Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 112
  1. #76
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    89,425
    if a living wage is ruled out, how do you level the playing field so it isn't free foxes in a free henhouse?

    not rhetorical. how do you do it?

    globalization is a race to the bottom. do we want to be a super-Mexico or super-Brazil?

  2. #77
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    "One of the problems of increasing the minimum wage is you have to increase the wages of everyone when it happens;"

    yep, that's the plan. Why organize a society where 40M+ people are on govt assistance, short, ugly, brutal lives? The American Dream

    "not enough jobs left that are valuable enough."

    how about the value, dignity of people's lives?

    "economic controls from on high rarely, if ever, work, or turn out as expected"

    raising the minimum, over 100s of studies, has shown to have little or no effect on employment, but has huge effect on the recipients of the wages, esp when the increase is significant and not up by +$2/hour.

    obviously, the lack of govt intervention has allowed capitalists to over labor, egregiously, gratuitously pile up $Bs of unspendable capital, while impoverishing 100Ms.

    govt is the ONLY solution with enough power reduce inequality, which won't solve itself.

    We're RADICALLY ed, and need Bernie-style RADICAL policies (which are just common sense) to un us.

    Hillary's incrementalism is sickening, she is, as a 0.1%er, not gonna fix .

    And the Repugs? they will, see all their budget plans, make it horribly worse, just as they have for the past 40 years.

  3. #78
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    How We Can Save $17 Billion in Public Assistance—Annually

    Want to know the best way to find savings in government assistance programs? Here’s a hint—it’s not by cutting nutrition assistance to working people who are struggling.

    It’s by paying them fairly for their labor.


    A new report from the Economic Policy Ins ute indicates that raising the federal minimum wage to $12 by 2020 would lift wages for more than 35 million workers nationwide and generate about $17 billion annually in savings to government assistance programs.


    This report shouldn’t come as a surprise. In contrast to the stereotypes and lies about people with low incomes, the reality is that a majority of public assistance recipients either have a job or have an immediate family member who is working. In fact,

    41.2 million working Americans—or 30 percent of the workforce—receive means-tested public assistance. Nearly half of them work full-time.

    A majority (53 percent) of workers earning $12.16 per hour or less—or the bottom 30 percent of wage earners—rely on public assistance. As wages go down, the percentage of workers relying on public assistance gets higher: 60 percent of workers earning less than $7.42—only slightly higher than the $7.25 federal minimum wage—receive some form of means-tested public assistance.

    Overall, 70 percent of the benefits in programs meant to aid non-elderly low-income households—programs like food stamps, Medicaid, and the Earned Income Tax Credits—go to working families.

    taxpayers are effectively subsidizing wealthy companies to cover the gap between what workers earn on the job and what they need to support themselves and their families.

    the minimum wage. today it’s worth 24 percent less than in 1968, adjusted for inflation.

    raising the wages of the bottom 30 percent of workers by just $1 per hour would result in $5.2 billion in public assistance savings each year. And the $17 billion in annual savings realized by raising the minimum wage to $12 by 2020 could be used to strengthen anti-poverty programs—such as expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) to childless adults, or improving access to childcare and preschool for children from low- and moderate-income families, or make long-overdue investments in infrastructure.

    http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/02/18/how-we-can-save-17-billion-public-assistance-annually


    If your business depends on paying, must pay poverty wages, your business sucks, it's not viable.



  4. #79
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    50,672
    One of the problems of increasing the minimum wage is you have to increase the wages of everyone when it happens; it's simple human nature. The problem isn't what the government sets the wage at, the problem is that there are not enough jobs left that are valuable enough. Manufacturing is the obvious one, but productivity increases have decreased the number of jobs in just about every sector. Solid, middle income jobs are becoming more and more rare - and you can't just magically make low income jobs more valuable, they are what they are. I honestly don't know where to start with a solution, but economic controls from on high rarely, if ever, work, or turn out as expected.
    Increasing everyones wages is not a problem. It is a solution to the economic stagnation and outright wage decline of middle and lower income wage earners.

    All you are seeing here is the immediate effect of such a thing.

    If more people demanded, and could pay higher prices for your company's services, your company would end up with more revenue to balance.

  5. #80
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    50,672
    taxpayers are effectively subsidizing wealthy companies to cover the gap between what workers earn on the job and what they need to support themselves and their families.
    This.

  6. #81
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    What about not all that wealthy companies? There is a bottom to the pit. My margins are thin. If all of my clients (businesses) are dealing with having to pay all of their employees more, they aren't going to want to see fee increases from me. I have to actually have money to pay it to my employees. Or I could fire them, and outsource to India (they offer monthly).

  7. #82
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    What about not all that wealthy companies?

    My margins are thin.
    If your business depends on paying, must pay poverty wages, your business sucks, it's not viable.

  8. #83
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    43,735
    boo, what is your business?

  9. #84
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    50,672
    What about not all that wealthy companies? There is a bottom to the pit. My margins are thin. If all of my clients (businesses) are dealing with having to pay all of their employees more, they aren't going to want to see fee increases from me. I have to actually have money to pay it to my employees. Or I could fire them, and outsource to India (they offer monthly).
    Key is to kick in increases slowly over time. You raise just enough, and everybody else does the same.

    Basically creating inflation.

  10. #85
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    boo, what is your business?
    slapping you greedy, sociopathic John Galts

  11. #86
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    Key is to kick in increases slowly over time. You raise just enough, and everybody else does the same.

    Basically creating inflation.
    any evidence that raising the minimum wage causes, or contributes to, inflation?

  12. #87
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    If your business depends on paying, must pay poverty wages, your business sucks, it's not viable.

    My lowest paid employee makes ~35K; my highest is in the low six figures; 17 spread between those extremes. If you were keeping up, you would know that the discussion that when the minimum wage raises, every job becomes more expensive - that employee making 35K doesn't all of a sudden want to make minimum again, after all - nor should she.

  13. #88
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    boo, what is your business?
    I wouldn't do it, just pointing out what options (temptations) are out there. Employee Benefits; mostly clerical work.

  14. #89
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    Key is to kick in increases slowly over time. You raise just enough, and everybody else does the same.

    Basically creating inflation.
    A doubling of the minimum wage (or tripling as some have suggested) makes "slowly over time" less viable.

  15. #90
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    "every job becomes more expensive"

    you are finally "keeping up" with the strategy of enriching everybody (below the top 5%), whose salaries have been suppressed for 40+ years, by pushing pay up from the bottom.

    My suggestion is Federal minimum wage $25/hour in 2025, starting with $15/hr immediately, all indexed to inflation and regional COL.




  16. #91
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    "every job becomes more expensive"

    you are finally "keeping up" with the strategy of enriching everybody (below the top 5%), whose salaries have been suppressed for 40+ years, by pushing pay up from the bottom.

    My suggestion is Federal minimum wage $25/hour in 2025, starting with $15/hr immediately, all indexed to inflation and regional COL.



    RG has pointed out that the result of this is inflation. That being the case, what's the point. The value of a person's work is its value, regardless of what number you attach to it. That value is only worth so much in purchasing power. The only way to escape this truism, and the market adjusting for whatever artificial forces are applied, is to ditch the markets altogether. Point to the Netherlands, maybe? They still have a "market" economy, but with a larger safety net, a higher minimum wage, right? Poverty rate there is roughly equivalent as it is here ~14%. Weird.

  17. #92
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    Canada has a lower poverty rate (9.6%), but they have about a $10 minimum wage. Maybe that's the sweet spot?

  18. #93
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    The highest the minimum wage has ever been in this country (adjusted) was 1968. Poverty level then? 12.8% Poverty level in 2006, before the Great Recession? 12.3%.

    Poverty level and the minimum wage, as far as I can tell, are not closely related.

    However, people living in poverty have more things than they used to.

    http://www.russellsage.org/research/...-1990-and-2006

  19. #94
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    50,672
    A doubling of the minimum wage (or tripling as some have suggested) makes "slowly over time" less viable.
    Increase 10%-15% per year, doable.

    Economy is a moving thing, and can absorb it. Given we are worried about de-flation.

  20. #95
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514
    RG has pointed out that the result of this is inflation. That being the case, what's the point. The value of a person's work is its value, regardless of what number you attach to it. That value is only worth so much in purchasing power. The only way to escape this truism, and the market adjusting for whatever artificial forces are applied, is to ditch the markets altogether. Point to the Netherlands, maybe? They still have a "market" economy, but with a larger safety net, a higher minimum wage, right? Poverty rate there is roughly equivalent as it is here ~14%. Weird.
    RG has shown the raisiing the minimum causes inflation? even contributes to inflation?

    So you are all for taxpayers subsidizing employers who pay ty incomes, subsidizing so people can live with a minimum decency (but still a maximum of financial stress)?

  21. #96
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    RG has shown the raisiing the minimum causes inflation? even contributes to inflation?
    No. He said it, I take him at his word, considering his background. He has since clarified his answer.

    So you are all for taxpayers subsidizing employers who pay ty incomes, subsidizing so people can live with a minimum decency (but still a maximum of financial stress)?
    I did not say that. Strawman.

    I would be for government funded skills training (specifically in trades starting at younger than high school graduate) - I would also support subsidized daycare for struggling mothers/parents - could expand the public school system to younger ages to help with that.

    I would certainly support more coercion from society to make fathers as responsible (as much as possible) as mothers when unintended pregnancies occur - this could have the added benefit of possibly reducing the number of abortions (could also increase them, now that I think about it).

    I would be for people on govt. assistance being able to supplement their income without getting "means" tested off of assistance. A person working should have more money than one not.

    Do you want to keep putting me in a box, or would you like to have a discussion.

  22. #97
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    152,607
    What about not all that wealthy companies? There is a bottom to the pit. My margins are thin. If all of my clients (businesses) are dealing with having to pay all of their employees more, they aren't going to want to see fee increases from me. I have to actually have money to pay it to my employees. Or I could fire them, and outsource to India (they offer monthly).
    There's no easy solution to this. You will likely have to go to the bolded route regardless, because your compe ion eventually will and you'll not be able to stay compe ive, unless you're offering some sort of plus nobody else can.

    You really can't compete with the India/China of the world and their ty standards of living. Notice too that most of all of those countries are not "free market" either. They manipulate currency like crazy to keep their people down and remain attractive for outsourcing. It's not a fair fight. You will end up offering tier service, but it will be cheaper and that's the bottom line.

    "Globalization" at all costs is something else this country needs to address economically and politically. It's a race to the bottom and it's the every day worker that will get hurt the most (and I say this as a business owner).

  23. #98
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    Increase 10%-15% per year, doable.

    Economy is a moving thing, and can absorb it. Given we are worried about de-flation.
    What's going on with the economy? Markets OK, unemployment low, but barely better than recession growth? Not rhetorical questions, btw. Serious.

  24. #99
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    7,711
    There's no easy solution to this. You will likely have to go to the bolded route regardless, because your compe ion eventually will and you'll not be able to stay compe ive, unless you're offering some sort of plus nobody else can.
    We are trying, and succeeding, so far.

  25. #100
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,514

    I did not say that. Strawman.
    If you are against raising the minimum wage, then you accept, at least implicitly, taxpayers bailing out minimum wage employers.

    what's the point of spending money on training if the grads, many of them w/o HS diploma or with a useless HSD (being still illiterate, innumerate) go into a market where they still face unlivable wages?

    btw, the graduation rates at 2-year Alamo colleges group is dismal, like well under 50%.

    And many of the grads find their associate degrees and credits are not accepted at even state 4-year colleges.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •