Pistons: :lol athletic bigs

[lefty]

Hmmm ... Let me guess why that is .... Oh, right, Jordan, a player in the late 80s to 90s expanded that game!

Boom.

[ambchang]

TD has about 2" in Russell:

I'm not sure what you are thinking, but I'm sure you will frown upon cross generational gay sex like how the klan frowns upon interracial relationships.

And 2"? Really?

And PG was a 6'7 rookie in that picture, he grew 2" to 6'9 from his rookie year:

[ambchang]

Kemp's ball handling was compared to a Griffin or Bron or any other point forwards it just looked great around other bigs/players that were also ball handlers. Everybody raves about Olajuwon's athleticism yet he couldn't even handle Kemp.

Kemp took years to fill his body out, look at the post above, he always gave Olajuwon trouble and was bullying him when he finally did fill out.

Olajuwon couldn't handle kemp? Really? Did you see those h2h stats? I mean, 8 points on 2 for 9 shooting? 6 points? 9 points? Wth kind of bullying is that?

And no, kemps ball handling is on par with the Griffins of the world. Lebron is once in a generation talent which is why I he's an all time great. Magic hand similar handles and vision and he was about the same height. Same with Larry bird what does athleticism have to deal with handling people. Duncan's one of the least story of players and he dominated for years, even after his legs gave out.
Zach Randolph, also one of the least athletic players around, plays griffin just fine.

Kemp bullied Olajuwon? Based on one YouTube clip? Oh right, let's just ignore all those h2h stats. Let's go with a 3 mi ute YouTube clip. Besides, Hakeem wasn't even guarding kemp on a lot of those athletic plays. The ones kemp scored on Hakeem which had nothing to do with athleticism.

Btw, you pushing kemp doesn't really help you because he was an athletic big in the 90s, you know, without all those superpower giving training and nutrition that's available nowadays?

[midnightpulp]

TD has about 2" in Russel:




And PG was a 6'7 rookie in that picture, he grew 2" to 6'9 from his rookie year:

You picture of Duncan and Russell is from the waist up. I know you posted that particular one because there's no other pictures that show Duncan being any taller than Russell

And "It was from Paul George's rookie year." That pic was taken when he signed his contract extension in 2013. Your photo is also taken from the waist up. The best photo out there of the two standing side by side shows Bird standing a good two inches above George. Also, your example was taken at a game, while the other photo was taken at a press conference. In the former, George would be wearing basketball shoes to Bird's dress shoes, and basketball shoes have thicker shoes. In the latter, both are wearing dress shoes.

And at Howard being as tall as Dream. The photo you posted yourself shows Hakeem standing a good 1" taller, not to mention showing his much longer wingspan. Also worth mentioning is that when you get older, you do start to shrink. About half an inch per decade after 40.

[Cessation]

NBA TV ratings plummeting since the 90's, in regular season, Finals, and all star games.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ielsen_ratings


today's NBA
two team league with inflated regular season records
Warriors "historic" season, during worst mass tanking NBA has ever seen
today's Center position
mental midgets, Dwert, Cousins, 50 year old Jim best defensive big
overrated, ref coddled softass wings, Harden, glass ankles Curry, Chucking Rapist, Beta Durant/LeRoid
even fatass Americans don't give a about today's NBA
TV ratings peaking in the 90's
aesthetically pleasing no-talent scrubs
gots

[KL2]

Olajuwon couldn't handle kemp? Really? Did you see those h2h stats? I mean, 8 points on 2 for 9 shooting? 6 points? 9 points? Wth kind of bullying is that?

You're an idiot, Olajuwon was already an established player, Kemp was a 230lb rookie in 89', it took him years to fill out his body and hone his game. There is a BIG difference between rookie & prime Kemp of about 30lbs of pure muscle.

And no, kemps ball handling is on par with the Griffins of the world. Lebron is once in a generation talent which is why I he's an all time great. Magic hand similar handles and vision and he was about the same height. Same with Larry bird what does athleticism have to deal with handling people. Duncan's one of the least story of players and he dominated for years, even after his legs gave out.
Zach Randolph, also one of the least athletic players around, plays griffin just fine.

Kemp could not handle the ball like Griffin, George, KD, Giannis, etc. if he could he would've been playing point guard like these guys do and NOBODY would've been able to stop him:



Johnson was tall but wasn't nearly as explosive as these guys , you really don't know what you're looking at, this dude looks nothing like Bron, he looks pretty damn slow, everyone else around him was just athletes so his ball handling looked special:



-Duncan & Z-Bo are surrounded by great defensive perimeter players that are able to counter and provide help defense, did you forget we've had the Green-Leonard combo all these years? You don't even realize that's one of the best perimeter duos ever .
It's much easier to defend the post and bigs in general when your help defenders aren't scrubs from the 80's/90s, this current Spurs squad would fare much better against Shaq's 00's Lakers with Green-Leonard as the help defenders as opposed to Bowen or Turkoglu.

Kemp bullied Olajuwon? Based on one YouTube clip? Oh right, let's just ignore all those h2h stats. Let's go with a 3 mi ute YouTube clip. Besides, Hakeem wasn't even guarding kemp on a lot of those athletic plays. The ones kemp scored on Hakeem which had nothing to do with athleticism.

Btw, you pushing kemp doesn't really help you because he was an athletic big in the 90s, you know, without all those superpower giving training and nutrition that's available nowadays?

Hakeem couldn't guard Kemp or keep him off the boards, way too big and agile, his perimeter defense on him was look how slow he was, he was forced to camp in the paint, HOU couldn't counter him, very few teams could, Kemp was a dominant player with such a limited skill set. Like I said, Olajuwon was lucky Kemp couldn't play point guard, nobody in the league would've been able to have countered him.

Kemp didn't fill out or start to peak until the mid 90's, he outplayed Olajuwon in the 95-96 playoffs, his prime was short lived due to him becoming an alcoholic the following off season. He came back in '96-97 bloated, out of shape and full of water weight from drinking so much, that was the beginning of the end for Kemp.

[KL2]

You picture of Duncan and Russell is from the waist up. I know you posted that particular one because there's no other pictures that show Duncan being any taller than Russell

And "It was from Paul George's rookie year." That pic was taken when he signed his contract extension in 2013. Your photo is also taken from the waist up. The best photo out there of the two standing side by side shows Bird standing a good two inches above George. Also, your example was taken at a game, while the other photo was taken at a press conference. In the former, George would be wearing basketball shoes to Bird's dress shoes, and basketball shoes have thicker shoes. In the latter, both are wearing dress shoes.

And at Howard being as tall as Dream. The photo you posted yourself shows Hakeem standing a good 1" taller, not to mention showing his much longer wingspan. Also worth mentioning is that when you get older, you do start to shrink. About half an inch per decade after 40.

-TD tends to slouch, he does have around 2" on him:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...259f5e93c6.jpg
(pic is too big)



-I assumed it was from his rookie year, however looking at the full pic Bird is standing slightly ahead of him, the pic is taken at a weird angle.
Look at Granger/Bird & Granger/George. PG is 6'9, the pic I provided is much more accurate.






-Howard has a much wider stance than Olajuwon, and your body doesn't break down that fast when you're a pro athlete like Olajuwon. Makes me really believe Mutombo lied about his age, cause you know, you could do that in the 80's/90s

Olajuwon has standing reach on Howard but not wingspan, Howard's has him beat by like 3"

[ambchang]

You're an idiot, Olajuwon was already an established player, Kemp was a 230lb rookie in 89', it took him years to fill out his body and hone his game. There is a BIG difference between rookie & prime Kemp of about 30lbs of pure muscle.

So I guess you REALLY didn't see those h2h stats. Those were in years 92 onwards.

Since you are a special kind of stupid, here you go again:
http://bkref.com/tiny/TK9po

- 8 points and 6 rebounds in 92, with Hakeem putting up 23 and 11
- 8 points on 3-13 shooting, while Hakeem was raining 23 on 9-14 shooting in 93
- 8 points on 2-9 shooting, while Hakeem got 26 on 10-20 shooting in 95
- 6 points on 2-7 shooting in 97 (Hakeem was already passed his prime at that point).

But what does it matter? Hakeem, as shown on the video you linked, didn't even guard Kemp most of the game.

Kemp could not handle the ball like Griffin, George, KD, Giannis, etc. if he could he would've been playing point guard like these guys do and NOBODY would've been able to stop him:

Barkley, Hakeem, Kemp were players who regularly handled the ball like that.

Just a random clip of Kemp:


Barkley guard skills:


And Kemp didn't play point guard because ... hmmm ... I don't know, maybe because he had Gary Payton, one of the best PGs ever playing that position? And why isn't Blake playing PG and killing everyone?

Johnson was tall but wasn't nearly as explosive as these guys , you really don't know what you're looking at, this dude looks nothing like Bron, he looks pretty damn slow, everyone else around him was just athletes so his ball handling looked special:

So you REALLY are that special type of stupid. I specifically said athleticism has nothing to do with it, and it is shown with Magic, and Bird, both unathletic guys, but players of about the same height, can handle the ball and manage the ball handling du

-Duncan & Z-Bo are surrounded by great defensive perimeter players that are able to counter and provide help defense, did you forget we've had the Green-Leonard combo all these years? You don't even realize that's one of the best perimeter duos ever .

, You do realize Duncan didn't spend the entire career playing with Leonard/Green, right? He played with Johnson and Jaren Jackson, he played with Steve Smith and Terry Porter, he managed despite his average athleticism. Same with Z-Bo, who managed to play Griffin well despite the huge discrepancies in athleticism. Even against Griffin, Duncan was fine against him WITHOUT Leonard and Green.

It's much easier to defend the post and bigs in general when your help defenders aren't scrubs from the 80's/90s, this current Spurs squad would fare much better against Shaq's 00's Lakers with Green-Leonard as the help defenders as opposed to Bowen or Turkoglu.

So in the previous sentence, you said Duncan had these great perimeter defenders, and now, you are saying Bowen and Turkoglu sucked? Then how did Duncan defend back then with these crappy defenders? Huh? And saying Green/Leonard > Bowen on defense. Bowen was one of the greatest defenders in the last 20 years.

Hakeem couldn't guard Kemp or keep him off the boards, way too big and agile, his perimeter defense on him was look how slow he was, he was forced to camp in the paint, HOU couldn't counter him, very few teams could, Kemp was a dominant player with such a limited skill set. Like I said, Olajuwon was lucky Kemp couldn't play point guard, nobody in the league would've been able to have countered him.

Limited skill set? Kemp could handle the ball, rebound, defend, shoot mid to semi long range jumpers, attack the paint, post up, run the court. Other than passing, most of his skills were elite.

And yeah, Hakeem was slow , what the were you smoking? Hakeem was quick as , he was chasing down PGs on fast breaks, and was one of the most agile bigs the game has ever seen. And then Hakeem couldn't handle Kemp, yet Kemp had multiple poor games vs. Hakeem during Kemp's prime. You are really horrible at this.

Kemp didn't fill out or start to peak until the mid 90's, he outplayed Olajuwon in the 95-96 playoffs, his prime was short lived due to him becoming an alcoholic the following off season. He came back in '96-97 bloated, out of shape and full of water weight from drinking so much, that was the beginning of the end for Kemp.

, Hakeem was limited because the entire Sonics collapsed on him, and played a very confusing/effective rotating defensive scheme honed in purely to stop Hakeem. Despite that, Hakeem STILL put up 19/10/4/2 vs. the Sonics. It clearly wasn't his best series (actually one of his worst), but those numbers are ones Griffin will kill for.

BTW, Kemp got seriously out of shape in the 99 lock out, get your facts straight before you spew your ill-informed, poorly researched bull .

[lefty]

ambchang have some mercy

[TrainOfThought5]

ambchang with one of the greatest ST destructions ive ever seen. *Salute*

[Stalin]

Ambchang, sending KL2 to the gulag.

[midnightpulp]

-TD tends to slouch, he does have around 2" on him:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...259f5e93c6.jpg
(pic is too big)



-I assumed it was from his rookie year, however looking at the full pic Bird is standing slightly ahead of him, the pic is taken at a weird angle.
Look at Granger/Bird & Granger/George. PG is 6'9, the pic I provided is much more accurate.






-Howard has a much wider stance than Olajuwon, and your body doesn't break down that fast when you're a pro athlete like Olajuwon. Makes me really believe Mutombo lied about his age, cause you know, you could do that in the 80's/90s

Olajuwon has standing reach on Howard but not wingspan, Howard's has him beat by like 3"

Those pictures prove my case. Granger stands about 1/2" below Bird, and in the pic alongside George, he's leaning while George is standing straight. Just look at the difference in shoulder height between George and Granger. Paul George 6'9"

And TD was not slouching in the pic I posted of him and Russell. Furthermore, Duncan is wearing his basketball shoes while Russell is wearing dress shoes.

Here's "6'9" Russell (wearing dress shoes) standing with "6'7" Kawhi.



Russell is a good 3-3.5" taller.

Another pic:



Russell is just bigger across the board. Bigger head, much wider frame, and even longer arms than the freakishly long Leonard.

[midnightpulp]

You're an idiot, Olajuwon was already an established player, Kemp was a 230lb rookie in 89', it took him years to fill out his body and hone his game. There is a BIG difference between rookie & prime Kemp of about 30lbs of pure muscle.



Kemp could not handle the ball like Griffin, George, KD, Giannis, etc. if he could he would've been playing point guard like these guys do and NOBODY would've been able to stop him:



Johnson was tall but wasn't nearly as explosive as these guys , you really don't know what you're looking at, this dude looks nothing like Bron, he looks pretty damn slow, everyone else around him was just athletes so his ball handling looked special:



-Duncan & Z-Bo are surrounded by great defensive perimeter players that are able to counter and provide help defense, did you forget we've had the Green-Leonard combo all these years? You don't even realize that's one of the best perimeter duos ever .
It's much easier to defend the post and bigs in general when your help defenders aren't scrubs from the 80's/90s, this current Spurs squad would fare much better against Shaq's 00's Lakers with Green-Leonard as the help defenders as opposed to Bowen or Turkoglu.



Hakeem couldn't guard Kemp or keep him off the boards, way too big and agile, his perimeter defense on him was look how slow he was, he was forced to camp in the paint, HOU couldn't counter him, very few teams could, Kemp was a dominant player with such a limited skill set. Like I said, Olajuwon was lucky Kemp couldn't play point guard, nobody in the league would've been able to have countered him.

Kemp didn't fill out or start to peak until the mid 90's, he outplayed Olajuwon in the 95-96 playoffs, his prime was short lived due to him becoming an alcoholic the following off season. He came back in '96-97 bloated, out of shape and full of water weight from drinking so much, that was the beginning of the end for Kemp.

Johnson's ball handling was exceptional. Like usual, since you're a dip millennial raised on youtube highlights, you equate flashy and excessive dribbling with "good" dribbling (is that why you were impressed with Julian Newman ). While it's impressive that Griffin can dribble like that for a big, those moves in that vid were excessive and unnecessary (and yes, Griffin can ball handle efficiently, but that video doesn't really help your case). Magic, despite relatively average athleticism, knew how to maximize distance using his tall frame and long arms (for a PG) taking the fewest amount of dribbles. And a fact you always handwave away is your neglecting of how an HIV ravaged Magic returned after a 5 year layoff and put up very solid numbers at a time when the league was more athletic than ever.

If you're trying to suggest that Magic wouldn't be a great player (in a vacuum) in today's league, there's ZERO evidence to support that claim.

And re: Hakeem vs. Kemp. In the 96 matchup, Kemp was at his basketball peak (26), and the best PF in the league for that season, while Hakeem was on the downward slope at 33. For as much as you excuse the performance of younger players against vets with the "body filling out" excuse (which is actually a legit idea, even if you misuse it the majority of the time), you never acknowledge the other side, like your stupid claim that the reason Lebron can't dominate like he once did anymore is because Giannis and Paul George's bodies have filled out . Never mind the fact Lebron is 31, in his 13th season, and with a load of miles on his body. And yet, he's metrically still a top 2-3 player in the league

You probably think I'm arguing out of some misplaced nostalgia, but no. I've admitted several times that the overall game has massively evolved since the 80's. I just take issue with your unrealistic overrating of modern day players, as if they're superheroes or some , and that older players, if transported here from their era wouldn't be able to learn the skills necessary to be great players in this era. If a 19 year old Magic were teleported here, does he go on to dominate like did in the 80's? Probably not, but he would still be a perennial all-star and yearly MVP candidate. Not a poor man's Efrid Payton or something like you would probably claim.

[SquawkinHawkBigCock]

ambchang going nuclear

[apalisoc_9]

KL2 ing all the girls in this thread in all holes

[spurraider21]

KL2 ing all the girls in this thread in all holes

[KL2]

So I guess you REALLY didn't see those h2h stats. Those were in years 92 onwards.

Since you are a special kind of stupid, here you go again:
http://bkref.com/tiny/TK9po

- 8 points and 6 rebounds in 92, with Hakeem putting up 23 and 11
- 8 points on 3-13 shooting, while Hakeem was raining 23 on 9-14 shooting in 93
- 8 points on 2-9 shooting, while Hakeem got 26 on 10-20 shooting in 95
- 6 points on 2-7 shooting in 97 (Hakeem was already passed his prime at that point).

But what does it matter? Hakeem, as shown on the video you linked, didn't even guard Kemp most of the game.

Kemp was still inexperienced in '92, he barely became starter that year, like I said, it took him years to hone his game and put on weight.
Kemp was also struggling with alcohol/coke in '97 lmao, his prime was short lived. Olajuwon couldn't guard Kemp, Kemp was just 1 dimensional as so his offense was limited.

Barkley, Hakeem, Kemp were players who regularly handled the ball like that.

Just a random clip of Kemp:


Barkley guard skills:

And Kemp didn't play point guard because ... hmmm ... I don't know, maybe because he had Gary Payton, one of the best PGs ever playing that position? And why isn't Blake playing PG and killing everyone?

So you REALLY are that special type of stupid. I specifically said athleticism has nothing to do with it, and it is shown with Magic, and Bird, both unathletic guys, but players of about the same height, can handle the ball and manage the ball handling du

Now I really know you have no idea what you're watching, their ball handling is and they don't move nearly as fluidly, especially Kemp's ball handling compared to these modern point forwards. These guys looked amazing around the Sleepy Floyds and Abdul-Raufs of the league, it's different playing against guys like Leonard and Green

, You do realize Duncan didn't spend the entire career playing with Leonard/Green, right? He played with Johnson and Jaren Jackson, he played with Steve Smith and Terry Porter, he managed despite his average athleticism. Same with Z-Bo, who managed to play Griffin well despite the huge discrepancies in athleticism. Even against Griffin, Duncan was fine against him WITHOUT Leonard and Green.

Duncan was a very mobile big coming out of college, you keep acting like a stiff lmao. Even scouts were comparing his mobility to the likes of Olajuwon, do you really not remember how well he moved when he was younger?

So in the previous sentence, you said Duncan had these great perimeter defenders, and now, you are saying Bowen and Turkoglu sucked? Then how did Duncan defend back then with these crappy defenders? Huh? And saying Green/Leonard > Bowen on defense. Bowen was one of the greatest defenders in the last 20 years.

Perimeter players and teams have gotten much better, you should really stop posting, you're embarrassing yourself. Did you forget how far we've come from the days of Bron being able to lead his Cavs team to 60 wins with starters like Boobie Gibson, Illgauskus, Pavlovic, Hughes, etc.? That Pistons series they just swept was pretty compe ive, and that's with help from Irving, Smith, Thompson, Love, etc. they'd smash Bron's old 60 wins Cavs team

Limited skill set? Kemp could handle the ball, rebound, defend, shoot mid to semi long range jumpers, attack the paint, post up, run the court. Other than passing, most of his skills were elite.

And yeah, Hakeem was slow , what the were you smoking? Hakeem was quick as , he was chasing down PGs on fast breaks, and was one of the most agile bigs the game has ever seen. And then Hakeem couldn't handle Kemp, yet Kemp had multiple poor games vs. Hakeem during Kemp's prime. You are really horrible at this.


, Hakeem was limited because the entire Sonics collapsed on him, and played a very confusing/effective rotating defensive scheme honed in purely to stop Hakeem. Despite that, Hakeem STILL put up 19/10/4/2 vs. the Sonics. It clearly wasn't his best series (actually one of his worst), but those numbers are ones Griffin will kill for.

BTW, Kemp got seriously out of shape in the 99 lock out, get your facts straight before you spew your ill-informed, poorly researched bull .

Kemp did have a limited skill set, his ball handling was poor compared to modern point forwards. He could get whatever he wanted on the perimeter, but if his shot wasn't falling he wasn't scoring and wound up with those 8pt games. And Kemp had been dealing with coke/alcohol problems mid 90's, that's why his production declined so rapidly.



Kemp was practically got whatever he wanted, just started missing point blank layups and wide open jumpers. Olajuwon had very few great defensive plays against him in '97. Dude was limited, Hakeem is lucky he was. Kemp's prime was short lived, his play started to rapidly declining once he started doing coke/alcohol in the mid 90's.

and Olajuwon generally struggled against SEA due to their defense containing elements of zone which is now legal , like I said, it's much harder for bigs to thrive in the post like they once did against modern defenses.

[KL2]

Johnson's ball handling was exceptional. Like usual, since you're a dip millennial raised on youtube highlights, you equate flashy and excessive dribbling with "good" dribbling (is that why you were impressed with Julian Newman ). While it's impressive that Griffin can dribble like that for a big, those moves in that vid were excessive and unnecessary (and yes, Griffin can ball handle efficiently, but that video doesn't really help your case). Magic, despite relatively average athleticism, knew how to maximize distance using his tall frame and long arms (for a PG) taking the fewest amount of dribbles. And a fact you always handwave away is your neglecting of how an HIV ravaged Magic returned after a 5 year layoff and put up very solid numbers at a time when the league was more athletic than ever.

Johnson had very little on the ball pressure and those defenses were porous. These days you can put a guy like Leonard on him and have him challenge him full court forcing him to give up the ball, forwards that are able to counter Magic's size are literally everywhere. Magic was guarded by some really defenders, half of them you don't even remember

I was also fooled by thinking Magic was 6'9, he's really closer to 6'7, another exaggerated height, makes what he did even less impressive.
Magic came back as a backup for 30 games in a lockout shortened season with everyone out of shape, anything is possible in those conditions.


Newman's ball handling is insanely good for a 10 year old lol, it's going to get significantly better.



If you're trying to suggest that Magic wouldn't be a great player (in a vacuum) in today's league, there's ZERO evidence to support that claim.

And re: Hakeem vs. Kemp. In the 96 matchup, Kemp was at his basketball peak (26), and the best PF in the league for that season, while Hakeem was on the downward slope at 33. For as much as you excuse the performance of younger players against vets with the "body filling out" excuse (which is actually a legit idea, even if you misuse it the majority of the time), you never acknowledge the other side, like your stupid claim that the reason Lebron can't dominate like he once did anymore is because Giannis and Paul George's bodies have filled out . Never mind the fact Lebron is 31, in his 13th season, and with a load of miles on his body. And yet, he's metrically still a top 2-3 player in the league

You probably think I'm arguing out of some misplaced nostalgia, but no. I've admitted several times that the overall game has massively evolved since the 80's. I just take issue with your unrealistic overrating of modern day players, as if they're superheroes or some , and that older players, if transported here from their era wouldn't be able to learn the skills necessary to be great players in this era. If a 19 year old Magic were teleported here, does he go on to dominate like did in the 80's? Probably not, but he would still be a perennial all-star and yearly MVP candidate. Not a poor man's Efrid Payton or something like you would probably claim.

Hakeem was fully filled out in the mid 90's, younger Hakeem was raw and much lighter. Pick which version you want, younger Hakeem would get demolished by Kemp's size, only an older version is able to counter it and fare much better.

Bron was leading his Cavs team filled with borderline NBA players to 60 wins, he would not be able to do the same thing in today's league when he's struggling to get 57 wins with Love-Irving-Smith-Thompson etc. the 8th seed Pistons just gave them a compe ive series, they would've beaten Bron's old Cavs team.


As far as bigs from the 90s go, much of the peak players at the position would still be able to play in today's league, however it's the smaller positions where we've seen the most increase in talent.

[ambchang]

Kemp was still inexperienced in '92, he barely became starter that year, like I said, it took him years to hone his game and put on weight.
Kemp was also struggling with alcohol/coke in '97 lmao, his prime was short lived. Olajuwon couldn't guard Kemp, Kemp was just 1 dimensional as so his offense was limited.

, every time he had a bad game, it was because he was inexperienced or he was struggling with some kind of problem. Kemp made the allstar game from 93 to 98, he was all nba 2nd team 94 to 96, he had MVP votes 93, 94, 96 and 99. Yeah, his prime was short lived, but 92 and 97 was part of his prime. Kemp was a malcontent in Seattle because of contract issues, he struggled with weight, and later had his alcohol problems in full view during/after the 99 lockout.

http://ca.complex.com/sports/2013/09...hol/shawn-kemp

However, when Kemp got to Portland in 2000, things only went from bad to worse. He began abusing cocaine and alcohol during the lockout of 1999 and saw his numbers dip from 17.5 PPG in Cleveland to just 6.5 PPG during his first year with the Trailblazers. Ultimately, Kemp's career would never recover, and the greatest in-game dunker—once thought to be a lock for the Hall of Fame—spent the last of his playing days attempting one failed comeback after another.

Come to think of it, I am surprised you didn't post this article because, you know, you have a habit of posting thing that contradict what you are trying to prove.

And oh, what happened to 93 and 95? Is his prime only in 94 and 96 now? Is his prime on game by game basis? You know, he was at his prime Saturday, but he went take a dump, lost two pounds, meaning he wasn't at his optimum weight on Monday vs. Hakeem in the game, so he was technically out of his prime that game. Is that how it goes?

As for your 1-dimension comment, see below.

Now I really know you have no idea what you're watching, their ball handling is and they don't move nearly as fluidly, especially Kemp's ball handling compared to these modern point forwards. These guys looked amazing around the Sleepy Floyds and Abdul-Raufs of the league, it's different playing against guys like Leonard and Green

You know, Kemp's ball handling was just fine, on par with Griffin, and same as Barkley. Who, guess what, are all PF. BTW, what other PF in today's advance bio-mechanical league have these advanced ball-handling skills? Ibaka? Or has his body filled out yet to handle these advance skills?

As for no idea what I am watching, I know what I watched showed Kemp and Barkley leading breaks and breaking down defense. I also saw in pictures you posted showing how much Dwight is shorter than Hakeem, or George shorter than Bird though. you talking about people don't know what they are watching, I mean, you practically post evidence contrary to what you are trying to prove in every post. It's like you are actively trying to prove you are a re (of which you are VERY successful at).

Duncan was a very mobile big coming out of college, you keep acting like a stiff lmao. Even scouts were comparing his mobility to the likes of Olajuwon, do you really not remember how well he moved when he was younger?

Mobility and athleticism is the same thing now? And why are you taking Hakeem as some sort of benchmark? I thought he was horrible! Can't even guard a no-ball-handling scrub like Kemp.

Perimeter players and teams have gotten much better, you should really stop posting, you're embarrassing yourself. Did you forget how far we've come from the days of Bron being able to lead his Cavs team to 60 wins with starters like Boobie Gibson, Illgauskus, Pavlovic, Hughes, etc.? That Pistons series they just swept was pretty compe ive, and that's with help from Irving, Smith, Thompson, Love, etc. they'd smash Bron's old 60 wins Cavs team

Maybe because the East just sucked back then? You know what? The 07 Spurs swept that team, because that team really sucked.

Too bad Bron's body didn't fill out back then, eh? They couldn't have demolished the Spurs

Kemp did have a limited skill set, his ball handling was poor compared to modern point forwards. He could get whatever he wanted on the perimeter, but if his shot wasn't falling he wasn't scoring and wound up with those 8pt games. And Kemp had been dealing with coke/alcohol problems mid 90's, that's why his production declined so rapidly.



Kemp was practically got whatever he wanted, just started missing point blank layups and wide open jumpers. Olajuwon had very few great defensive plays against him in '97. Dude was limited, Hakeem is lucky he was. Kemp's prime was short lived, his play started to rapidly declining once he started doing coke/alcohol in the mid 90's.

and Olajuwon generally struggled against SEA due to their defense containing elements of zone which is now legal , like I said, it's much harder for bigs to thrive in the post like they once did against modern defenses.

Hmm, point forwards in today's game .... George, Lebron, Kawhi, who else ... wait, they are all SF! Holy ! Is it true that SF generally have better handles than PF? Oh my, that is one of the most profound revelations I have ever read! OMG, what I am going to do with this new found knowledge. Can you tell me, oh great one, whether PG have better handles than Centers?

getting whatever he wanted, yet in the video you posted the commentators were talking about how bad he was playing in the 2nd half because he got shut down by Hakeem.

You said he was 1-dimensional? In the video you posted, he drove, had mid/long range jumpers, drove, ran fast break, right hooks, floaters, finger rolls. He was shut down by Hakeem in the 2nd half though, but then Hakeem was one of the greatest defenders ever, so I can't really blame Kemp.