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  1. #126
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Diego: Dirk

    Messi: Malone
    Most folks have Malone over Dirk in the all-time list, tbh.

  2. #127
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    Diego did kick the out of a Brazilian in '82 and that was pretty much the end of the World Cup for Argentina. So he did learn a thing or two about retaliating, tbh... he was also a much bigger flopper than Messi, no doubt about it, he sometimes abused the fact that he'll get the benefit of the doubt.

    There always was grabbing, etc, but now they have that gay of rolling back the play and calling a foul, that didn't exist back then. Check at 2:36 in that video, that's a vicious kick, and not only no foul is called, but since the ref didn't call it, it's not even a yellow card. Especially in South America, going to play to Peru or Montevideo, you always had very partial refs to the home team (hasn't changed a lot, tbh), and they'll kick the out of you.

    I think it's funny you bring that video for two reasons: 1) Bolivia (the home team) was the runner up in that Copa America (crofl Bolivia being top anything), which ties perfectly with what I was saying, and 2) Uruguay had a pretty good team back then, with prime Enzo, and if you recall, we had a lot of trouble beating them in the '86 World Cup (I think it was Pasculli that scored the only gol).

    Passarella was always un milico, and he definitely was important in the '78 cup. He kind of gave importance to the central defender position, tbh, we had some very good talent with personality in that area that followed his lead (Ruggeri, Brown, Samuel), but that's actually something we didn't really renew for a bunch of years, and it's been costing us a lot (det defense). But Daniel was a total bag, no doubt about it, and Bilardo should get all the credit for picking sides and making the right choice there too.

    And sure, nobody is saying Diego was the perfect player (neither is Messi, nor was Pele I'm pretty sure, even if I didn't see much of him). As far as '86, he really was the guy that beat England and later on, Belgium. He was completely brilliant in those games, and it would be difficult to argue that we would have won them without him. He was key against Italy in the 1st round, another team that was not only the defending champ, but very physical also. Same thing with beating Brazil in the '90 WC. Caniggia scored, but the play was all Diego.

    All that said, I know the Bilardo hate is strong with a bunch of people over there, but he really did know how to put together a team. Some people argue he's a product of Maradona (and you could say that to an extent, you need the star), but he understood what was needed around him, and put a lot of utilitarian players (which were solid, not doubt), and ultimately even guys like Valdano, who was coming from Real Madrid, ended up doing a lot of dirty work on defense, etc, to eventually win that .

    I'm kinda fascinated with all the technical articles that have been coming up these last few weeks in celebration of the 30th anniversary of 1986. I remember back then Bilardo saying he changed football, and I remember thinking, the ego got to this guy. But looking back now, from a tactical standpoint (and looking at the vendehumos like Basile, Tata, even Diego or Passarella as coaches), he really was a step forward as far as tactical planning, and his lineups, while they looked odd back then, were definitely spot on for the adversary we were playing. He's a guy that IMO doesn't get enough credit.
    I think Bilardo was a true coach and not a product of Droga and if we had a coach with at least a fraction of his OCD in our NT teams things would have been so different because now you have much more access to info about your opponents than he had in the 80´s.
    Lol also he had that streaky thing you know about mufa people/bad luck guys, and if you went to a game and everything ended up like Bilardo would say you are mufa... dont come to our games

  3. #128
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    What the did he do there? That assist to Caniggia. Nothing more.

    Messi '14 WC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Maradona '90 WC, and then some.

    But yet, here you are saying Maradona "silenced any critics" with his '90 WC performance but saying Messi couldn't do the same.

    This is the I talk about when I say many folks tend to overrated Maradona's achievments, tbh.
    The '90 team was terrible, basically past prime Maradona, Cani, park the bus and then Goyco for the penalties. Honestly the last thing I expected was that Argentina could beat Brazil but Maradona made that possible. Nor I thought they could take out Italy at home in the semi-final. The thing is Argentina wildly overachieved at ('86 and) '90 mundial(s).

  4. #129
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    The '90 team was terrible, basically past prime Maradona, Cani, park the bus and then Goyco for the penalties. Honestly the last thing I expected was that Argentina could beat Brazil but Maradona made that possible. Nor I thought they could take out Italy at home in the semi-final. The thing is Argentina wildly overachieved at ('86 and) '90 mundial(s).
    Cool, that still doesn't make Maradona's individual performance on that WC anything special, tbh.

  5. #130
    Believe.
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    Not really, players dont run the whole field in 6 seconds and dont make goals from 50 meters, same with BB players they are not faster and they should be doing freethrow line dunks all the time.
    Players are more ripped sure but that doesnt mean they are stronger/faster.
    ehh I don't know, when I look at highlights from the 60's all I see is a bunch of unathletic players trying to stop pele tbh, I think Pele was just ahead of his time but I hate how they make it seem like he's the god of football

  6. #131
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Most folks have Malone over Dirk in the all-time list, tbh.
    Except in the "Big" games

  7. #132
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    You are so right son. I mean, look at what the press said about Maradona before '86.


    They called him a "failure"

    Then '86 came and all was forgotten.

    '86. a WC. One tournament. One month. And the myth was created.
    Not just the '86 WC, at Napoli he's very highly regarded. Even has his #10 retired which is unheard of in football. That team won two Serie A scudettos, when they never won any before or after him.

    Once again, wildly overachieved. This time no Bilardo.

  8. #133
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Not just the '86 WC, at Napoli he's very highly regarded. Even has his #10 retired which is unheard of in football. That team won two Serie A scudettos, when they never won any before or after him.

    Once again, wildly overachieved. This time no Bilardo.
    That's another fairy tale of the Maradona legend, that Napoly was a small team. That might have been the story on history, but at that particular time Napoly was stacked (they had a top 3 roster for the Italian league). I mean, they bought the Brazilian NT number 9 and the best player in the World and you are trying to tell me they were a poor small club?

  9. #134
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    it did not last long tbh

    Messi apologists trying to dismish Maradona legacy

    It was expected tho

    In no time those two dudes will declare Diego is not even a top 10 all time but a lucky guy that would have been forgotten if not for a lucky month in 86

    tbh

  10. #135
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    That's another fairy tale of the Maradona legend, that Napoly was a small team. That might have been the story on history, but at that particular time Napoly was stacked (they had a top 3 roster for the Italian league). I mean, they bought the Brazilian NT number 9 and the best player in the World and you are trying to tell me they were a poor small club?
    Milan had Van Basten, Gullit, Baresi, Maldini and Rijkaard. Juve had Platini and several players from the '82 WC champion team.

  11. #136
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Milan had Van Basten, Gullit, Baresi, Maldini and Rijkaard. Juve had Platini and several players from the '82 WC champion team.
    Yeah, so? Does that mean Napoly wasn't stacked too?

  12. #137
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    Yeah, so? Does that mean Napoly wasn't stacked too?
    Ah, Inter was garbage too with Matthäus, Brehme, "pelado" Diaz and Klinsmann.

  13. #138
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    it did not last long tbh

    Messi apologists trying to dismish Maradona legacy

    It was expected tho

    In no time those two dudes will declare Diego is not even a top 10 all time but a lucky guy that would have been forgotten if not for a lucky month in 86

    tbh
    How is posting facts and giving a little context "disminishing" Maradona's career?

    Maradona is without a doubt a top 5 player of all-time, the best of his generation and arguably the greatest of all-time. We are just explaining that he wasn't a flawed God, tbh. That's all.

  14. #139
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Ah, Inter was garbage too with Matthäus, Brehme, "pelado" Diaz and Klinsmann.
    Still not explaining why you said Napoly was "small", tbh.

  15. #140
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    Still not explaining why you said Napoly was "small", tbh.
    The Napoli 86-87 squad wasn't stacked, things improved gradually to the 89-90 team which figured Alemão, Careca also better known Italian players. In the first champion squad, Diego was the only foreigner.

    Serie A was the best league at the time, and since it's long Robin round tournament the best team wins always. So, there it goes.

  16. #141
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    Sincerely, I don't see Messi making such a difference.
    But well, everyone has his opinion.

  17. #142
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    How is posting facts and giving a little context "disminishing" Maradona's career?

    Maradona is without a doubt a top 5 player of all-time, the best of his generation and arguably the greatest of all-time. We are just explaining that he wasn't a flawed God, tbh. That's all.
    just explaining that Maradona is: "'86. a WC. One tournament. One month. And the myth was created." oh and his time with Napoli was overrated, Napoli was stacked etc etc is not dismishing his legacy ?

    oh and nobody has ever said he was flawless tbh

  18. #143
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    just explaining that Maradona is: "'86. a WC. One tournament. One month. And the myth was created." oh and his time with Napoli was overrated, Napoli was stacked etc etc is not dismishing his legacy ?

    oh and nobody has ever said he was flawless tbh
    No, it isn't disminishing his career. Is just dismitifying the myth that Maradona could do no wrong, and that he always played well in big matchtes and never failed. You know, "his will to win", "his killer instinct" and all the other bull terms sportfans tend to say without giving it much thought.

    And no, saying the truth about that Napoly team isn't disminishing his career either.

  19. #144
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Sincerely, I don't see Messi making such a difference.
    But well, everyone has his opinion.

  20. #145
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    No, it isn't disminishing his career. Is just dismitifying the myth that Maradona could do no wrong, and that he always played well in big matchtes and never failed. You know, "his will to win", "his killer instinct" and all the other bull terms sportfans tend to say without giving it much thought.

    And no, saying the truth about that Napoly team isn't disminishing his career either.
    I'm not sure I'm following you on this one... Maradona received his share of critics during his career and even after even more than Pele imo (only Pele criticism is about his 1,000 goals, the rest is not very much discussed)

    As for Napoly... Team was terrible before his arrival, first year team finished middle of the ranking, second year top 3. he won in his third year with some help for sure like Carnevale but still roster is full of italians and not comparable to for instance Juve with Platini/Laudrup or Milan. Milan that will be champ the year after with Napoli losing only 6 games with a collapse at the end (3 losses in a row). So early Napoli was not stacked by any means compared to other italian powerhouses. Maradona transformed an horrible team into a powerhouse got one le and finished 3 times top 3 with an average team.

    Then they started to get some great guys like alemao like Zola like Careca and won 90 with yes a pretty stacked team but Maradona scored a record 16 goals this season also not like he coattaled

  21. #146
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    DAF, do you honestly think if Messi gets transferred to an average La Liga team that was never champion before he would be a champion with little other roster additions?

  22. #147
    65 tons of American pride Canyonero's Avatar
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    DAF, do you honestly think if Messi gets transferred to an average La Liga team that was never champion before he would be a champion with little other roster additions?
    Different contexts. The difference between big and medium teams wasn't the same.

  23. #148
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    Different contexts. The difference between big and medium teams wasn't the same.
    Well, that's how the legend was born.

  24. #149
    65 tons of American pride Canyonero's Avatar
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    Well, that's how the legend was born.
    What legend?

  25. #150
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
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    DAF implied that the myth of Maradona was unjustified. Not trying to say he was/is a good person, but IMO he was a genius for football.

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