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Thanks for the grades! This was the game I wanted the Spurs to win before they can go on another losing streak ...
Thanks for the grades! This was the game I wanted the Spurs to win before they can go on another losing streak ...
Thank you timvp. I still wish for a starting lineup of Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, and Wemby. Draft a PG and move Jones to the bench next season. It's not rocket science tbh.
I think it's safe to say the Spurs can only win if everybody has an A performance
Poop should get an F every game he decides to not start a ing PG tbh
Starting Tre is so ing obvious. But it's going to take the old man 25 different SLs before he lands on it. Like I legit think Blake Wesley will start at point before Tre does
That shouldn’t be so bad IF Wesley can hit open shots. Tre often times gets overpowered defensively. While Wesley is the better point-of-attack defender, and should help when they start losing the game defensively. He has PG qualities, just not consistent. BUT if he could limit the mistakes, Wesley could see minutes with the SL. Tre should stay as backup PG because the Bench needs his leadership and offense. Tre is a very good backup PG, but that’s about it. He is a defensively against starting PG’s.Starting Tre is so ing obvious. But it's going to take the old man 25 different SLs before he lands on it. Like I legit think Blake Wesley will start at point before Tre does
But yes, Wesley’s development is crucial imo. He could solve a lot of the PG problems
Good to see your sniffing on KJ tone down while you recognized his abysmal transition D.
His made treys are often negated by the oppenents hitting a trey or driving past him for a layup.
I don't know where this guys trade value sits. Assuming other NBA teams are not stupid.
There's no evidence that Tre isn't anything but a good defender, even as a starter. Defense is pretty hard to measure objectively. but it's also extremely easy to misread it subjectively. Wesley has shown some aesthetically pleasing possessions, but he hasn't had a ton of success actually stopping players. Jones has been beat before, but he also forces a lot of turnovers, understands how to rotate and help and overall improves the defense every time he's on the court.
The Spurs' defense is literally only a half-point per 100 better this year than last, and that's with getting one of the best defensive prospects ever and getting another year to "learn the system" for the other players. It feels like Pop misidentified what needed to happen to improve the defense and has made it worse all things considered.
As far as backup PG goes, Graham has looked good in his minutes and should be in the running for either PG spot. Both he and Jones are miles ahead of Wesley
branham deserves a f,Just terrible on d.....Give granham his mins or bring back wesley ffs
Unless you watch the games, in which case you’ll see plenty of objective evidence of how bad Tre is on defense. He’s terrible. It isn’t only that he’s short. He’s a moron.
Look at the Bulls game replay.
3:10 in the first quarter. Tre totally abandons his man on the arc, and runs all the way to the middle of the lane to try to help McDermott guard Vuc when both Collins and Keldon are already there. Tre leaves his man wide wide open only one pass away. When Vuc passes back out to Tre’s unguarded man, Keldon scrambles to cover, the pass then goes to a man open in the corner, where Tre then sprints out to try to cover, too late of course. Fortunately, the Bulls missed.
Sir, totally abandoning your man at the 3pt line, to try to help when three of your teammates are already there, is objectively bad defense, with no honest question about it.
All you’ve proven with your remarks about Tre’s defense is that you don’t know what to look for.
Want more? Still the Bulls game.
First quarter 1:50 on the clock. Tre abandons his man at the 3pt line with the apparent intent of helping Osman and Collins defend a ball screen, which is going on one pass away. This time, when the pass goes to the man Tre left open, he doesn’t miss.
That’s twice, in less than a minute and a half, that Tre just ran away from his assignment, leaving his man wide open at the 3pt line.
Simply abandoning your man at the 3pt line (or anywhere else for that matter) is objectively bad defense.
Want more? Still the Bulls game.
Second quarter 11:20. Tre abandoned his man to try to help Osman guard DDR in the right corner. (It did no good at all, they didn’t trap DDR of course.) While Tre was stupidly engaged in that pointless activity, his man ran all the way across the court to the left corner. Tre then went sprinting all the way across the court to try to get back to his man. In the meantime Collins saw the man go by unguarded to the corner, and rotated that direction. When you see something like that, you think a rotation is happening. But it left Drummond unguarded under the basket, where he received a pass and scored.
In the space of about 3:30 on the game clock, Tre Jones committed three major defensive blunders, two of which led to scores, for 5 points. All that saved him the other time was that the shooter missed an open corner 3.
There you have some evidence of objectively bad defense, by Mr. Tre Jones.
yup his defence has been to inconsistent this year of course along with his offence...Dude has
been useless at times alot
I guess folks like Obstructed_View and exstatic can stop pretending like Wemby is the next Durant now.Eventually, Wembanyama will be a center. If Pop thinks that time is now, I don’t have a problem with that.
Basically none of that is bad defense. I don't have a game recorded, so I'm just looking at what I can see in the NBA's recap vid:
(2:02 in the above video) So this isn't a real interpretation of what happened. The Spurs purposefully ran a double on that play. Jones didn't "abandon his man" and Keldon didn't "scramble to cover". That's not really how NBA defense works. Jones doubled, Keldon rotated and Jones rotated to force the miss. That was actually a very good defensive sequence until the Spurs forgot to box out and allowed a put-back dunk. It was just a regular strong-side rotation after a dig.3:10 in the first quarter. Tre totally abandons his man on the arc, and runs all the way to the middle of the lane to try to help McDermott guard Vuc when both Collins and Keldon are already there. Tre leaves his man wide wide open only one pass away. When Vuc passes back out to Tre’s unguarded man, Keldon scrambles to cover, the pass then goes to a man open in the corner, where Tre then sprints out to try to cover, too late of course. Fortunately, the Bulls missed.
Also "one pass away" doesn't mean that it only takes one pass to get to the next player. Basically every pass would meet that definition. It's about where a players are on the court. A pass from the post to the wing is two passes away. One pass away in this case would be to the corner. Which is where Keldon was covering. That's why he couldn't double on that play. He would've been doubling from one pass away.
Not in the video, did find it in this video:First quarter 1:50 on the clock.
(:50) What Jones is doing there is called "getting in the gaps", and it's necessary because the Spurs are running drop coverage and expecting Osman to fight over a screen rather than switching. He's stunting at the ball-handler and recovering to his man. He probably waits about a half-second too long there. The Bulls shooter very smartly drifted to create more space. The result of that play without Jones was going to be an easy two. If you've watched any of those "Spurs defensive mistakes" videos, you'll know that drop coverage Collins is playing is the single thing the guy gets most pissed about in terms of how the Spurs play. It wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs adjusted their PnR coverage specifically to emphasize that stunt as a way to trying to limit the two-on-ones their previous scheme kept giving up.
(2:30 of the first vid) The Spurs weren't trying to trap DeRozan. They wanted him to pick up his dribble. As soon as he did, Jones sprinted to cover his rotation (opposite corner). The Spurs rotated extremely well for most of this play. The mistake happened when Collins and Jones both rotated. It's possible Pop wants that rotation, but that would leave Jones on a center under the basket. So I don't know for sure which way Pop would coach that, but I would rate Jones as basically perfect, Victor perfect, Vassell late (which allowed the penetration) and Collins having a mental lapse. If you watch Tre's actions on the play, he immediately sprints to the opposite corner as soon as the ball leaves DeRozan's hands. That is somebody who is following a procedure and not panicking. But is Collins is supposed to make that rotation, then Jones made a mistake by not rushing to front Drummond. What isn't the mistake is "leaving his man open" to double DeRozan. That part is textbook.Second quarter 11:20. Tre abandoned his man to try to help Osman guard DDR in the right corner. (It did no good at all, they didn’t trap DDR of course.) While Tre was stupidly engaged in that pointless activity, his man ran all the way across the court to the left corner. Tre then went sprinting all the way across the court to try to get back to his man. In the meantime Collins saw the man go by unguarded to the corner, and rotated that direction. When you see something like that, you think a rotation is happening. But it left Drummond unguarded under the basket, where he received a pass and scored.
So yeah, I think you should look up what rotations are and how NBA defensive schemes work. Check out this video:
Go to about the 1:00 mark. Basically the exact rotation you think Jones did by mistake is diagramed here.
Stuff like this just pisses me off. I'm not even close to an expert in basketball analysis. I've never played outside of pickup when I was a kid. But I do bother to look into like defense and metrics before I talk about who is or isn't playing well. Can I be wrong? Yes. I'm wrong often. But it would be nice if folks did basic research if they're going to claim that Jones is a bad defender despite him grading out as a good defender for years.
If this was true teams wouldn't A) switch on defense and B) put their "best defenders" on the other teams best offensive players. We'd not see people like Kawhi and Draymond get so much recognition on defense. If you cannot objectively measure Kawhi's defense in comparison to Keldon Johson, you should never discuss basketball.
LOL. Tre ain’t gonna get us any more wins.
Pop should order VW
If you get more than 15 ft away from the basket, on either end, you will be benched
Oh please. I know you just like to argue, but really now. Give sanity a break.
What I wrote was all perfectly true, and no amount of lying about it, or trying to rationalize, is going to make it any better. Tre is a horribly bad defender, which is why, I suppose, Pop put him on the bench in favor of Sochan.
I dont think you know what the word measure means. I can look at Wemby and Tre by sight and know that Wemby is much taller than Tre, but that doesn't mean I can tell you what either height is just by looking at them. Knowing that someone is a worse defender is not the same as quantifying that in a measurement.
Pop deserves an F every game we lose to continue the streak.
This defense is clown world.
This team needs a point guard. Even with this ty roster they'd scrape out a few wins if anyone could run the offense.
The 20-20 game by Wemby was cool, though. Imagine how much he'd score with a PG who actually knew how to pass him the ball?
Pop's use of his players is embarrassing for his so called knowledge of the game. If we don't have the talent, play all your roster.. sochan is a miss imho. Use dom, mamu, blake ( at least he can push the ball with his speed to create ). etc. bwdik
To belabor the obvious -- Wembanyama's scoring efficiency is a major problem.
His three-point shooting of 25.5% is bad.
But his two-point shooting of 50.9% isn't very good either for a 7'5" player.
To put it in context, the cutoff is 55% for the top 50 two-point % shooters in the NBA. Wemby isn't even close.
Even on the Spurs roster, Wemby's two-point % of 50.9% is middle of the pack behind Charles Bassey 74.4%, Devonte' Graham 66.7%, Zach Collins 61.2%, Devin Vassell 57.9%, Cedi Osman 55.7% and even chucker Keldon Johnson 55.3%.
The Bulls game was typical -- Wemby went 0-4 from three (0%) and 8-16 from two (50%).
Wemby's efficiency must (and will) improve but until then the Spurs will continue to struggle.
The stats say otherwise. They wouldn't be world beaters but they'd have 3-4 more wins
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