I've been scrutinizing his defensive metrics & they just do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" defender.
The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM:
Lee has been on a playoff team since 2012-13 & he hasn't had a negative DBPM for a single season.BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.
BPM does not take into account playing time – it is purely a rate stat.
'12-'13: +1.5 (Better than Barnes)
-Injured in the playoffs
'13-'14: +0.8 (Basically same as Barnes)
-Playoffs: +2.7 (Better than Barnes)
'14-'15: +2.0 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +0.5 (Not enough sample size)
'15-'16: +1.7 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +1.9 (Not enough sample size)
He was basically rated no worse than his fellow forward Barnes during his GSW tenure (Speight was dead last:)
If you want to use on/off metric then he was a positive when he played significant minutes b/w 2012-2014 on a playoff team including +11 & +12 in the '13-'14 regular/postseason respectively: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...2/on-off/2014/
He was also a positive in his limited role during the 2015 postseason on a championship squad: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...off-post::none
Something I noticed was that he's actually a better post defender than Diaw & moves his feet better than West but he just plain sucks at protecting the rim which is why it's a terrible idea to play him at center. I would compare him to a stronger but step-slower version of Diaw.
Look at him shutting down Softridge:
Shutting down Bosh & abusing him on the other end:
He's actually ready to play when called upon unlike Diaw 1.0:
Hopefully, Pop uses the big man rotation just like when Tiago/Tim were starting together & Diaw/Baynes were coming off the bench where he would have Tiago sub out early so he could anchor the second unit.
-Lee: Diaw
-Dedmon: Baynes
LMA has shown he's capable of defending on the perimeter better than Pau & Pau is a better rim protector so: Lee/Pau & Dedmon/LMA.
Kyle is the elephant in the room but it seems to me like he's best suited for a Boban role where he could dominate 3rd stringers.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 08-03-2016 at 09:06 PM.
Lee likely has enough foot speed to be better than DWest defending the perimeter. Give though his height, he probably is as good as Diaw defending the paint.
Spurs may have lucked out again and found a much cheaper player than Diaw that can pass in the post.
West had long ass arms which allowed him to get steals & deflection, he also had better defensive awareness.
West also can't get rebounds and can't defend the pick and roll. I could say more but the dude was a dud. I'm sure Lee is already better defensively.
I've been scrutinizing his defensive metrics & they just do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" defender.
The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM:
bpm....
Lee has been on a playoff team since 2012-13 & he hasn't had a negative DBPM for a single season.
'12-'13: +1.5 (Better than Barnes)
-Injured in the playoffs
'13-'14: +0.8 (Basically same as Barnes)
-Playoffs: +2.7 (Better than Barnes)
'14-'15: +2.0 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +0.5 (Not enough sample size)
'15-'16: +1.7 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +1.9 (Not enough sample size)
He was basically rated no worse than his fellow forward Barnes during his GSW tenure (Speight was dead last:
If you want to use on/off metric then he was a positive when he played significant minutes b/w 2012-2014 on a playoff team including +11 & +12 in the '13-'14 regular/postseason respectively: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...2/on-off/2014/
He was also a positive in his limited role during the 2015 postseason on a championship squad: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...off-post::none
Something I noticed was that he's actually a better post defender than Diaw & moves his feet better than West but he just plain sucks at protecting the rim which is why it's a terrible idea to play him at center. I would compare him to a stronger but step-slower version of Diaw.
Look at him shutting down Softridge:
Shutting down Bosh & abusing him on the other end:
He's actually ready to play when called upon unlike Diaw 1.0:
Hopefully, Pop uses the big man rotation just like when Tiago/Tim were starting together & Diaw/Baynes were coming off the bench where he would have Tiago sub out early so he could anchor the second unit.
-Lee: Diaw
-Dedmon: Baynes
LMA has shown he's capable of defending on the perimeter better than Pau & Pau is a better rim protector so: Lee/Pau & Dedmon/LMA.
Kyle is the elephant in the room but it seems to me like he's best suited for a Boban role where he could dominate 3rd stringers.
This is a very dynamic big man rotation. With some luck as far as health, it could be very effective. I think Lee brings high energy in a way that Dejuan Blair did, but, with some actual basketball skills like passing and shooting.
The 2nd unit already is looking intriguing on paper. Mills/Ginobili/Anderson/Lee/&Dedmon or Bertans could be fun to watch.
Hopefully he proves to be a good addition, but I am wary of him. His videos in GSW he was wide open with absolutely no one guarding him as caught the ball and drove relatively easily. The result of the gravity in GSW is not easily replicated. In Dallas he was playing next to Dirk Nowitzky and the floor was wide open for him. They were playing him as the undersized center in a 4 out style.
In Boston without other floor stretchers he didn't do so well and despite his stats shooting, he hasn't been a net positive the past couple of seasons. It could be his injuries, but it also could be other issues. So no, not that excited about him, but he is a Spur now so there is no point in getting up a case against him.
Lee is a versatile big although he doesn't have range he can either postup or play PnR so he's a hybrid of Boris/Tiago. In New York he was more of a postup player but w/ the Duds he was running PnRs w/ Curry.
In Boston, they were trying to run PnRs with ty shooters on the floor which was what caused the hiccup.
Hopefully he has a good season and works out for the team.
Contrary to you though, I don't think Kyle will be restricted to third string, but he's likely to continue to play both forward spots. Hopefully his improved shooting helps out no matter where he's played.
if it's for the minimum, why not?
The Savior
Fat Head can keep the opposition at bay & pad his stats while the rotation players rest. It's a win-win for both parties as we saw w/ Boban.
If Speight can be a rotation player on a 73 win team then Lee should be serviceable.
Well if you want him benched I think you will be disappointed, unless you want him to pad stats for a possible trade but that won't raise his value unless he's a rotation player. I think you are trolling.Fat Head can keep the opposition at bay & pad his stats while the rotation players rest. It's a win-win for both parties as we saw w/ Boban.
Last edited by SAGirl; 08-04-2016 at 12:58 AM.
Just thinking offensively, the guy did average 8.5ppg and 7.0rpg with Dallas in 25 games playing 17 minutes a night, while shooting 63.6%. He's going to be an excellent teammate, rebounder, and scorer in the paint for the bench team. He's a smooth finisher and will finish many pick and rolls with a smart inside score or making the right pass.
As many have said, defensively he can move his feet well and may be a great fit playing with Pau.
Also, 3 years younger than West. A welcome addition to the Spurs family as we are short on big men.
Funny how all these NBA players have misconceptions about their games until they join the Spurs. Then it becomes crystal clear it was all just a misconception.. move along.
This is the best article I have read to succinctly explain Lee:
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/...mize-david-lee
He takes maneuvering to work around his deficiencies but is workable with and around certain guys.
Defense has always been about team effort and that's something that depends more about the particular team culture and not the individual player. Warriors were an elite great defensive team under Marc Jackson, Lee can't be that bad. He had an off year last season, wouldn't you? He lost his role with the team that just won a ring and was traded as a result of it. It took him forever to get in b-ball shape and eventually found some success the Dallas. I fully expect him to have a much better season with the Spurs.
he's about as bad as they come. Anyone thinking he will be anything short of awful, has to be laughed at.
You mean like how there was a misconception about LMA being an "awful" defender who couldn't hold ters' jock straps?
You mean like how there was a misconception about LMA being an "awful" defender who couldn't hold ters' jock straps?
Defense is a team concept but the same system doesn't work the same with all the same guys. Change Danny for Marco and see how your system doesn't work the same.
I don't think it was a misconception but people had wildly different opinions of his D. El Hausen from ESPN called him an awful defender while Zach Lowe compared him to Splitter who he regarded as an excellent defender.You mean like how there was a misconception about LMA being an "awful" defender who couldn't hold ters' jock straps?
LMA's rim protection and post stats both suggested that he was a good defender and the D Rtg of the last Portland team he was on suggested that he could be have a big role on a very good defensive team. Swapping out Lopez for Duncan, and Mathews and Batum for Wingstop (all three of which are significantly better than his old teammates made LMA a much more effective defender for the Spurs. He is a good defender but it was overlooked because of his offensive game. I don't think that he could necessarily anchor a defense but with a solid C beside him he can be well above average on that end.
Love was the one that got the championship clinching defensive stop on Curry & folks are claiming Lee is unplayable against backups.
Marco was rated as an "awful" defender by every metric despite being a career backup who played for Thibs/Pop.
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