Any all time great player must have MVP + FMVP, anyone without both can not make top 10 all-time list and won't take long for them to be excluded from top 20 all-time list.
People will not remember what actually happened, they will just count the hardware. They will look at Duncan's last two rings and say he wasn't the first option on these teams.
You look up a player's wiki page, first three categories are rings, finals MVP and MVP.
Timmy has 2 MVP, 3 FMVP, and 5 rings, or 10 points total.
LeBron will have 4 MVP, 3 FMVP and 3 rings, also 10 points. Most consider MVP to say more about an all-time great player as an individual than a ring without FMVP attached. Tie breaker will likely go to LeBron as 4 MVP in 5 years just says a lot about a player's sheer dominance. Heat went from three straight NBA finals to missing playoffs without him. Cavs went from three #1 lottery picks to NBA finals with him despite injuries to two of the big three! All in a single season!
I consider 2003 Duncan's supporting cast to be the weakest championship team ever, 2003 post season win share was the highest ever:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._season_p.html
But LeBron without Love/Irving making NBA finals and winning it against a 67-win team would be a comparable feat. Heck I think 15 Cavs without LeBron, Love, just a hobbled Irving is weaker than 03 Spurs without Duncan. Heck if he can take this team to the NBA finals, I doubt Cavs roster can get any worse than this, I see LeBron, if healthy making the NBA finals 8 years in a row. He needs 1 ring + 1 FMVP to tie/exceed Duncan. He needs 2 rings + 2 FMVP to tie/exceed Kareem/Magic. If he allows assistant coach David Blatt (a great, great coach getting a lot of value of of the current Cavs roster) to take over, he has a 10% chance of beating Jordan.
Let's face it that Shaq/Kobe team only won 50 games. We saw what happened to the Spurs this season after one WCF and two NBA finals. That 03 Lakers team was just too tired to compete outside of Shaq/Kobe.
So please Warriors, I am counting on you!
Last edited by hitmantb; 05-23-2015 at 01:04 AM.
Yet another reason to hate Enrique. That got saw a chance at personal glory when he saw Boobie and took a FMVP that rightfully belongs to Timmy. French got lessened our GOAT's legacy and singlehandedly caused the fall of our dynasty. What a POS.
Not that he isn't a Top 5 GOAT already but 5 rings, 4 FMVPs, 2 MVPs would've looked much nicer tbh.
LeBron is the GOAT if he beats the historic Warriors with a mediocre supporting cast, tbh..there's virtually no chance that they will beat the Warriors, though, they're going to lose in 5, I would be surprised if it goes 6..
The Cavs offense isn't sustainable against legit teams, let alone a dominant team like the Warriors that has 3 really good(elite, in Green's case) defenders to throw at James..
Nah, not yet.
One of the primary reasons MJ is considered the GOAT is going 6/6 in the finals with FMVP honors each time. Whether we like it or not, the meta-storyline of the history of the NBA is written by both casual and hardcore fans. Not everyone tunes in for non-finals basketball, but you can be sure everyone's got their eye on the finals. In some sense, the Finals is the ultimate expression of the sport of basketball. What is done in the finals is written in the pages of basketball history in a way no other level of play is. To lose in the finals is to lose on a massive stage with everyone watching. We can't ignore the elephant in the room. 2011 was really harmful to Lebron's legacy. Losing the way he did hurts him when compared to players who never had a horrible, nightmarishly bad finals. Losing once might be an aberration. Losing twice might be tough luck. Losing three times (with one as bad as 2011) is seen as a pattern that pushes him out of the realm of GOAT discussion. 2011 (combined with the more excusable losses 2014 and 2007) has created an enormous obstacle to ever reaching parity with MJ in the GOAT discussion — a discussion fueled by casual fans as well as hardcore fans.
The same logic that prevents Lebron from being considered the GOAT is the logic that prevents him form being considered Tim's equal right now. A below .500 finals record (2/5) with a finals as bad as 2011 is something that can only be overcome by winning more les. And I guarantee you that Lebron knows this and will spend the rest of his career trying to overcome it. For NBA players who already have all they could want in terms of wealth, what matters most is respect. Respect is earned in the NBA Finals, with a series MVP in hand.
They will lose to the Warriors, agreed on that. I don't see them winning two games.
Its such a discount to play in the East
All thanks to pop...
Timmy has 2 MVP, 3 FMVP, and 5 rings, or 10 points total.
LeBron will have 4 MVP, 3 FMVP and 3 rings, also 10 points.
So a flatulent Regular Season MVP has the same value than a ring?
The whole FMVP is overrated too, one player doesnt win championships just by himself wtf is that? oh yes media bull .
And thats just what Leturd is, also playing for the East conference is a big negative Spurs would have 9 rings playing in that ty conference, one West ring equals 3 East rings.
Comparing Built vs Bought
Lol, now the truth comes out. You guys need Tony Parker to be bad to prop up Duncan, so you try and create the narrative.
If he wins, it puts him in position to pass Duncan and Kobe by next year
Warriors in 4 or 5
Cleveland is playing tough. Guys know their roles and are giving huge efforts. Mozgav, Thompson, and that Fckn wild Australian point are playing very tough. Throw in Smith, and Lebron can have a bad night in the week East. They are playing ugly winning basketball, it's perfect for the teams they face. Atlanta has completely stopped moving the ball, desperation is fueling individual stupidity.
And we must always remember the Spurs and Duncan broke the Heat's and Lebron's hope.
Along with adding tinder to the Kobe/Shaquille feud, this is most pleasing, busting teams up.
If LeBron wins he's only at 3 rings, Timmy has 5 and is 2-1 against him in the Finals (with LeBron's only win coming by the narrowest of margins). LeBron also has declined precipitously on defense in recent years, while Timmy is still among the league's best. While I agree that the casual masses, who only know players from ESPN highlight plays, Q scores, or commercials and those who always view the current leader as "the best ever" will deem LeBron over Timmy (if they don't already), I think those that study basketball will admit he's got a ways to go to pass Duncan.
All because Matt Barnes punked our SF with Aspergers
Sadly, when all is said and done, media historians will only be counting rings and times in the championship series. LeBron's a great player and all, but when you basically have a bye to the Eastern Conference finals legacy wise, it really is unfair to star players in the West.
lebron is the greatest of all time if the cavs beat the warriors?
Post game pics scott.
Who cares? People who are going to exalt Lebron over Duncan are going to do that even if Lebron loses a 2-0 lead to a depleted Atlanta team. The narrative for Lebron will always excuse his failures and exaggerate his successes because that's the way the guy is covered.
You might have just taken the stupid trophy from ducks and DMC, bro. Nice job.
op = royal
i sort of agree
Guy can't stand the fact that TP has a FMVP...2007 is seen as a bad year in his eyes.
Lebron and Duncan are very different players with different skills. Comparing them is kind of pointless.
As much as I kind of dislike him, Lebron is a force and has an effect on the game like no other. It's hard to tell how much he's benefitted from playing his whole career in d conference which is almost like the minor leagues.
Better questions is who will be cheering for Lebron in the Finals? I will be. If he somehow beats the Warriors...
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