Cosmic - if a diplomatic solution that allows Iran to keep its civilian nuclear programme is such a terrible mistake, why did the Bush administration (specifically Condi Rice) say the following:
Source: http://2001-2009.state.gov/secretary/rm/2006/67088.htmThe Iranian people believe they have the right to civil nuclear energy. We acknowledge that right. Yet the international agreements Iran has signed make clear that Iran's exercise of that right must conform with its commitments. In view of its previous violations of its commitments and the secret nuclear program it undertook, the Iranian regime must persuasively demonstrate that it has permanently abandoned its quest for nuclear weapons.
The benefits of this second path for the Iranian people would go beyond civil nuclear energy, and could include progressively greater economic cooperation.
The United States will actively support these benefits both publicly and privately. Furthermore, President Bush has consistently emphasized that the United States is committed to a diplomatic solution to the nuclear challenge posed by the Iranian regime
The thing is, to work any kind of long, stable accord there has to be trust. And there's zero trust in that region. Nobody trusts Iran, but also, really, who trusts Israel? If Bibi didn't need an excuse, he would've bombed the out of them already.
Unfortunately, the US is too knee deep at this point in the region, since junior's Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns. You also have a good amount of hawks in both parties still in Congress.
The local Fox channel here in SD keeps mentioning the 4 American prisoners. Come on, Iran supposed to empty their prisons? Many nations were involved in this deal.
What you rightwingnuts/ankle-biters refuse to recognize is that the Iran deal addresses ONLY the nuclear bomb. Everything else was, is secondary, and will be addressed separately.
Unless a Repug gets into the WH, with a Repug Congress, then it will be All (MIC) Bu$ine$$ (aka war with Iran).
The point is that before there can be long peace there needs to be a a short peace. The people of Iran have reason to dislike us for propping up the old English colonial regime and doing proxy wars of our own. WE have our own images from their revolution and its aftermath. Old enemies like Cuba, Iran and Vietnam are harder to use as excuses or rallying cries.
I just don't think it's going to work out, and mostly because the major parties in this hate eachother's guts. I'm not opposed to attempts such as this deal, I just don't think they realistically address the issue at hand.
A pragmatic analysis yields that Iran wants nuclear weapons for the same reason Israel and many other nations have them: to serve as a deterrent and a projection of power, especially to neighbors.
Iran won't stop towards that goal as long as Israel has nukes. Israel won't get rid of their nukes. So I don't see a solution to this conundrum.
A pragmatic analysis should also yield that the Iranian people were overwhelmingly for this deal and that the Russians are also on board. Now sure maybe the Ayatollah and his personal guard have there own agenda and that is certainly what the Israelis want us to believe but there is a growing opposition ever since that crackdown on the Green party during the Arab Spring.
Those are the one's that are trying to push Iran back into the world at large. After that crackdown and witchhunt, powerful voices such as the families of the other revolutionary ayatollahs started comparing the Supreme Leader's tactics to that of the Shah. The parallels were obvious and the Grand Ayatollah surprised everyone by listening. He told his guard to allow people back home and released them from prison. It's been a road that ultimately brought him to the bargaining table with the west first through back channels and now famously out in the open. By agreeing to this deal, he's given that political movement legitimacy. He listened to them and followed through.
I get your concerns but this isn't your daddy's ayatollah nor his Iran.
That's fine. It's just that Israel largely doesn't care and don't want to hear it... hmm... let me rephrase that: a large swath of Israelis that put Bibi in power and a good portion of the power brokers in the west don't care and don't want to hear it.
Do you trust Israel not to sabotage this deal? I don't.
If you use military tactics especially guerilla tactics for political gain outside of a nation state structure you are a terrorist. You can try and bring up Sunni fundamentalist sects and try to split hairs but it is what it is. ISIS has made it difficult to get aid to Hezbollah lately and your boys havent been doing all that great for all your chest thumping.
It's not like they haven't been trying. Arab league is having kittens too and the deal still happened. Instead of worrying about Bibi and his political posturing what is going to make a difference with an election right around the corner is what people like you and I have to say. If the Senate ratifies it then it's going to happen.
I cannot stand conservative Israeli politics and I could do without the political islam of the arab states myself. I would like to see this deal get a chance. I guess I should write Cornyn and Cruz. bleh.
This is one of those areas where I don't think they really care what we think about.
they NEVER care what Human-Americans care about. They care about whatever their big donors care about.
It's going to be nearly impossible for the Repugs to block the Iran deal.
Texas Senate is a weird bug now that the state's demographics are changing. Used to be only the primary mattered but with the GOP losing redistricting court battle after another following the census their districts are not as ridiculous as they once were. I haven't been paying attention to what the dems are doing. I just hope someone worth a primaries against Cruz and again in the general. I'd gladly write a $1k check to help get that stooge out of office.
I'm going to write both TX senators and the Texas GOP to tell them I am donating this cycle and their obstruction will guarantee my donation goes elsewhere.
Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 07-16-2015 at 05:22 AM.
Being a older , you have probably been discriminated and marginalized your whole life. I get where the defeatism comes from but ffs it ain't all bad for the rest of us.
you don't even really realize how much better off EVERYBODY should be if the VRWC hadn't succeeded in killing the American dream over the past 40+ years.
You're already defeated, a loser, beat down, and you don't even realize it, which is exactly what the VRWC wanted.
Fat, dumb, happy, enough material and TeeVee and sports distractions (all over-priced), while the VRWC continues to bleed you dry of $Ts.
The median household income should near $100K instead of (steadily declining) $50K.
What the ? Do you idiots seriously not read my posts?
I said i'm fine with the agreement as long as we have the political will to drop the ing sanctions hammer on them the first time they interfere with IAEA inspectors.
That being said there is zero chance this administration has the balls to do it.
Once BigCorp starts doing BigBusiness with Iran, no Repug administration will kill that business. Same reason Repugs have never had a plan for immigration, cheap labor, brown or white, is great for business.
CC, why do you hate America?
You have been working hard so I think you earned thisWe understand you.
Your religion says it's OK to lie to us infidels.
I wonder what your 72 virgins will look like?
and YOU get 100k, and YOU get 100k
Lol, some countries support terrorism, some don't. What a concept.
USA being the former
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