Messi = DUD. 0 goals and 0 assists in his last 5 games

[Brazil]

I agree with Godnaldo being the best player of his generation. I'd take him over Zidane all day.

Both are quite close tbh... there is not such a about I'd take him over Zidane all day

[Canyonero]

This post is full of

so Messi did not win a WC because of Higuain and Palacio but then again you have no problem highlighting the fact Zidane won zero les in half of seasons not mentionning anything abouth Zidane's team mates... ok

Well yes, that's the point of my message. No player wins les by their own (not even Maradona or Pele), you need 11 guys. Since Zidane is supposedly the more versatile top-3 all time player he should have won les everything single season by himself right?.

And I appreciate your "this post is full of " statement. That's more convincing than any logical argument.

[Brazil]

Well yes, that's the point of my message. No player wins les by their own (not even Maradona or Pele), you need 11 guys. Since Zidane is supposedly the more versatile top-3 all time player he should have won les everything single season by himself right?.

And I appreciate your "this post is full of " statement. That's more convincing than any logical argument.

Bro you are finding excuses for Messi and contradicting yourself it's hilarious

Since by your own take Messi is more versatile than Zidane and top 3 all time he should have won every single WC by himself right ?

Enlighten me tho with your logical argument... what applies for Zidane don't apply for Messi ?

On a side note I never said Zidane is top 3 but he is right there in any top 10 you can find (except in ElNono head tho)

Pele
Maradona
Eusebio
The Kaiser
Messi
Zidane
Di Stefano
Cruyf
Garrincha
Ronaldo (Brazilian)

no particular order

you have also in the discussion guys like CR7, Puskas, Platini, Maldini, Best... I must forget some.. like Zico (one of my favorite tbh), Muller...

[Canyonero]

Bro you are finding excuses for Messi and contradicting yourself it's hilarious

Since by your own take Messi is more versatile than Zidane and top 3 all time he should have won every single WC by himself right ?

Enlighten me tho with your logical argument... what applies for Zidane don't apply for Messi ?

On a side note I never said Zidane is top 3 but he is right there in any top 10 you can find (except in ElNono head tho)

Pele
Maradona
Eusebio
The Kaiser
Messi
Zidane
Di Stefano
Cruyf
Garrincha
Ronaldo (Brazilian)

no particular order

you have also in the discussion guys like CR7, Puskas, Platini, Maldini, Best... I must forget some.. like Zico (one of my favorite tbh), Muller...

Where's the contradiction? When did I say Messi or Zidane or any other player regardless of their skills has won things by their own when you are clearly playing a team sport? My comment about "winning by himself" intended to be ironic, sorry if it wasn't made clear.

I believe you have misread the whole series of messages, I was answering the other guy's post saying Zidane is a top-3 all-time who has to be the more versatile player because he won trophies with most of his teams (a relation I disagreed with, hence my comment about nadapletes or the "winning by himself"). The only thing I didn't bother to reply was Messi being a system player because that's borderline re ed.

You are making it look as if I'm saying Zidane is crap which couldn't be far from true For me he's one of the greats but not a top-3.

[Brazil]

Where's the contradiction? When did I say Messi or Zidane or any other player regardless of their skills has won things by their own when you are clearly playing a team sport? My comment about "winning by himself" intended to be ironic, sorry if it wasn't made clear.

I believe you have misread the whole series of messages, I was answering the other guy's post saying Zidane is a top-3 all-time who has to be the more versatile player because he won trophies with most of his teams (a relation I disagreed with, hence my comment about nadapletes or the "winning by himself"). The only thing I didn't bother to reply was Messi being a system player because that's borderline re ed.

You are making it look as if I'm saying Zidane is crap which couldn't be far from true For me he's one of the greats but not a top-3.

Yes but you still rank messi top 3 with no wc saying Argentina lost because of higuain which I find odd knowing messi did not play at all in semi and final.

For the rest point taken, fair enough

Argentina has been carried by messi and defense in a lower extend till semi. Semi defense carried the load and also in finale cannot blame much defense for the goal tbh.. France 98 has been carried by defense and MF with an average zidane tbh until finale where Zizou scored twice and had a very solid game. 2006 is all about Zizou best player and coach of the team (domenech is a joke) then materazzi happened.

[Canyonero]

Yes but you still rank messi top 3 with no wc saying Argentina lost because of higuain which I find odd knowing messi did not play at all in semi and final.

For the rest point taken, fair enough

Argentina has been carried by messi and defense in a lower extend till semi. Semi defense carried the load and also in finale cannot blame much defense for the goal tbh.. France 98 has been carried by defense and MF with an average zidane tbh until finale where Zizou scored twice and had a very solid game. 2006 is all about Zizou best player and coach of the team (domenech is a joke) then materazzi happened.

Considering the overall impact he had/has in the sport (especially for being the best player in one of the GOAT teams), performances, skills and statistics his top-3 status is well deserved. Cruyff and Di Stefano are valid choices for the same and they haven't won a WC (Di Stefano didn't even play in one).

As I said before, in the end Maradona was "fortunate" Valdano/Burruchaga scored their plays. If West Germany had won that World Cup (and considering Maradona played poorly in that final except for assisting Burruchaga), who knows what his legacy would be.

[dunkman]

You seldom see someone dribbling Brazil's players like it's not a big deal (Zidane in 2006 WC Brazil - France), another player I saw do that is Maradona (1990 WC Brazil - Argentina). Brazil is always favourite, all NT players have top technique.

To be honest, I really wanted to see Messi show some magic in the 2014 WC like Maradona did in 1986, but basically Di Maria got injured and Argentina made no goals from there. I realized Messi is not quite as good as Maradona.

[ElNono]

Zidane played on stacked teams too, and IIRC, lost a number of CL Finals with them... His Juve and Real teams were ing stacked and France was no slouch either.

Not saying Messi is not, but that's one major difference with Diego, who took a bunch of nobodys with Napoli to the scudetto and pretty much the same with that ARG teams in '86 and '90.

That's always been another argument of discussion between Diego and Pele, tbh, who had Garrincha with him, another legitimate top 10 player...

[hater]

Brazilian Ronaldo s on Messi tbh

Ronaldinho and Ronaldo both on Misty in international play. When it matters

[Brazil]

Zidane played on stacked teams too, and IIRC, lost a number of CL Finals with them... His Juve and Real teams were ing stacked and France was no slouch either.

Not saying Messi is not, but that's one major difference with Diego, who took a bunch of nobodys with Napoli to the scudetto and pretty much the same with that ARG teams in '86 and '90.

That's always been another argument of discussion between Diego and Pele, tbh, who had Garrincha with him, another legitimate top 10 player...

Nobody really compared Zidane to Maradona ... your considerations regarding his Napoli years are legit, this is why I still don't see Messi in same breath tbh... For the rest I consider also that someone saying Maradona>Pele is not chocking


Zidane's teams (juve and real) were stacked but he still lead a quite not stacked Bordeaux to a final of UEFA with a great comeback against Milan and some of FNT teams were not top notch either tbh

[lefty]

Ruggeri won a WC tbh

[Canyonero]

Ok lefty

[DAF86]

Maradona having ty teammates in '86 and Napoly is one of the biggest bull sports myths ever. Right up with Kobe's clutchness and Jordan's niceness.

[ElNono]

It's true though. That '86 team had like 2 guys playing overseas besides Diego. Valdano and I think Burruchaga was playing in Nantes at the time. That team almost doesn't even qualify to the world cup, I still remember det tight butt until el tigre Gareca scored that goal in El Monumental in the last minute. Half the team was River, the rest a bunch of names (Tapia), some over the hill (Bochini). Passarella didn't even make it.

And I dare you name 5 guys from Napoli. I only remember Alemao and Careca, both of which didn't get established until they were in Naples, and won nothing with Brazil, IIRC.

[DAF86]

It's true though. That '86 team had like 2 guys playing overseas besides Diego. Valdano and I think Burruchaga was playing in Nantes at the time. That team almost doesn't even qualify to the world cup, I still remember det tight butt until el tigre Gareca scored that goal in El Monumental in the last minute. Half the team was River, the rest a bunch of names (Tapia), some over the hill (Bochini). Passarella didn't even make it.

And I dare you name 5 guys from Napoli. I only remember Alemao and Careca, both of which didn't get established until they were in Naples, and won nothing with Brazil, IIRC.

You have to remember the times. In those years it wasn't so common for players to travel overseas. Ruggeri might not have been in Europe at that time (i'm not sure though), but he is one of the best argie defenders of all-time. Way better than all the ones we have playing in Europe right now. And the same can be said with a lot of players, what right midfielder of the level of Enrique do we have now?

And it was't only the players, it was the coaching, the system. That '86 team was a great team.

Something similar happened with Napoly. At that time Italians teams didn't have the chance of getting an infinite amount of international players, they had a limited quota (of three I think). And Napoly went on to get the best Brazilian attacker of that time and the best player in tje World, added to a lot of Italian internationals. They were far from a sloucho

Besides, the whole "Diego did more with less" bull falls apart when he failed with stacked teams such as Boca, Barcelona and the greatest generation of Argie players of all-time (in '82).

Teams are constructed in different ways, and simply having popular names doesn't guarantee you constructing a great team.

[Canyonero]

I agree, Naples had many awesome players at that time besides Diegoat and Careca. Alemao, Ciro Ferrara, De Napoli.

[lefty]

@OptaJose: 7 - Luis Suárez is the first player to have a hand in 7 goals in a La Liga game on 21st Century (4 goals, 3 assists). Predatory.

TheGreatYacht Jodelo

[TheGreatYacht]

@OptaJose: 7 - Luis Suárez is the first player to have a hand in 7 goals in a La Liga game on 21st Century (4 goals, 3 assists). Predatory.

TheGreatYacht Jodelo

Currently the best South American player in the world, and it ain't close

[ElNono]

You have to remember the times. In those years it wasn't so common for players to travel overseas. Ruggeri might not have been in Europe at that time (i'm not sure though), but he is one of the best argie defenders of all-time. Way better than all the ones we have playing in Europe right now. And the same can be said with a lot of players, what right midfielder of the level of Enrique do we have now?

And it was't only the players, it was the coaching, the system. That '86 team was a great team.

Something similar happened with Napoly. At that time Italians teams didn't have the chance of getting an infinite amount of international players, they had a limited quota (of three I think). And Napoly went on to get the best Brazilian attacker of that time and the best player in tje World, added to a lot of Italian internationals. They were far from a sloucho

Besides, the whole "Diego did more with less" bull falls apart when he failed with stacked teams such as Boca, Barcelona and the greatest generation of Argie players of all-time (in '82).

Teams are constructed in different ways, and simply having popular names doesn't guarantee you constructing a great team.

But your latter point reflects exactly what happened with the '82 team and to a great extent the team that qualified for '86.

The '82 team had a bunch of guys that were "names". They thought they owned everything because they were champs in '78. Passarella, Gallego, etc. And it wasn't rare for players to play overseas back then.

Passarella, Ramon Diaz and Bertoni were playing in Italy, Kempes, Fillol and Trobbiani were playing in Spain a few years earlier, Tarantini in France, Ardiles in England... what happened was Bilardo just cleaned up. IIRC, Gallego played the qualifiers for '86 (along with Passarella).

And the fact that Italy had quotas for foreigners back then accentuates the fact that Diego had to work with limited talent, tbh... not to mention Napoli just never had the dough northern teams like Juve, Inter or Roma had to buy up the best Italian talent.

Now, I'm not saying Enrique was bad or anything like that. All I'm saying is they were unknown quan ies at the time, not world class players. Ciro Ferrara for example, was not bought by Napoli, he was a rook that raised through the Napoli ranks.

[Canyonero]

82's squad has to be one of the most disappointing of all time along with 2002.

[lefty]

saying Alemao was a star, anything to downplay Diego's achievements
Messi's fanboys SMH

Yeah ok , Alemao and De Napoli = Xavi and Iniesta

[DAF86]

saying Alemao was a star, anything to downplay Diego's achievements
Messi's fanboys SMH

Yeah ok , Alemao and De Napoli = Xavi and Iniesta

Talking about Alemao when we were talking about Careca. Just shut up, seriously.

[lefty]

Talking about Alemao when we were talking about Careca. Just shut up, seriously.

Messi wouldn't have won with that Napoli roster

[Canyonero]

lefty please, grown men talking. Shoo shoo.

[Brazil]

oh now Napoli 86 was stacked...