The misconception about David Lee's defense

[TD 21]

Diaw/West was bad because neither was a center. Lee/Dedmon will be bad because neither is a PF.

I agree that having West instead of Lee would be ideal. West/Dedmon would have been pretty good, especially with Manu to hit Dedmon on the PnR to open up even more space for West's shooting.

If the Spurs really do plan to use Anderson (and even Bertans) as a 4, though, West would just inhibit their growth. I hope that Lee ends up being the 5th big.

Lee is more of a center offensively, but he's a power forward defensively. As poor a fit as Dedmon and him would be together offensively, they'd be as perfect a fit defensively.

Dedmon would have been the most impacted had West re-signed. Instead of having a chance at being the third big, he'd have been on the fringe of the rotation.

As for TD 21, I always find your posts insightful and spot on, even though I may have a different view. I like that your posts are not agenda driven and you usually tells it like it is.

But for repeatedly allowing yourself (the same applies to anyone who does) to get trolled on the same subject.

[SAGirl]

Lee is more of a center offensively, but he's a power forward defensively. As poor a fit as Dedmon and him would be together offensively, they'd be as perfect a fit defensively.

Dedmon would have been the most impacted had West re-signed. Instead of having a chance at being the third big, he'd have been on the fringe of the rotation.





But for repeatedly allowing yourself (the same applies to anyone who does) to get trolled on the same subject.

Yea, I do allow myself to get trolled lol

[Seventyniner]

Lee is more of a center offensively, but he's a power forward defensively. As poor a fit as Dedmon and him would be together offensively, they'd be as perfect a fit defensively.

I think I'd go the other way here, that Dedmon would have an easier time keeping up with PFs on defense. However I would need to watch both Dedmon and Lee more to see which of them has better lateral quickness, I've just been assuming that it's Dedmon (he is definitely more athletic and younger).

But I thought the point of this thread was to talk about Lee's defense. I don't think it's bottom-of-the-barrel, but he could very well be the only net minus on defense in the big man rotation. That, coupled with his lack of range on offense, could very well relegate him to being the 5th big and regular season minutes sponge.

[cutewizard]

Rebounding === desire..................

[SAGirl]

Rebounding === desire..................

I have heard he really doesn't contest shots and is already getting in position for the rebound... something that was at times said of K.Love. There are definite rebound chasers that don't help defensively, don't contest shots and just get in position for the miss (if there is a miss).

[TD 21]

I think I'd go the other way here, that Dedmon would have an easier time keeping up with PFs on defense. However I would need to watch both Dedmon and Lee more to see which of them has better lateral quickness, I've just been assuming that it's Dedmon (he is definitely more athletic and younger).

But I thought the point of this thread was to talk about Lee's defense. I don't think it's bottom-of-the-barrel, but he could very well be the only net minus on defense in the big man rotation. That, coupled with his lack of range on offense, could very well relegate him to being the 5th big and regular season minutes sponge.

That would leave Lee to protect the rim though. They might consider that against Curry and Lillard, but with how much small ball those teams play, I can't imagine both Lee and Dedmon being in the rotation against them.

Unfortunately, because Lee is a more proven player, he'll probably have a slight leg up on Dedmon going in.

[Kawhitstorm]

[Chinook]

I'm hoping that we get to a point where someone can bump the Pau thread.


For good reasons of course.

[spursistan]

Bump.

dem blocks doe ..OP looking good thus far..

[timtonymanu]

Been really pleased with Lee. I just hope he doesn't crumble like West did after he himself looked good for the Spurs last season

[bklynspursfan]

He's been everything lots of people thought he wouldn't be. It's great to see. He came in pretty confident and it continues to show.

[Chinook]

Looks great playing center. Pretty sure some people are too quick to jump the gun.

[bklynspursfan]

Looks great playing center. Pretty sure some people are too quick to jump the gun.

I think the guy came in and shocked many people with his play. It just goes to show like you said, people are quick to jump the gun with predictions and what not.

the whole 4/5 thing doesn't seem to matter either, I mean he's played with Pau, LMA, & Dedmon and has seemed to have a positive impact regardless. He's like the big man version of Patty Mills with the energy he brings

[Chinook]

I think the guy came in and shocked many people with his play. It just goes to show like you said, people are quick to jump the gun with predictions and what not.

the whole 4/5 thing doesn't seem to matter either, I mean he's played with Pau, LMA, & Dedmon and has seemed to have a positive impact regardless. He's like the big man version of Patty Mills with the energy he brings

I'm really liking him so far. I hope he stays for a reasonable deal if he can keep this up. He's even shooting better from outside.

And jumping the gun is fine. Making threads disparaging other people's takes after like two games is what strikes me as silly. This is a long season, and more twists and turns are on the horizon.

[dabom]

Hopefully he proves to be a good addition, but I am wary of him. His videos in GSW he was wide open with absolutely no one guarding him as caught the ball and drove relatively easily. The result of the gravity in GSW is not easily replicated. In Dallas he was playing next to Dirk Nowitzky and the floor was wide open for him. They were playing him as the undersized center in a 4 out style.

In Boston without other floor stretchers he didn't do so well and despite his stats shooting, he hasn't been a net positive the past couple of seasons. It could be his injuries, but it also could be other issues. So no, not that excited about him, but he is a Spur now so there is no point in getting up a case against him.

Hopefully he has a good season and works out for the team.


Contrary to you though, I don't think Kyle will be restricted to third string, but he's likely to continue to play both forward spots. Hopefully his improved shooting helps out no matter where he's played.

Are you always wrong?

[sasaint]

I'm really liking him so far. I hope he stays for a reasonable deal if he can keep this up. He's even shooting better from outside.

And jumping the gun is fine. Making threads disparaging other people's takes after like two games is what strikes me as silly. This is a long season, and more twists and turns are on the horizon.

To say that I am pleasantly surprised by Lee's play would be a gross understatement. I really liked him in his days as a Knick. But he has been pretty "meh" since then. So far this season his hustle and athleticism have far exceeded what I thought he had left in the tank.

[spursistan]

Effort and dedication are half of the defensive battle; and I think Lee has really put it in his short stint with us despite his inherent flaws on that end..Dude's sneaky anticipation has him flying for the boards compared to lazy ground-boundedness of the Turd Towers last season...

Let's hope he keeps it up, old veterans tend to fizzle as the season wears on..

[bklynspursfan]

I'm really liking him so far. I hope he stays for a reasonable deal if he can keep this up. He's even shooting better from outside.

And jumping the gun is fine. Making threads disparaging other people's takes after like two games is what strikes me as silly. This is a long season, and more twists and turns are on the horizon.

Agreed..Just childish stuff.

I was also glad to see him knocking down that mid-range shot. It's something he was always capable of. And we all know how Chip has helped guys in the past. What is great about him, is he always seems to bring it energy and hustle wise. He will have off games like everyone, but it's good to have a guy his size be a hustle player and someone who is OK doing lots of dirty work.

Not to mention his ball handling/play making ability as well.

[Texas_Ranger]

i am impressed with him so far... Was't the biggest fan of him when the Spurs signed him, but he is playing really well. just keep it up Lee.

[GSH]

Agreed..Just childish stuff.

I was also glad to see him knocking down that mid-range shot. It's something he was always capable of. And we all know how Chip has helped guys in the past. What is great about him, is he always seems to bring it energy and hustle wise. He will have off games like everyone, but it's good to have a guy his size be a hustle player and someone who is OK doing lots of dirty work.

Not to mention his ball handling/play making ability as well.

I am really pleased with the way Lee is playing. As long as Pop doesn't resort to using him as a center, the way he did with West, I think he is a great addition to the team.

But about that mid-range shot? I know he's made some. But you understand that for most of his career he's sub-.400 for everything over 3 feet? Would it surprise you that he's shooting .353 this year on shots from 3-10 feet? It's a small sample, but that works both ways. Making a few from mid-range doesn't mean that he's suddenly going to be knocking those down at a high rate. I hope he does, but he has a whole career that says otherwise. Maybe Chip can help him improve, but it's way too soon to declare it fixed. And since we're jumping on people in this thread for making up their minds too quickly, I'd slow down on that one.

But that being said, I've said from the beginning that he's a finishing sonofa around the rim. He's actually missed some of those bunnies that I normally expect him to make, but that doesn't change anything. He has always been a great finisher. He's also got really good handles for a big man, and I don't mind seeing him bring the ball up the floor at all - which is a real luxury - and he runs the floor well. Great fit for a bench that plays at a faster pace than the starting unit.

[bklynspursfan]

I am really pleased with the way Lee is playing. As long as Pop doesn't resort to using him as a center, the way he did with West, I think he is a great addition to the team.

But about that mid-range shot? I know he's made some. But you understand that for most of his career he's sub-.400 for everything over 3 feet? Would it surprise you that he's shooting .353 this year on shots from 3-10 feet? It's a small sample, but that works both ways. Making a few from mid-range doesn't mean that he's suddenly going to be knocking those down at a high rate. I hope he does, but he has a whole career that says otherwise. Maybe Chip can help him improve, but it's way too soon to declare it fixed. And since we're jumping on people in this thread for making up their minds too quickly, I'd slow down on that one.

But that being said, I've said from the beginning that he's a finishing sonofa around the rim. He's actually missed some of those bunnies that I normally expect him to make, but that doesn't change anything. He has always been a great finisher. He's also got really good handles for a big man, and I don't mind seeing him bring the ball up the floor at all - which is a real luxury - and he runs the floor well. Great fit for a bench that plays at a faster pace than the starting unit.

Huh? All I said was he has always been capable, and mentioned Chip has helped guys before. (Insinuating he can further help Lee improve) I never said it was fixed or he was great at it. I realize the %, and he's not LMA or Dirk out there, but he is capable and not like Splitter out there. In a hunch, he will take the shot. That's a good thing.

I agree about him finishing around the basket. He finishes strong too which is great. Not only with dunks, but he's just aggressive when he's around the rim

[GSH]

BTW - Lee is just under 6'8". People can say he looks good playing the C all they want to, as long as he's playing against a small lineup, or against another center who is under-sized, or just not very good. If he had been in the game against last year's OKC team, for instance, with those monsters they had, he would have struggled just like West did.

Lots of under-sized players get put at the 5 when both teams are playing small ball. That doesn't make them centers. Lee is going to be good for small ball, and I think he'll be a great complement to Dedmon.

[GSH]

Huh? All I said was he has always been capable, and mentioned Chip has helped guys before. (Insinuating he can further help Lee improve) I never said it was fixed or he was great at it. I realize the %, and he's not LMA or Dirk out there, but he is capable and not like Splitter out there. In a hunch, he will take the shot. That's a good thing.

I agree about him finishing around the basket. He finishes strong too which is great. Not only with dunks, but he's just aggressive when he's around the rim

Sorry. I promise I wasn't trying to jump on you. I've just watched Lee play quite a bit over the years, and he's been consistently not-great from anything outside about 6 feet.

The comment about not judging too quickly was aimed at all the people who've decided that Lee is something different than he's ever been, based on a few games here. They're bashing people for making up their minds too quickly, based on a few games. Sort of ironic.

All I know is that over a fairly long career, they haven't gone in very consistently - for whatever reason. A lot of the standard shot-percentage tables show shots from 0-3 feet, and from 3-10 feet. Lee's FG% from 0-3 has been exceptional. From 3-10, not so much. But I've watch him enough to be pretty confident saying that he's still pretty good out to about 6 feet. Which means he's always been pretty ty from 6-10 feet. But I agree - I would rather have a guy who will take the shot with confidence in a pinch. Better that than a bad pass and not getting any shot up that possession.

[DPG21920]

Sorry. I promise I wasn't trying to jump on you. I've just watched Lee play quite a bit over the years, and he's been consistently not-great from anything outside about 6 feet.

The comment about not judging too quickly was aimed at all the people who've decided that Lee is something different than he's ever been, based on a few games here. They're bashing people for making up their minds too quickly, based on a few games. Sort of ironic.

All I know is that over a fairly long career, they haven't gone in very consistently - for whatever reason. A lot of the standard shot-percentage tables show shots from 0-3 feet, and from 3-10 feet. Lee's FG% from 0-3 has been exceptional. From 3-10, not so much. But I've watch him enough to be pretty confident saying that he's still pretty good out to about 6 feet. Which means he's always been pretty ty from 6-10 feet. But I agree - I would rather have a guy who will take the shot with confidence in a pinch. Better that than a bad pass and not getting any shot up that possession.

Lee's value from 10+feet has never been his shooting (although he's willing) but his ability to actually dribble a basketball and make good passes.

It's something that he used to do regularly and with success.

[TD 21]

Claiming people are "jumping the gun", while doing just that (small sample size) and neglecting to mention that the defense and rebounding have fallen off significantly in that stretch.

BTW - Lee is just under 6'8".

They don't play barefoot. Lee plays at roughly 6'8.75'', hence the 6'9'' listing.