 7 pts in Game 3.
    Or Manu going 2/6 for 5 pts and 3 TOs and -23 in Game 2.

    Let's please not compare Parker and Ginobili's 2013 Finals...Manu "disappeared" for 4 games in that series and literally put up more points as Parker ONE time.
    Last edited by SASdynasty!; 03-06-2015 at 12:57 PM.

  15. #40
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Yah, but let's please keep Game 6 in perspective. Let's not act like Manu didn't disappear on a MUCH greater scale:

    Game 6
    Tony Parker: 19 pts, 8 ast, 0 TO, +8 overall
    Manu Ginobili: 9 pts, 3 ast, 8 TO, -21 overall
    What bothers me most about Tony that game was how he started chucking up double digits at the end of the 3rd/start of the 4th. He was gunning for that finals MVP and let the Heat back in the game.

  16. #41
    Love and Basketball MateoNeygro's Avatar
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    wtf is with this board? Why does everyone have to hate on either Manu or Parker? Can you not root for both? I mean jesus- ing-christ, it's getting so old. The Spurs need them both and I sincerely hope that they both play well every game. Sure I get frustrated but I sure as don't get on this board to bash one or the other. I honestly don't understand this new breed of "fan". If you are a Spur I'm a fan. If they play poorly I criticize a little but I move on. Both have played incredibly well and both have sucked ass. It's human.

  17. #42
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    What bothers me most about Tony that game was how he started chucking up double digits at the end of the 3rd/start of the 4th. He was gunning for that finals MVP and let the Heat back in the game.
    I love revisionist history. In the last 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter, Parker went 1/3 (the last shot being at the buzzer) and drew a charge...his only misses coming after Allen hits him in the face. Then, he WASN'T EVEN IN THE GAME to start the 4th quarter...he didn't even come in until 5 almost 5 minutes into the 4th, when the Spurs 10 point lead (when Parker left at the end of the third) was cut down to 3. Parker's FIRST SHOT in the 4th quarter came with 3:33 left in the game. Parker went 2/4 in the 4th for 5 points (the tying 3 and the go-ahead 2).

  18. #43
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I love revisionist history. In the last 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter, Parker went 1/3 (the last shot being at the buzzer) and drew a charge...his only misses coming after Allen hits him in the face. Then, he WASN'T EVEN IN THE GAME to start the 4th quarter...he didn't even come in until 5 almost 5 minutes into the 4th, when the Spurs 10 point lead (when Parker left at the end of the third) was cut down to 3. Parker's FIRST SHOT in the 4th quarter came with 3:33 left in the game. Parker went 2/4 in the 4th for 5 points (the tying 3 and the go-ahead 2).
    http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?ga...67338&period=3

    Parker went 1 of 5 to end the 3rd but that's not the whole story, I remember vividly screaming at the TV for Parker to stop chucking and continuing with the ball movement that got us there.

  19. #44
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    wtf is with this board? Why does everyone have to hate on either Manu or Parker? Can you not root for both? I mean jesus- ing-christ, it's getting so old. The Spurs need them both and I sincerely hope that they both play well every game. Sure I get frustrated but I sure as don't get on this board to bash one or the other. I honestly don't understand this new breed of "fan". If you are a Spur I'm a fan. If they play poorly I criticize a little but I move on. Both have played incredibly well and both have sucked ass. It's human.
    It's just a response to the ridiculous Parker bashing and baseless accusations that I've been seeing for like 2 years on this thread (just got approved to post like yesterday). I'm in complete agreement with you that they are both great players and have both had bad series, but when people just make things up like "Parker was gunning for FMVP at the beginning of the 4th quarter in G6" when he wasn't even in the game, it gets ridiculous and begs to be corrected. Just go buy the game on iTunes or whatever if you haven't seen it in a while so you can watch it again... Then sometimes people try to lay all the blame on one player and the only way to show them how silly that is is to simply point out another player that was much worse. It's not that Manu isn't great...he is, and he's been a huge part of the les...but each player carries weight and Ginobili happened to have his only career 8-TO game that day. Parker had one of his worst shooting performances in the playoffs that day. Duncan went 0-5 for 0 pts in the 4th quarter and overtime, which is very unlike him to close out a championship. Danny Green went 1-7 and Gary Neal went 2-7 that day. Pop made what in hindsight looks like a coaching mistake in not having your best rebounder in at the end of regulation or not calling timeout at the end of overtime to run a play to win the championship, which led to us not even getting a shot at the rim. Lots of mistakes to point to, so I'm with you...it definitely doesn't all fall on one player or on Pop. Losing is a team effort, just like winning.

  20. #45
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    Duncan went 0-4 in a 5 minute stretch in the 4TH quarter...was he gunning for FMVP as well?

  21. #46
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I'm not jumping on the TP Bashing Bandwagon here, but I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

    Most reasonable Spurs fans will acknowledge that Parker raises his scoring in the playoffs, as evidenced. The problem is that raising your scoring doesn't always equate to raising your game. Look at ol' Chuckbrook who has put up 43 points per game for the last 4 games en route to 2-2 record.

    The problem with Parker is that his efficiency drops considerably in the playoffs, but he still tries to put the team on his back and lead them in scoring. This results in taking more shots at a worse clip, and it's debatable that is a detriment to the team as a whole.

    Parker's Field Goal Percentage, regular season vs. playoffs:

    Season FG% Playoff FG%
    2001-02 0.419 0.456
    2002-03 0.464 0.403
    2003-04 0.447 0.429
    2004-05 0.482 0.454
    2005-06 0.548 0.460
    2006-07 0.520 0.480
    2007-08 0.494 0.497
    2008-09 0.506 0.546
    2009-10 0.487 0.474
    2010-11 0.519 0.462
    2011-12 0.480 0.453
    2012-13 0.522 0.458
    2013-14 0.499 0.486
    Career - 0.493 0.463

    Only three seasons has Parker shot a better percentage in the playoffs than the regular season: his rookie year (02), and 08-09 when he was at his peak. Otherwise, his playoff FG% has been significantly lower pretty much across the board. Of course, part of this can be credited to the fact that defenses buckle down in the playoffs, the lane closes, and as others have stated, many teams game plan against Tony specifically as the "head of the snake". These things will inevitably lead to lower percentages, but the fact that these percentages correspond with high scoring numbers equates to one thing: Tony is forcing more shots.

    I appreciate Tony wanting to be a star and a leader for this team. But I also recognize that when he was forced to take a backseat on the scoring role due to injury last postseason and became more of a facilitator, the Spurs became one of the most beautiful basketball teams the world has seen. When he is healthy, Tony can be a great scorer, but the question for him has always been, and remains to be, where to find the balance.
    Example of a Manu hater here... you forget that Tony was injured most of those times.

    Now let's talk about RIP Manu 2009-2013...

  22. #47
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Duncan went 0-4 in a 5 minute stretch in the 4TH quarter...was he gunning for FMVP as well?
    Nope, that's why you watch the games.

  23. #48
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Anybody remembers if Manu pulled the injury excuse for the 2013 Finals, tbh?

  24. #49
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    wtf is with this board? Why does everyone have to hate on either Manu or Parker? Can you not root for both? I mean jesus- ing-christ, it's getting so old. The Spurs need them both and I sincerely hope that they both play well every game. Sure I get frustrated but I sure as don't get on this board to bash one or the other. I honestly don't understand this new breed of "fan". If you are a Spur I'm a fan. If they play poorly I criticize a little but I move on. Both have played incredibly well and both have sucked ass. It's human.
    Because people think it's edgy to act like 12 year olds and troll the forum. Period. Sure there are SOME fans who don't particularly care for Manu, and some who actually don't like Parker. But most are either trying to stroke their epeen on a basketball forum, or aren't actually Spurs fans.

  25. #50
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    Nope, that's why you watch the games.
    Convenient that that doesn't apply there.

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