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  1. #51
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    you score 10 but give up 10 you really had no impact on the game
    how about when you score 0 and give up 20?

  2. #52
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    I'd much rather have Mills' shooting. You can play him with Parker since he can hit the three and when Parker is on the bench you can have Diaw and possibly Kyle Anderson running a lot of the offense. Plus Mills is on a cheap contract.

  3. #53
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    how exactly did mills show up? he hit shots off then bench while getting destroyed on d. nothing special about that. he is supposed to be a pg yet had 8 total assist in 7 games manu is the backup SG and had 3 games with 6 assist and 1 with 7
    that's all there is to it.

  4. #54
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    No, he's supposed to be a scoring PG, not a facilitating PG. It's sad that you dont understand his role.

    Second, please show me, and everyone else, your "getting destroyed on d." He had .1 lower DWS than danny, who you claim to be an elite defender.

    Mills had the highest TS and 3% on the team. Mills had the second highest PER. He had the highest WS/48. He had the second highest OWS. Highest ORat. He was a 109 Drating and Green was a 107. Not to mention he, like Marco, shot and made HUGE SHOTS when they mattered. To claim that Mills, or Marco didnt show up is ignorant. To throw out how manu had more assists than anyone is also equally as ignorant.
    so he's an undersized SG who plays terrible defense? got it

  5. #55
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    so he's an undersized SG who plays terrible defense? got it
    you must not be able to read.

  6. #56
    Veteran Sean Cagney's Avatar
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    you do understand that while mills was hitting shots it was his lack of defense that had us down in the first place, right? mills is nothing special. other than hitting shots he doesn't do anything else particularity well. he's a smaller gary neal and our own mini jamal crawford. he is a chucker. every now and then he hits some crowd pleasing 3s but a lot of the times we are down because of his terrible defense. austin rivers absolutely murdered mills. you're telling me cojo (a solid proven defender) wouldnt of done a better job? our offense was fine. go back and check the scores, the spurs scored plenty even with green/parker/tiago bricking. it was lack of defense that cost us the series, not a lack of offense.
    No, Mills was on the bench and the starters got them down 15 or so early, he came in and hit some threes and pulled them back in it so it was not his D that got them down int he first place. The starters were pathetic a few games and he came in there and hit some threes to get them out of a hole. I don't think Cojo is anything special sides some decent D, he stalls the O as many have said when he comes in. Mills role is to score in bundles and he did that well in the finals last year and first round this year, what has Cojo done before in the playoffs? Sure Mills is not good at D, we all know that. Gary Neal didn't hit the threes at the consistency Mills has in the playoffs, he would be on one game and then off three in a row, plus his D was even worse believe it or not. Crawford is a chucker but man his shot can be sweet since you mention him, scores in bundles as well when hot.

    Austin Rivers murdered everyone that one game sadly, not just Mills. Cojo you claim a solid defender then Mills is a proven shooter except he has done it in the finals before, Cojo the regular season as he doesn't get minutes in the playoffs so how is he proven? What stage? Cojo would have done better on D sure but what about when they were behind and the 2nd unit was out there? He would not provide the outside shot the others were sorely lacking in that series and Mills provided, so he brings D and no O to the table and others are missing shots as well, who does the scoring?

    Spurs 2nd unit did well in a few of those games that series, Beli and Mills leading the bunch off the bench in scoring and did their job. I disagree on lack of offense since everyone outside of Kawhi out there shot horribly, they needed outside shooting and he brought that while others were missing everything in sight. Corey would not have changed that series, none.

  7. #57
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    Just realizing mills didnt qualify for list... maybe someone finds it useful. But corey was statistically the 14th best defensive PG last year. Almost equal with chris paul

  8. #58
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    No, Mills was on the bench and the starters got them down 15 or so early, he came in and hit some threes and pulled them back in it so it was not his D that got them down int he first place. The starters were pathetic a few games and he came in there and hit some threes to get them out of a hole. I don't think Cojo is anything special sides some decent D, he stalls the O as many have said when he comes in. Mills role is to score in bundles and he did that well in the finals last year and first round this year, what has Cojo done before in the playoffs? Sure Mills is not good at D, we all know that. Gary Neal didn't hit the threes at the consistency Mills has in the playoffs, he would be on one game and then off three in a row, plus his D was even worse believe it or not. Crawford is a chucker but man his shot can be sweet since you mention him, scores in bundles as well when hot.

    Austin Rivers murdered everyone that one game sadly, not just Mills. Cojo you claim a solid defender then Mills is a proven shooter except he has done it in the finals before, Cojo the regular season as he doesn't get minutes in the playoffs so how is he proven? What stage? Cojo would have done better on D sure but what about when they were behind and the 2nd unit was out there? He would not provide the outside shot the others were sorely lacking in that series and Mills provided, so he brings D and no O to the table and others are missing shots as well, who does the scoring?

    Spurs 2nd unit did well in a few of those games that series, Beli and Mills leading the bunch off the bench in scoring and did their job. I disagree on lack of offense since everyone outside of Kawhi out there shot horribly, they needed outside shooting and he brought that while others were missing everything in sight. Corey would not have changed that series, none.
    spurs scored over 100 in 4 or 5 games iirc. offense was not a problem. the problem was defense. terrible defense from our starting pg and backup pg. how is 8 total assist in 7 games played good pg play? it isn't. cojo plays solid defense and most definitely would of made rivers and cp3 work harder. mills is an undersized sg who plays terrible defense.

  9. #59
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    the spurs are also better offensively with cojo on the floor. look it up.

  10. #60
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    spurs scored over 100 in 4 or 5 games iirc. offense was not a problem. the problem was defense. terrible defense from our starting pg and backup pg. how is 8 total assist in 7 games played good pg play? it isn't. cojo plays solid defense and most definitely would of made rivers and cp3 work harder. mills is an undersized sg who plays terrible defense.
    I disagree on him changing the series and think Mills did fine and was one of the few hitting shots. Corey to me just is not that good, not really a big fan despite him being good on D the sample size is not big enough for me to think he would have made a difference. Maybe if he gets some playoff games under his belt I will change my mind there. He is okay I guess but I don't like when he is out there running the O.
    the spurs are also better offensively with cojo on the floor. look it up.
    So you think of Corey starts full time at the PG they are a better team? Offensively etc.?

  11. #61
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    No, Mills was on the bench and the starters got them down 15 or so early, he came in and hit some threes and pulled them back in it so it was not his D that got them down int he first place. The starters were pathetic a few games and he came in there and hit some threes to get them out of a hole. I don't think Cojo is anything special sides some decent D, he stalls the O as many have said when he comes in. Mills role is to score in bundles and he did that well in the finals last year and first round this year, what has Cojo done before in the playoffs? Sure Mills is not good at D, we all know that. Gary Neal didn't hit the threes at the consistency Mills has in the playoffs, he would be on one game and then off three in a row, plus his D was even worse believe it or not. Crawford is a chucker but man his shot can be sweet since you mention him, scores in bundles as well when hot.

    Austin Rivers murdered everyone that one game sadly, not just Mills. Cojo you claim a solid defender then Mills is a proven shooter except he has done it in the finals before, Cojo the regular season as he doesn't get minutes in the playoffs so how is he proven? What stage? Cojo would have done better on D sure but what about when they were behind and the 2nd unit was out there? He would not provide the outside shot the others were sorely lacking in that series and Mills provided, so he brings D and no O to the table and others are missing shots as well, who does the scoring?

    Spurs 2nd unit did well in a few of those games that series, Beli and Mills leading the bunch off the bench in scoring and did their job. I disagree on lack of offense since everyone outside of Kawhi out there shot horribly, they needed outside shooting and he brought that while others were missing everything in sight. Corey would not have changed that series, none.
    I would agree with everything you say, except the last sentence. I believe, that if Tony was truly injured, and even if he wasn't, pop should have replaced many of his minutes with Joseph. I believe, in that instance, Joseph could have changed the series. Tony stunk the joint up. It's almost inexcusable that pop didnt give joseph minutes when tony was complaining of injury OR due to his poor play. Joseph is a backup PG, who was in a contract year. Why not see what you have in Joseph. Right now, Pop has to make a decision about a backup PG who he really doesnt know can cut full time playoff duties. Stupid rotations caught up with pop this year, but this is a typical gregg error.

  12. #62
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    I disagree on him changing the series and think Mills did fine and was one of the few hitting shots. Corey to me just is not that good, not really a big fan despite him being good on D the sample size is not big enough for me to think he would have made a difference. Maybe if he gets some playoff games under his belt I will change my mind there. He is okay I guess but I don't like when he is out there running the O.
    the spurs offense is better with cojo on the floor though. and if he isn't proven it's because pop for some unknown reason hasn't given him a chance.






    Except here we are, at Game 82, and the Spurs still haven't settled on their backup point guard. Since Dec. 28, when Patty Mills returned from rehabbing off-season rotator cuff surgery, he's played 791 minutes, to Cory Joseph's 708. Mills was given every chance to win the job in March so that the Spurs could return to the rotation they won the championship with, but he shot so poorly, 32.9 percent for the month, that Gregg Popovich had no choice but go back to Joseph in April.
    If you go by the individual numbers, it's really no contest. Joseph is shooting 50.5 percent, to Mills' 37.2. He's even out-shooting him from deep, 36.4 percent (better than Leonard, Ginobili and Diaw as well) to 33.7 percent for Mills. Joseph gets far more rebounds, more assists, is four times as likely to block a shot and has almost identical steal and turnover rates to his Australian mate. He's bigger, stronger and the scrappier defender. Joseph has a 15.6 PER to Mills' 12.5, and his Win Shares Per 48 is .152 to Mills' .079.
    The advance team metrics are even more damning for Mills. He has the worst net rating among the regulars, at -3.0, according to RealGM.com. It's actually closer to -4 according to my favorite stats database and yours, basketball-reference.com. Ironically, while Joseph has a slightly better defensive rating than Mills according to those sites, where he really pulls away is in offensive rating. It's 115.2 for Joseph to 101.6 for Mills. (I really have no idea what's up with NBA.com's numbers, where Mills is a defensive superstar.)


    http://www.poundingtherock.com/2015/...-play-playoffs

  13. #63
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    Mills and beli saved several games for SA this post-season when cha-boy Green was shooting 30% from the floor. Look up the playoff stats, not the damn regular season garbage.

  14. #64
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    Just realizing mills didnt qualify for list... maybe someone finds it useful. But corey was statistically the 14th best defensive PG last year. Almost equal with chris paul
    Parker is a better defender than Conley and Elfrid Payton, dude does it all.

  15. #65
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    I would agree with everything you say, except the last sentence. I believe, that if Tony was truly injured, and even if he wasn't, pop should have replaced many of his minutes with Joseph. I believe, in that instance, Joseph could have changed the series. Tony stunk the joint up. It's almost inexcusable that pop didnt give joseph minutes when tony was complaining of injury OR due to his poor play. Joseph is a backup PG, who was in a contract year. Why not see what you have in Joseph. Right now, Pop has to make a decision about a backup PG who he really doesnt know can cut full time playoff duties. Stupid rotations caught up with pop this year, but this is a typical gregg error.
    Tony, agreed there. You do not go take the minutes away from the guy off the bench though who is hot like Patty, you can play both but you have to keep Mills in there when he is shooting that hot. Tony was atrocious that series, do not get me started on that. I can agree on what you said. Rob is talking about take Patty's minutes away and giving them to Corey, which would have been a big mistake IMO the way he was shooting.
    Mills and beli saved several games for SA this post-season when cha-boy Green was shooting 30% from the floor. Look up the playoff stats, not the damn regular season garbage.
    I agree on this here, that is what I have been saying to him but he keeps bringing up regular season. I don't see why he wanted Patty taken out of the game when he was one of the few who could actually keep you in a game hitting that three ball.

  16. #66
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    how exactly did mills show up? he hit shots off then bench while getting destroyed on d. nothing special about that. he is supposed to be a pg yet had 8 total assist in 7 games manu is the backup SG and had 3 games with 6 assist and 1 with 7
    2015 Playoffs

    Age is Years-Days · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK · ?

    Rk G Date Age Tm Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS GmSc +/- DFS
    1 1 2015-04-19 26-251 SAS @ LAC L (-15) 0 10:37 3 5 .600 3 4 .750 0 0 1 1 2 1 0 0 1 2 9 6.6 +15 14.0
    2 2 2015-04-22 26-254 SAS @ LAC W (+4) 0 19:05 5 9 .556 2 5 .400 6 6 1.000 1 2 3 1 1 0 0 4 18 15.1 +4 26.3
    3 3 2015-04-24 26-256 SAS LAC W (+27) 0 14:39 2 5 .400 2 4 .500 0 0 1 2 3 0 0 0 0 1 6 4.2 +7 10.8
    4 4 2015-04-26 26-258 SAS LAC L (-9) 0 19:49 4 10 .400 2 5 .400 4 4 1.000 0 3 3 2 0 0 1 3 14 8.7 -4 21.3
    5 5 2015-04-28 26-260 SAS @ LAC W (+4) 0 14:35 4 5 .800 4 4 1.000 1 1 1.000 0 4 4 0 0 0 2 4 13 8.7 +3 19.0
    6 6 2015-04-30 26-262 SAS LAC L (-6) 0 17:51 1 2 .500 1 2 .500 2 2 1.000 0 3 3 3 0 0 1 1 5 5.6 +9 13.3
    7 7 2015-05-02 26-264 SAS @ LAC L (-2) 0 15:37 2 6 .333 2 4 .500 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 6 5.0 +4 11.8


    The +- shows mills wasn't exactly giving up a much as he was scoring while he is in there.

    I do agree he's not exactly a top notch defender but he isn't anywhere close to as bad as he was in portland.
    Right now on Defense his rating would be adequate.

  17. #67
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    A few things Rivers is both big enough and smart enough to bully Mills by backing him down and shooting over him Thats a limitation that some players have, he did the same with Parker a couple of times as well. Parker played alot of minutes for someone who was injured/banged up.

    I do agree that Mills isn't an Ideal back-up point guard, I also agree that neither is Joseph. The pounding the rock article from March/April is useless. Mills took a awhile to regain his shot after major shoulder surgery so Joseph got some extra minutes..... Is pretty much the whole takeaway from that piece.

  18. #68
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    Joseph faded in the playoffs. He looked lost and scared. Truth is, he looked lost and scared after Parker and Mills came back from injuries. Joseph looked good the first half of the season when the Spurs were sucking.

  19. #69
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    Mills >>> CoJo, and it's not even close.

  20. #70
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    the spurs offense is better with cojo on the floor though. and if he isn't proven it's because pop for some unknown reason hasn't given him a chance.






    Except here we are, at Game 82, and the Spurs still haven't settled on their backup point guard. Since Dec. 28, when Patty Mills returned from rehabbing off-season rotator cuff surgery, he's played 791 minutes, to Cory Joseph's 708. Mills was given every chance to win the job in March so that the Spurs could return to the rotation they won the championship with, but he shot so poorly, 32.9 percent for the month, that Gregg Popovich had no choice but go back to Joseph in April.
    If you go by the individual numbers, it's really no contest. Joseph is shooting 50.5 percent, to Mills' 37.2. He's even out-shooting him from deep, 36.4 percent (better than Leonard, Ginobili and Diaw as well) to 33.7 percent for Mills. Joseph gets far more rebounds, more assists, is four times as likely to block a shot and has almost identical steal and turnover rates to his Australian mate. He's bigger, stronger and the scrappier defender. Joseph has a 15.6 PER to Mills' 12.5, and his Win Shares Per 48 is .152 to Mills' .079.
    The advance team metrics are even more damning for Mills. He has the worst net rating among the regulars, at -3.0, according to RealGM.com. It's actually closer to -4 according to my favorite stats database and yours, basketball-reference.com. Ironically, while Joseph has a slightly better defensive rating than Mills according to those sites, where he really pulls away is in offensive rating. It's 115.2 for Joseph to 101.6 for Mills. (I really have no idea what's up with NBA.com's numbers, where Mills is a defensive superstar.)


    http://www.poundingtherock.com/2015/...-play-playoffs




    Just realizing mills didnt qualify for list... maybe someone finds it useful. But corey was statistically the 14th best defensive PG last year. Almost equal with chris paul
    stats don't lie. that's all there is to it.

  21. #71
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    stats don't lie. that's all there is to it.
    Bringing up stats from the year before or the regular season has no bearing on who is better at the moment.

    What your doing is saying David Robinson would be better than Tiago now, because Robinson had better stats in 1993.

  22. #72
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    sure what? Im not sure how you could disagree. Do you want to look at DWS or OWS in the playoffs this year? Points scored?
    sure that you're trolling.

  23. #73
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    Mills >>> CoJo, and it's not even close.

  24. #74
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    sure that you're trolling.
    killer avatar

  25. #75
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    Ideally, we should keep both! I'd rather have Joseph + Mills than Parker + either one.

    I like the idea of starting Joseph and bringing Mills off the bench (and closing games). That would give us an interesting contrast between a pass-first defensive PG for the starting unit (devastating along with Leonard, Green, Duncan, and Splitter) and a shoot-first clutch scoring PG off the bench. What more could you want?

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