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  1. #26
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Marco was rated as an "awful" defender by every metric despite being a career backup who played for Thibs/Pop.
    Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.

  2. #27
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Marco was rated as an "awful" defender by every metric despite being a career backup who played for Thibs/Pop.
    The point still stand that defensive systems are only as good as the players in them and sometimes that includes hiding players like Tony does with someone to compensate for him. Lee was hidden with Bogut and Iggy covering rim and perimeter.

  3. #28
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.
    Yeah don't know what he's barking up there.

  4. #29
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.
    Dummy, Marco COULDN'T even be hidden by Pop/Thibs against backups while Lee was a starter on a top 5 defense.

  5. #30
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Dummy, Marco COULDN'T even be hidden by Pop/Thibs against backups while Lee was a starter on a top 5 defense.
    Didn't even remotely answer the question.

  6. #31
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.
    Definetly would say no but his offense for the Spurs far outweighed his drag on the defense. People attribute him as replacing Neal but he really replaced Captain and looked like a 4K TV compared to Captain by that point.

  7. #32
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Definetly would say no but his offense for the Spurs far outweighed his drag on the defense. People attribute him as replacing Neal but he really replaced Captain and looked like a 4K TV compared to Captain by that point.
    Okay. I can get behind that. Good call bud. Yeah... That makes sense.

  8. #33
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Oh god. When this got does this:



    Or this:



    Then you can compare him to the great Boris Diaw.

  9. #34
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    if it's for the minimum, why not?
    That's the single best argument in favor of Lee. That, plus the fact that he does at least have NBA experience, and some playoff experience. That's a huge factor for Pop. The trade-off is the possibility of getting a young, hungry guy with some upside, who might over-achieve and be around for several years.



    I don't think it was a misconception but people had wildly different opinions of his D. El Hausen from ESPN called him an awful defender while Zach Lowe compared him to Splitter who he regarded as an excellent defender.
    I didn't read the article where Lowe compared Lee's defense to Tiago Splitter's, but I believe it. Lowe is the darling of the media circle-jerk, because he's ambidextrous. So he doesn't get beaten up for saying stupid like that. He writes a lot of long-winded, detail-laden that looks great except for the fact that it's often meaningless - and wrong more often than right. Like when he wrote that dumb , brain-bleed article about where LeBron might go, "if" he decided to leave Miami - and none of the teams he considered was Cleveland. (Anyone with a brain knew that Cleveland was probably a 90% lock.) And I especially enjoy his scathing articles on the uniforms around the league. Good times.

    The only similarity between David Lee's defense and Tiago's is that they both take place on the same end of the floor. Highlight reel videos don't tell you much about how a guy plays day in and day out. Lee has never been a good defender, and I think that's pretty well understood around the league. He'll do find against second-team opponents - except the teams that have good backup bigs who are legitimately big. As usual, a bunch of people will fall in love with him and crow about the good plays he has (and he will have some), and ignore the fact that he's a ing matador on defense.

    Here's an article that got a lot of attention, and when the author presented his paper at Sloan. David Lee argued that it wasn't true. Some of the Warrior homers said it wasn't true, but most serious analysts agree that Lee is a defender. The analysts at Sloan that year just laughed their asses off about how bad Lee's defense is. I guess we'll see this season, and I'll admit it if he plays good defense. But don't hold your breath.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/co...e-golden-gate/

  10. #35
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    if it's for the minimum, why not?
    while Lee was a starter on a top 5 defense.

    He was a starter on a very good team that got its ass kicked out in the first round of the playoffs. And Lee's defense was one of the biggest things that got blamed for it. The next season he got kicked to the bench (okay, he started 4 games vs 67 the year before.) And THAT was the year that GS became a good defensive team and won a Championship. It's pretty well understood that they couldn't have become such a good defensive team with him starting. He may be good enough to help the Spurs off the bench, but trying to make a case that he's a good defender is just senseless.

    The next year, GS dumped him for two players they didn't really need or want. Boston waived him. Dallas didn't even try to bring him back on a min contract. Nobody... nobody along the way considered keeping him for his defense. Only Zach Lowe and people who never really watched him play could think he's going to be a defensive asset.

  11. #36
    Veteran SpursFan86's Avatar
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    The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM
    Fathead and D-Worst the 2nd and 3rd best defenders on the team

  12. #37
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    what a disgusting homer thread

    if the spurs traded for shaq... this is the thread

    The misconception about Shaq's free throws


    I've been scrutinizing his free throw metrics for years & they do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" free throw shooter, but he's actually underrated.


    ting on the nets





    In the clutch


  13. #38
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Fathead and D-Worst the 2nd and 3rd best defenders on the team
    Fat Head didn't play enough minutes to qualify & D-Worst was a solid defender against every BACKUP big not named Kanter.

  14. #39
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Then you can compare him to the great Boris Diaw.
    Ever heard of Boris 1.0, look him up.

  15. #40
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    He was a starter on a very good team that got its ass kicked out in the first round of the playoffs. And Lee's defense was one of the biggest things that got blamed for it.
    You do realize BOTH Bogut/Ezeli were out for the ENTIRE postseason in 2014 & Blake was murking everyone in that series including Draymond.



    Lee didn't get murked any worse than Boris did in 2015 & Blake was actually an MVP candidate in 2014.

  16. #41
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    what a disgusting homer thread

    if the spurs traded for shaq... this is the thread
    Shaq has made more clutch FTs than Evita/Enrique.

  17. #42
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    I'm not buying past prime D Lee as some defensive force. But it's not hard to see him being an upgrade on D West.

  18. #43
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    Shaq has made more clutch FTs than Evita/Enrique.
    Are we counting the ones that he was allowed to shoot from 13 feet?

  19. #44
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Fat Head didn't play enough minutes to qualify & D-Worst was a solid defender against every BACKUP big not named Kanter.
    Kyle played almost as many minutes total for the RS as any other bench player except Mills. His value was mostly defensively since he wasn't scoring for a good portion of the 3 first months of the season... you are just trolling at this point.
    You know what? I don't even know why you are coming this hard on David Lee. The dude was not even on your radar of interest until he was picked up by the Spurs.

  20. #45
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    I like Lee as a replacement for West...but yeh pales in comparison to the versatility of Diaw. West was hard to have on the floor because he made bad decisions on both ends of the court.

    I think Lee will be more of a crowd favorite and due to his tenacity. Lee will be more like Malik Rose.

  21. #46
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Lee is a high motor and gives you extra possesions with his nose on the ball. He is as good at PNR like Tiago, better than West. I think he's an easy 8/9 a game and more. And about 3 or 4 off rebs. The best thing is he is hungry, he will prove he still has it. I like this guy a lot. I will miss Diaw and his playmaking which creates mismatches, but Anderson is starting to bring the same skills minus the weight. I'm excited.

  22. #47
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    That's the single best argument in favor of Lee. That, plus the fact that he does at least have NBA experience, and some playoff experience. That's a huge factor for Pop. The trade-off is the possibility of getting a young, hungry guy with some upside, who might over-achieve and be around for several years.





    I didn't read the article where Lowe compared Lee's defense to Tiago Splitter's, but I believe it. Lowe is the darling of the media circle-jerk, because he's ambidextrous. So he doesn't get beaten up for saying stupid like that. He writes a lot of long-winded, detail-laden that looks great except for the fact that it's often meaningless - and wrong more often than right. Like when he wrote that dumb , brain-bleed article about where LeBron might go, "if" he decided to leave Miami - and none of the teams he considered was Cleveland. (Anyone with a brain knew that Cleveland was probably a 90% lock.) And I especially enjoy his scathing articles on the uniforms around the league. Good times.

    The only similarity between David Lee's defense and Tiago's is that they both take place on the same end of the floor. Highlight reel videos don't tell you much about how a guy plays day in and day out. Lee has never been a good defender, and I think that's pretty well understood around the league. He'll do find against second-team opponents - except the teams that have good backup bigs who are legitimately big. As usual, a bunch of people will fall in love with him and crow about the good plays he has (and he will have some), and ignore the fact that he's a ing matador on defense.

    Here's an article that got a lot of attention, and when the author presented his paper at Sloan. David Lee argued that it wasn't true. Some of the Warrior homers said it wasn't true, but most serious analysts agree that Lee is a defender. The analysts at Sloan that year just laughed their asses off about how bad Lee's defense is. I guess we'll see this season, and I'll admit it if he plays good defense. But don't hold your breath.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/co...e-golden-gate/
    I meant LMA to Tiago not David Lee.

    Lowe is great btw

  23. #48
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    I like Lee as a replacement for West...but yeh pales in comparison to the versatility of Diaw. West was hard to have on the floor because he made bad decisions on both ends of the court.

    I think Lee will be more of a crowd favorite and due to his tenacity. Lee will be more like Malik Rose.
    West could make bone headed fouls, then complain about them but he was excellent on offense. Looking back at highlights on the season, he was excellent at finding the open man and set good screens, some of his passes were Diaw level in terms of bigs finding the open man.

    Diaw's time was up and while I loved Diaw, he really wasn't unreplaceable anymore. He struggled to stay in shape and his game began to suffer and he was a stretch 4 who really didn't actually stretch the floor (he was a below average mid range shooter his last four years in S.A and a low volume 3pt threat).

    I'm fine with Lee but would have liked to see what KA could do as an actual stretch four, maybe the Spurs are trying to give him another year to fill out.

  24. #49
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    People expecting Lee to be good on defense or even better than West was last year in the regular season will be disappointed.

  25. #50
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    I'm not buying past prime D Lee as some defensive force. But it's not hard to see him being an upgrade on D West.
    people really underrating how good West was last year. There are at least three metrics (P.E.R, Win Shares per 48 and Net Rtg) that say that he was the third best rotation player on the Spurs last year.

    A vet min. playing 1400 minutes and having a Net Rtg of +16 is silly good. If Lee is anywhere near as good then its a no-brainer.

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