Mountaintop Monastery of Dejounte Murray

[MannyIsGod]

Pop made some stupid decisions with how to guard him. Sending Jakob on a double team was just insanely dumb. Poeltl has no shot at helping trap him and once you bring him out who's going to guard the rim? Just stupid.

[Chinook]

The solution would have been to have KBD guard Adams and having Jakob guard Anderson/JJJ/Clarke. Of course then you have a hard time on the boards.

Anyway, Murray's never been a shut-down guy. Literally never. It's not his thing, and that's not where his defensive effectiveness comes from. The Spurs don't have a one-on-one guard defender. These are things that have been known, but I guess folks wanted to believe it would be some back-and-forth duel. Those are the kinds of expectations for Murray that will lead to him disappointing people -- at least right now. He's not a great one-on-one scorer or defender. To this point, he's not a good bet to win that way. He's a much better bet to have a great all-around game while other guys play well enough to blunt the difference. Despite how much Morant scored, the Spurs had chances to win the game. That's probably where Murray and the Spurs should focus rather than DJM thinking he needs to match Ja himself.

[John B]

The solution would have been to have KBD guard Adams and having Jakob guard Anderson/JJJ/Clarke. Of course then you have a hard time on the boards.

Anyway, Murray's never been a shut-down guy. Literally never. It's not his thing, and that's not where his defensive effectiveness comes from. The Spurs don't have a one-on-one guard defender. These are things that have been known, but I guess folks wanted to believe it would be some back-and-forth duel. Those are the kinds of expectations for Murray that will lead to him disappointing people -- at least right now. He's not a great one-on-one scorer or defender. To this point, he's not a good bet to win that way. He's a much better bet to have a great all-around game while other guys play well enough to blunt the difference. Despite how much Morant scored, the Spurs had chances to win the game. That's probably where Murray and the Spurs should focus rather than DJM thinking he needs to match Ja himself.

Ja is a career 32.6% 3pt shooter. He hit from downtown, but he’s better in the rim and mid-range. I think DJ goes under and force Ja to shoot outside and not attack the rim. I know Spurs strategy is to switch, but Poeltl gets burn with athletic guards

[daslicer]

Damn both Dallas and Memphis have their franchise players. We have one lower end all star. NO has a Zion problem thankfully or else they would be cooking us right now, and Houston can’t draft. It’s a race at the bottom to see who can consistently get that 3rd spot in the division.

I mean imagine if Zion wasn’t an immature POS. We would be screwed for the foreseeable future in our own division nvm the west as a whole

I'm not concerned with those other teams right now. Spurs are still a lottery team and are several moves away from being a playoff team again. When the spurs are a playoff team again, I will care.

Things can change in the future. You can't predict the next 5 years. JA could get a serious injury since guys who play his style historically tend to always blow out their knees eventually. Luka could leave Dallas in a few years when he's an unrestricted FA if they don't improve. Also, nobody knows who the Spurs will draft in the future. They might get lucky and end up drafting a franchise player that can match those two guys you listed.

[TDomination]

Pop made some stupid decisions with how to guard him. Sending Jakob on a double team was just insanely dumb. Poeltl has no shot at helping trap him and once you bring him out who's going to guard the rim? Just stupid.

agreed, as our only rim protector, they got to find a way to keep him there.

[Trill Clinton]

Morant is the best PG in the league. Murray struggling to stop him is not a surprise.

[KobesAchilles]

I'm not concerned with those other teams right now. Spurs are still a lottery team and are several moves away from being a playoff team again. When the spurs are a playoff team again, I will care.

Things can change in the future. You can't predict the next 5 years. JA could get a serious injury since guys who play his style historically tend to always blow out their knees eventually. Luka could leave Dallas in a few years when he's an unrestricted FA if they don't improve. Also, nobody knows who the Spurs will draft in the future. They might get lucky and end up drafting a franchise player that can match those two guys you listed.

I mean wishing for injuries is a bad take. He could get hurt! That way we never have to deal with him ever again. I could see Luka going to LA though and be their new face of the league. Would be a of a move. But it’s also hard to turn down a $250 million dollar contract extension.

Spurs need a lot of luck/talent in the lotto. It doesn’t have to be the #1 pick but it does need to be a generational talent type of player

[MannyIsGod]

They usually mean homecourt advantage which is pretty important in the playoffs. Also it was a reference to another thread. My point though is that if we have 3 other playoff teams ahead of us in our own division then it makes it much more difficult not only for us to make the playoffs (since we face division teams the most) but also to advance in the playoffs

I mean its impossible to stay ahead of those teams forever. Spurs did so for 20 years basically and now we're on the other end of the spectrum where they have a franchise player and we don't. But Ja isn't the first time that the Grizz have had amazing young talent. They had two with the Gasol brothers and still had marginal success. Dallas had success with Dirk and they'll probably have success with Luka but those teams having stars never stopped the Spurs in the past so while that doesn't mean the Spurs are going to magically always be above those teams it does mean that those teams success is not a given and it really has no influence on how the Spurs should proceed.

Spurs just need to find a franchise player. DJM - in all honestly and as much as I love him - is probably never going to be a #1 option successfully. Spurs fans should probably understand that this process - if it lasts as long for us as it did for say, Memphis, may last for a really long time.

[Atl Spur]

We will be relevant again soon but maybe not on a championship level for awhile.

[TD 21]

Anyway, Murray's never been a shut-down guy. Literally never. It's not his thing, and that's not where his defensive effectiveness comes from. The Spurs don't have a one-on-one guard defender.

Yeah, this notion that they have the guts of a good defense in the core to needs to die. I realize having to start a liability in McDermott has hurt all of their metrics, but Poeltl, Murray and Vassell, are all scrawny (which limits their switch ability) and better off ball than on and Johnson struggles outside of post ups.

This goes back to what I was saying in preseason, which is this team is loaded with scrawny, t-rex armed types and it's killing them in terms of weakside rim protection/defensive rebounding and opponent field goal % from virtually every range.

[daslicer]

I mean wishing for injuries is a bad take. He could get hurt! That way we never have to deal with him ever again. I could see Luka going to LA though and be their new face of the league. Would be a of a move. But it’s also hard to turn down a $250 million dollar contract extension.

Spurs need a lot of luck/talent in the lotto. It doesn’t have to be the #1 pick but it does need to be a generational talent type of player

I'm definitely not wishing for injury on Ja. I actually like watching the kid. I'm just saying there is a high chance he will get hurt with his style of play.

[daslicer]

I mean its impossible to stay ahead of those teams forever. Spurs did so for 20 years basically and now we're on the other end of the spectrum where they have a franchise player and we don't. But Ja isn't the first time that the Grizz have had amazing young talent. They had two with the Gasol brothers and still had marginal success. Dallas had success with Dirk and they'll probably have success with Luka but those teams having stars never stopped the Spurs in the past so while that doesn't mean the Spurs are going to magically always be above those teams it does mean that those teams success is not a given and it really has no influence on how the Spurs should proceed.

Spurs just need to find a franchise player. DJM - in all honestly and as much as I love him - is probably never going to be a #1 option successfully. Spurs fans should probably understand that this process - if it lasts as long for us as it did for say, Memphis, may last for a really long time.

I see DJM in the mold of Gary Payton. He needs a high flying big like Payton had with Shawn Kemp. Granted those types of bigs are very hard to get but my hope is somehow the Spurs can attain that type of player through the draft.

[KobesAchilles]

I'm definitely not wishing for injury on Ja. I actually like watching the kid. I'm just saying there is a high chance he will get hurt with his style of play.

Normally I agree but he isn't really doing that much. Like yeah he has some big dunks, but normally he just shoots lay ups and floaters. Like Tony did and others who never got hurt. Plus Ja can shoot when he needs to shoot the ball. Plus in today's league the lane is open all the time and he isn't really getting hammered or anything. Ja has all types of tricks in his bag which makes him different then let's say a Westbrook or Rose, neither of which could shoot. And today, a torn MCL/ACL isn't that big a deal.

The only injury players have to worry about today are thigh bruises. Those things can't even be diagnosed properly nevermind treated...

[KobesAchilles]

I see DJM in the mold of Gary Payton. He needs a high flying big like Payton had with Shawn Kemp. Granted those types of bigs are very hard to get but my hope is somehow the Spurs can attain that type of player through the draft.

Gary was the man. if Karl was as smart of a coach as he think he was, the Supersonics would've won a ring that year. How do you not put a guy nicknamed the ing Glove on the opponents best player? I would be happy if DJ can get to that level of player, but he needs to be a LOT more vocal about everything. The thing about Gary was that he got ALL of his own players in line as well as the opponents and the refs. Dude just talked the whole game long. I don't know if DJ has that type of personality. Gary was a jackass to everyone on the court. DJ not so much

[John B]

^ Gary Payton of the 75 All-Time best ever?

Okay, that part is a joke. Tony and Manu should be there before GP, Lilliard and Pierce.

Anyways, GP was a lockdown defender. DJ is not. Can DJ become a lockdown defender? Maybe, with his length and nose on D. But he gambles too much to get the steal, which he’s the league leader, plus the triple-doubles. It makes you think, why change? I’m not saying DJ pads stats, but I hope he finds the balance between personal stats = W.

[KingKev]

DJ fined 20 racks for throwing the ball at the ref Monday.

[daslicer]

Gary was the man. if Karl was as smart of a coach as he think he was, the Supersonics would've won a ring that year. How do you not put a guy nicknamed the ing Glove on the opponents best player? I would be happy if DJ can get to that level of player, but he needs to be a LOT more vocal about everything. The thing about Gary was that he got ALL of his own players in line as well as the opponents and the refs. Dude just talked the whole game long. I don't know if DJ has that type of personality. Gary was a jackass to everyone on the court. DJ not so much

Personality wise he's not GP but his body and length and athleticism is very similar to GP. When I said GP I'm saying his style of play can be patterned after GP. He has the ability to be lockdown defender like GP and has improved his playmaking where he can set up guys.

[T-Pain]

I just hope he can keep this momentum up and keep the spurs in the running.

[Chinook]

Murray's never even been a good individual defender, let alone a lockdown guy. I really think folks are setting themselves and Murray up for disappointment by assuming it's in his future. Murray is a free safety, and folks keep thinking that just because he's good at intercepting passes that he can be a shutdown corner. Obviously things are possible, but he's farther away from being an elite one-on-one defender than he is being an elite spot-up shooter, for example.

The Spurs for years were spoiled with a perimeter duo who were both excellent in individual defense and among the best in the league in help defense (Leonard being a steals master and Green being one of the best shot-blocking guards of his generation). With them and Splitter, there wasn't a player in the league the Spurs couldn't stifle without sacrificing their defensive integrity. Add in the best phonebooth defender in perhaps NBA history and a few other underrated defenders for their positions), and Spurs fans basically never had to worry about one player destroying them game in and game out.

They don't have that now. Vassell might have a chance to be a guy like that, but right now he doesn't have the seasoning. White was a very good wing defender, but he's gone. Jones is serviceable, and Primo has shown potential. Make no mistake, though, the Spurs could benefit from drafting a defense-oriented guard with one of their first-rounders, if not two. In general, I think we should be prepared to accept that the Spurs may not be able to fill their old defensive scheme. Poeltl isn't the one-on-one defender Splitter was, but he's still a great rim protector. Like Murray, Jakob probably would benefit from having a front-court mate or backup more explicitly specializing in man defense. Johnson's offensive growth has been very good, and it might not make sense to bench him, even though that jeopardizes the SL's defensive integrity. What it's going to take for the Spurs to start winning a lot of games again might be to abandon defense and just get their shooting down. It might be to get even more off-ball defenders and having everyone fly around helping while limiting the play-time for straight liabilities. We'll see. But I do think the team needs to not go into future match-ups with Memphis expecting Murray to lock down Morant. It's not fair for him or the team.

[KingKev]

^ great take. Murray has enough on his plate as is.

DJ, Green, Leonard would have been a damn fun trio to watch in the defensive end though.

[duncan2k5]

I agree... Murray has never been a lockdown defender because he simply inst physical enough, and doesn't have the instincts... And that's ok... Most players aren't lockdown defender... What's important is that he isn't trash on defense... And he isn't... What he needs to learn from someone like Ja is how to attack a defense and go hard to the rim to collapse the D

[KingKev]

Murray just needs talent around him and than he can really hone in on what he does best. The trio of Vassell, McDermott and Keldon will never cut it. Those are 3 solid bench guys but when Jak is your second best player it doesn’t make your job as a point guard very easy especially when Murray was more of a tweener to begin with.

[daslicer]

I agree... Murray has never been a lockdown defender because he simply inst physical enough, and doesn't have the instincts... And that's ok... Most players aren't lockdown defender... What's important is that he isn't trash on defense... And he isn't... What he needs to learn from someone like Ja is how to attack a defense and go hard to the rim to collapse the D

Ja is a super athlete. He's probably the most athletic player in the NBA. You can't teach his quickness and his hops. His game is not a game that Murray can replicate.

[exstatic]

I'm definitely not wishing for injury on Ja. I actually like watching the kid. I'm just saying there is a high chance he will get hurt with his style of play.

Just look to Derrick Rose for a example.

[MultiTroll]

DJM did throw the ball at the ref, sorry to say.
Ejection worthy? No, but refs can't be expected to draw endless lines as to what is a bad toss or not.