Why would you do that?
To show that he's not a generational talent? It shows that he's not even a "once in 3 years" talent.
To show that there are other options on the board next year available for cheaper?
To show that "best RB in the draft" doesn't mean much in the larger scheme of things?
Take your pick
It doesn't show anything but weak reasoning. We'll see how he does.
None of those are good reasons. The Cowboys didn't have a high enough pick to get either of the top two RBs last year, and they definitely took a need. Next year is another year, and Romo could be done, forcing an offensive rebuild. It makes no sense to argue anything about other classes.
Now if you want to argue that RBs aren't worth high picks, then go ahead, that's a legit argument. If you want to argue that Ramsey or Buckner made a lot more sense, then that's another legit argument. You want to argue that Elliott isn't that good, that's fine. But comparing to other draft classes makes little sense in a league with such short windows. Dallas is a year-to-year team until they get a legit replacement for Romo.
Well it's how he does versus what we could have done with other draft picks.
TIL RB was a need. Care to let me know the YPA difference in the running game between 2014 and 2015?
There's an argument that we did poorly in short yard situations...but it's not like we had to drop the 4th overall pick on a goal line back.
1) The Cowboys FO disagrees with you. Where exactly did they show urgency in the draft other than with EzE? They're prepared for Jaylon Smith to sit out a year. Collins will play next year. Tapper is a project. Prescott is a project. Anything past that is luck if we get anything out of them. They drafted what they thought was the BPA. They did not draft for Romo's window.Next year is another year, and Romo could be done, forcing an offensive rebuild. It makes no sense to argue anything about other classes.
2) EzE doesn't elevate this team from a playoff team to a championship contender. Not next year he doesn't. That's what you're talking about by Romo's window right? If not, I don't care what you think about Romo's window.
Lets check some post draft power rankings to see how good people think the Cowboys will be next year...
16
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-patriots-fall
11
http://www.freep.com/picture-gallery...ings/83911236/
12
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...ats-still-no-1
18
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-draft/page/16
22
http://everything-nfl.sportsblog.com...-rankings.html
17
http://walterfootball.com/nflpowerrankings.php
So everyone thinks this Cowboys team is going to mediocre even with the addition of EzE, and you're talking about the window like it even matters? Why? He just elevated us from 4th in the division to 2nd. Wooo!!!!
You've missed the point if you don't think I'm implying that. I said we could get a good RB next year for cheaper.Now if you want to argue that RBs aren't worth high picks, then go ahead, that's a legit argument.
Another implied argument...If you want to argue that Ramsey or Buckner made a lot more sense, then that's another legit argument.
Did you think I just wanted to make the pick evaporate into thin air? Give me some credit...also Buckner isn't a fit as a 4-3 DE. He's a 3-4 one. If it wasn't Bosa, it was Ramsey or trade back and grab Lawson or Hargreaves.
Literally part of my argument. He's not exceptional in comparison to his peers.You want to argue that Elliott isn't that good, that's fine.
This is shortsighted. We're not a contender next year no matter what we do. We don't have the personnel on defense. So let's say we're aiming for 2 years from now to give Romo one last shot.But comparing to other draft classes makes little sense in a league with such short windows. Dallas is a year-to-year team until they get a legit replacement for Romo.
We're going to have a worse combination of talent by taking the worse value pick this year. We are almost certainly going to be drafting in the middle of the first round next year; we won't have another shot at a top 5 pick. In next year's draft do you think we're going to be able to draft a guy with the potential that Ramsey had? Scratch that, a guy that is as good as a 2nd year Ramsey? We're almost certainly going to be able to snag a RB as good as EzE. Dalvin Cook or Fournette will be available.
So we've got either 2nd year EzE and a 2017 mid first rounder, or we have a 2nd year Ramsey and Dalvin Cook. I think the 2nd combination gives Romo a better percentage at a championship, even if you factor in the percentage of winning a championship added in from this year. (practically zero)
We just don't have the talent across the board to grab a non value pick in the first round. (and personally I was a fan of trading back, not picking Ramsey. at the very least we could have grabbed something from the Ravens or whoever else wanted Ramsey/EzE. There were still guys with a lot of talent available in the 4th if we picked up one of those picks.)
Last edited by jimbo; 05-04-2016 at 04:18 PM.
I think you misunderstood what I said. I said Dallas took a need LAST YEAR in the first round, so they weren't taking a running back. And they weren't even in position to get one of the top two RBs, so it makes no sense to compare Elliott to Gurley.
Getting the best running back in the draft is a short-term decision. They simply don't have long enough careers to use them as a long-term piece. That they didn't draft a QB up high and didn't offer up the third to get Lynch shows that they aren't looking toward the future.1) The Cowboys FO disagrees with you. Where exactly did they show urgency in the draft other than with EzE? They're prepared for Jaylon Smith to sit out a year. Collins will play next year. Tapper is a project. Prescott is a project. Anything past that is luck if we get anything out of them. They drafted what they thought was the BPA. They did not draft for Romo's window.
2) EzE doesn't elevate this team from a playoff team to a championship contender. Not next year he doesn't. That's what you're talking about by Romo's window right? If not, I don't care what you think about Romo's window.
Lol at this "I don't care what you think" in the middle of a long-ass response. But yes, I am talking about next year. They are absolutely going for it next year, and rookie running backs do just fine in leading to that goal.
Oh, well I guess that's settled then.Lets check some post draft power rankings to see how good people think the Cowboys will be next year...
It's not about what you implied. You explicitly said Elliott was third if you looked at the surrounding classes. That is the argument that is poor. If the only point was just that no RB is worth the fourth-overall pick, that's fine. But actually make that argument rather than "implying" it.You've missed the point if you don't think I'm implying that. I said we could get a good RB next year for cheaper.
Do you not understand how arguments work? No, comparing Elliott to Gurley and Fournette in no way implies that Buckner or Ramsey is a better pick. It's fine that you want to argue that, but your post didn't argue that at all.Did you think I just wanted to make the pick evaporate into thin air? Give me some credit...also Buckner isn't a fit as a 4-3 DE. He's a 3-4 one. If it wasn't Bosa, it was Ramsey or trade back and grab Lawson or Hargreaves.
It's really not. I mean, there weren't any generational talents in this draft besides maybe Tunsil and Jack. Winston and Mariota are better than Goff and Wentz. Still no one is saying those guys weren't supposed to be drafted.Literally part of my argument. He's not exceptional in comparison to his peers.
Eh, Dallas shouldn't be a horrible team next season. They could easily win the NFCE. While I don't think they're a contender, I do think they believe they can be if they can get Romo help. Hence Elliott.This is shortsighted. We're not a contender next year no matter what we do. We don't have the personnel on defense. So let's say we're aiming for 2 years from now to give Romo one last shot.
We're fully into OT territory here, but Dallas just did that whole "crazy upside" thing with Claiborne. No one knows how Ramsey is going to turn out. There's definitely an argument for taking a more solid player when you're coming off a horrible year. I like the idea of Hargreaves quite a bit, actually, but it also doesn't make sense to trade down for nothing. I'm obviously fine with Ozzie not closing that trade. The real issue was the Cowboys not wanting to give up their third for Lynch since they wanted him.In next year's draft do you think we're going to be able to draft a guy with the potential that Ramsey had? Scratch that, a guy that is as good as a 2nd year Ramsey?
I don't think it's more realistic to think Ramsey will be a better player in his first two years than Elliott will be. In fact, I don't think it's all that likely that Ramsey is better than a decent free agent over that span. The dude's not really a football player. It's a similar issue with Buckner. I don't see a ton Dallas could have done up there. They weren't getting value to move back.So we've got either 2nd year EzE and a 2017 mid first rounder, or we have a 2nd year Ramsey and Dalvin Cook. I think the 2nd combination gives Romo a better percentage at a championship, even if you factor in the percentage of winning a championship added in from this year. (practically zero
Ah, yes, that's well and good. But it's not like the Cowboys had your evaluation and just messed it up. They considered Elliott a blue-chipper and didn't want to risk him for less than a third. I don't think Dallas would have had much of a market to move back beyond that, because as Ozzie said, no one called after Ramsey was picked. Dallas at six with their two favorites gone doesn't make a ton of sense. Hargreaves isn't an awful pick, but he has is own issues. They don't need a lineman. Buckner would have been all right as a right end that kicked inside, but he too has issues. It was Bosa or bust. And so it was bust. Don't think five years from the best back they could get is a horrible result from that.We just don't have the talent across the board to grab a non value pick in the first round. (and personally I was a fan of trading back, not picking Ramsey. at the very least we could have grabbed something from the Ravens or whoever else wanted Ramsey/EzE. There were still guys with a lot of talent available in the 4th if we picked up one of those picks.)
If they can do dumb like take a RB, a position that isn't of need, at 4th overall, they can figure out how to do more dumb to get Todd Gurley.
How long ago was it that they traded up to the 6th pick to draft a CB?
If anything, RB WAS a position of need last year. Everyone knew we weren't keeping Murray.
Wait, did you just ignore every other draft pick other than the first rounder in making that statement? Wait, wait wait. This is supposed to be quality analysis?Getting the best running back in the draft is a short-term decision. They simply don't have long enough careers to use them as a long-term piece. That they didn't draft a QB up high and didn't offer up the third to get Lynch shows that they aren't looking toward the future.
Lol at this "I don't care what you think" in the middle of a long-ass response. But yes, I am talking about next year. They are absolutely going for it next year, and rookie running backs do just fine in leading to that goal.
and if you weren't talking about going for a championship your post would be irrelevant, that's why I said that. (And it turns out your post was irrelevant, you're not arguing anything other thanyou're making bad arguments
Oh, well I guess that's settled then.
It's better than your predictions for the Cowboys. (Hint: It starts and ends with nothing.)
It's not about what you implied. You explicitly said Elliott was third if you looked at the surrounding classes. That is the argument that is poor. If the only point was just that no RB is worth the fourth-overall pick, that's fine. But actually make that argument rather than "implying" it.
Do you not understand how arguments work? No, comparing Elliott to Gurley and Fournette in no way implies that Buckner or Ramsey is a better pick. It's fine that you want to argue that, but your post didn't argue that at all.
I didn't think I needed to hold your hand and flat out tell you the obvious arguments. My mistake. I'll handle you with re gloves from now on.
Like I seriously don't know what you were assuming. That I thought we would forfeit our picks? It turns out that we don't exist in a vacuum.
Ramsey was one of those guys...It's really not. I mean, there weren't any generational talents in this draft besides maybe Tunsil and Jack. Winston and Mariota are better than Goff and Wentz. Still no one is saying those guys weren't supposed to be drafted.
and cmon now, it's not even fair to compare drafting a QB 1st and 2nd overall to drafting a RB 4th overall. You're almost forced to draft a QB that high. You're not forced to draft a RB that high.
So you don't think the Cowboys are a contender even with Elliott.Eh, Dallas shouldn't be a horrible team next season. They could easily win the NFCE. While I don't think they're a contender, I do think they believe they can be if they can get Romo help. Hence Elliott.
So how exactly is a RB a need again? And because you ignored it, I'll go ahead and just help you out. We averaged 4.7 YPC in 2014 with Romo and Demarco Murray. We averaged 4.6 YPC in 2015 with a pile of and McFadden.
We're fully into OT territory here, but Dallas just did that whole "crazy upside" thing with Claiborne. No one knows how Ramsey is going to turn out. There's definitely an argument for taking a more solid player when you're coming off a horrible year. I like the idea of Hargreaves quite a bit, actually, but it also doesn't make sense to trade down for nothing. I'm obviously fine with Ozzie not closing that trade. The real issue was the Cowboys not wanting to give up their third for Lynch since they wanted him.
I don't think it's more realistic to think Ramsey will be a better player in his first two years than Elliott will be. In fact, I don't think it's all that likely that Ramsey is better than a decent free agent over that span. The dude's not really a football player. It's a similar issue with Buckner. I don't see a ton Dallas could have done up there. They weren't getting value to move back.
Claiborne was actually supposed to be a safe pick...dude was a stud in college. He was very widely recognized as the best corner on a team that included a heisman "candidate" in Mattheiu. He's just been injured his whole career.
And we're not comparing Elliott and Ramsey directly. We're comparing Elliott and a mid first rounder (or late first rounder if you think the Cowboys are the division champs), versus Ramsey and a mid first rounder like Dalvin Cook.
Ramsey is plenty of football player....like, in the words of Jason Garrett
"He shows up on the tape. He leaps off the tape. He's a great football player. No question about that.''
Not getting value to move back? , they weren't getting value in the pick itself by taking a RB!
Could have traded with the ans after trading with the Ravens. There was plenty of value there seeing as the Browns fleeced them. Or we could have found someone in the mid teens wanting to move up for Ramsey anyways.Ah, yes, that's well and good. But it's not like the Cowboys had your evaluation and just messed it up. They considered Elliott a blue-chipper and didn't want to risk him for less than a third. I don't think Dallas would have had much of a market to move back beyond that, because as Ozzie said, no one called after Ramsey was picked. Dallas at six with their two favorites gone doesn't make a ton of sense. Hargreaves isn't an awful pick, but he has is own issues. They don't need a lineman. Buckner would have been all right as a right end that kicked inside, but he too has issues. It was Bosa or bust. And so it was bust. Don't think five years from the best back they could get is a horrible result from that.
And dude, Bucker was not a fit here ever. We were never going to take him. He's a 3-4 DE.
Last edited by jimbo; 05-04-2016 at 06:25 PM.
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