Spurs Still Legit Championship Contenders?

[Solid D]

Spurs are probably still legit contenders but until the new group forms some chemistry in working together, there is no way to know for sure until Spring.

[TD 21]

They would have been a le contender last year with a healthy Duncan. Now they're not, the defense is going to be much worse with Gasol taking his place and the bench is the weakest it has been since the RMJ/Finley/Bogans era.

That's the biggest myth about last season. Duncan received most of the attention/criticism, but too many key players had declined significantly and the team had too many ill-fitting parts. By season's end, they had become, in many ways, a conventional team. With inferior star power to the other elites, that was never going to cut it.

Yeah. It's going to be a weird season because for the rest of the season we're going to look at GSW and Judge our ability to contend based on their level play.

But if we pause for a second, We're clearly still the third best team in the league and possibly second.

When you're at a level where people expect you to qualify to the western confrence, then yiu are a contender. We really dobt know how far off the warriors are from San Antonio..

Unless you can tell me with absoulte certainty that GSW is winning the west, the second best team in the confrence is going to always be by default a contender.

Ask yourself, how many teams in the league are far better than the spurs? 1..you can make an argument for the cavs as the second best team, but they're not far off...

It's one astronomical series against the warriors..thats it. Its not like the spurs have to go through 6 gruelling teams.

Being the 2nd best team in the league is plausible, but the Spurs aren't clearly better than the Clippers (just like I said all along, they were never clearly better than the Thunder last season, no matter the standings/metrics) and they match up too poorly with 1 for it to matter.

- No superstar or even star creator
- A lack of volume three-point shooting/explosive offense
- Gasol is as ill-suited to defend against them as Duncan was
- No 2nd big or 5th player (Leonard, Aldridge, Green, Ginobili) suited to playing significant minutes against them
- Clark, a fringe rotation player, is the only safe hiding place for Parker/Mills, who are both too important to not play significant minutes
- Ginobili can't handle the workload or play with the consistency they'd need in a series against them

The Clippers at least have a superstar creator, a near or borderline superstar big and another star big, that both have the chops to defend against their preferred lineup.

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.

I was expecting something along the lines of . . .

Spurs are probably still legit contenders but until the new group forms some chemistry in working together, there is no way to know for sure until Spring.

A lot of cliche, vanilla takes from the usual suspects. It's a win-win situation. If by some miracle they win, you can pretend to have believed all along and claim that those that didn't aren't "real fans". If they lose, you can claim to have stood by "your" team all along and that those who predicted it didn't.

[ffadicted]

They will be better than last year tbh

[Solid D]

A lot of cliche, vanilla takes from the usual suspects. It's a win-win situation. If by some miracle they win, you can pretend to have believed all along and claim that those that didn't aren't "real fans". If they lose, you can claim to have stood by "your" team all along and that those who predicted it didn't.

Yeah, it is sort of cliché - although I didn't realize I was a suspect. I voted "Yes," though, in your very important poll. It certainly won't be a miracle if the Spurs win.

I'm not really concerned about protecting my claims. I've had my misses on guesses such as these and will admit them. In late 2014, you still thought the Spurs were a top 2 team but would need home court advantage. As I recall, you felt the Spurs could win 2 on the road in a playoff series against anyone except OKC but could not win 4 on the road...which was a fairly reasonable take at the time. But you still thought the Spurs were "good enough" at that time to win - with conditions.

[Solid D]

Here is a quote from a thread in March 2015 en led: Can 2014 Spurs beat the 2015 warriors?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...hlight=contend

They're obviously better than the '11 Spurs, but that team was ridiculous record-wise through about three quarters of the season, the '12 Spurs ripped off one of the greatest stretches in league history and the '14 Spurs, as you've detailed, were the great playoff team of all time. Yet not once in that time (nor '13 and it's not as if that Spurs team was too shabby themselves), were they thought to be favorites, let alone overwhelming ones.

Their numbers, though impressive, are due in part to a combination of health and their best players being unable to play virtually unlimited minutes when necessary, two things those Spurs teams have never had in that time. They also have one series win under their belt, their clear cut best player is a PG and they have a rookie coach. There's no historical precedent (that I'm aware of) for this being a championship formula, yet everyone is ready to crown them.

Largely due to a combination of injuries, fatigue and sheer boredom, the Spurs haven't looked like themselves this season, yet instead of being given a well earned mulligan (funny, the Thunder have been) for those things, they've been reduced to being put in the same class as pretenders. Throw out the '12 Mavericks, who had a completely different team and they're by far the most disrespected defending champions in recent memory.

[baseline bum]

him if goes to Golden State tbh

[baseline bum]

That's the biggest myth about last season. Duncan received most of the attention/criticism, but too many key players had declined significantly and the team had too many ill-fitting parts. By season's end, they had become, in many ways, a conventional team. With inferior star power to the other elites, that was never going to cut it.

What a load of crap, Duncan was easily 1st Team All NBA Defense before his knee got hurt and the team was having its best defensive season since like 2004.

[TheDoctor]

All the more reason to get a this season.

LMAO

[ElNono]

I was expecting something along the lines of . . .

The reality is that in other seasons, this team was built in a way where it was more of a team effort than individuals. You needed to have a throwback season from one or more of Tim/Manu/Tony and then also see if the bench would gel together. With that kind of team, you could only really tell where it was going by mid-season or so.

But since at least last season (especially after TD got hurt), and especially now that TD is gone, this is strictly a top-heavy team. We're going to go as far as the top individuals take us. And it's undeniable there's a lot to prove there. Some will say that Gasol might do a better job than TD at this stage, especially hurt TD, but it's a completely different scenario. Tim was a guy that played with this core forever. I love the Pau signing, but there's going to be a learning curve, and chemistry stuff to work on, and another big question mark there.

IMO, the bench is probably the biggest question mark. They could be pretty good or atrocious. That's why it's hard to realistically count on them being above average at this point.

[wildbill2u]

I believe because I am a fan. I have hopes because I am an optimist and am excited about the new faces. I have doubts because I am a realist and we have too many new pieces and some older pieces that could break at any time. I am excited because the new season is almost here and look at the fun we will have discussing all our hopes, fears, doubts and excitement. I can't wait.

[gambit1990]

So easy, even Chinook got this.

don't give him too much credit, even a broken clock is right twice a day

[gambit1990]

i don't see the cavs winning it. unless lebron has another absolutely stellar finals again. he didn't have kawhi guarding him though.

i don't see kerr losing to them again.

spurs are contenders.

[SAGirl]

The reality is that in other seasons, this team was built in a way where it was more of a team effort than individuals. You needed to have a throwback season from one or more of Tim/Manu/Tony and then also see if the bench would gel together. With that kind of team, you could only really tell where it was going by mid-season or so.

But since at least last season (especially after TD got hurt), and especially now that TD is gone, this is strictly a top-heavy team. We're going to go as far as the top individuals take us. And it's undeniable there's a lot to prove there. Some will say that Gasol might do a better job than TD at this stage, especially hurt TD, but it's a completely different scenario. Tim was a guy that played with this core forever. I love the Pau signing, but there's going to be a learning curve, and chemistry stuff to work on, and another big question mark there.

IMO, the bench is probably the biggest question mark. They could be pretty good or atrocious. That's why it's hard to realistically count on them being above average at this point.

The thing with Pau too is that he's similar to Tim but not the same where it matters. Tim in his last stages was a blue collar/screener/passer. He only finished plays in PnR for the most part and saved his juice for the playoffs the past couple of seasons. You knew--I knew he had another gear. Pau it's unknown how he will contribute on the defensive end, so it's not the same as Tim who was ever so consistent defensively. The team will miss him. LMA May need to hit another gear if he can. However, when it comes to guys and their defense that's one thing for sure that J can say: "in Pop I trust".

Frankly no one will say it but the team needs not one but about three of the youngest players to step up and not in a stand in the corner hit a 3 when you get the ball way. They are needed to be aggressive and engineer their own stuff too. They are young but I believe in these dudes bc I am a fan. My schtick is not "I told you all so... " but I would love for you all to tell me: yea SaGirl you told us all so, only bc that means the team scaled a heck of a mountain and at least some youngsters busted into the scene as a factor. It would be nice if that happens bc it's always easier to sign your own guys than try to pry a player from somewhere else. I do believe Kyle will be hitting the 3 and looking to score and if there's one thing J.Simms can do is get to the cup or get fouled.

Now the other youngsters are rookies, so I don't include them in my hopes. Maybe Bertans has Marci Belinelli sized balls and can get in a game for a few minutes and hut a couple of shots, well see with him. In reality they are all unknown but that's how the Blazers entered last season with a bunch of unknowns and a whole lot of their guys got better (then cost a hefty sum to keep but that's the business). That's the best possible outcome not just for us fans, but for the team a d the current younger core bc these guys are young and can help the team for several years.

I don't expect guys that don't like these youngster to have much faith. Ultimately there's no vanilla take here or cliche. I really just hope like a team fan that these,guys grow up and improve as players, same as every fan for every other team is wondering whether youngster X or Y is going to take his game to the next level.

Edit: some things here were in reply to TD21, just didn't have the ease to quote different ppl from my tablet. Sorry Nono, to quote you when some things here were not direct reply. Things like cliches and vanilla takes were in response to TD21. I don't think it's cliche to hope some of these guys improve its actually unnatural IMO for a fan not to hope some guys who are still very young grow up as players.

[GSH]

They would have been a le contender last year with a healthy Duncan. Now they're not, the defense is going to be much worse with Gasol taking his place and the bench is the weakest it has been since the RMJ/Finley/Bogans era.

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.

Two words: Davis ng Bertans

[SAGirl]

What a load of crap, Duncan was easily 1st Team All NBA Defense before his knee got hurt and the team was having its best defensive season since like 2004.

Not only that, there's just no way they lose to OKC with the TD that showed up for the Clippers series 2015. When you lose that TD and instead are stuck with D west from 2016 that's what happens.

[024]

Spurs are still a top 5 team. But the difference between the top team and the rest is huge. And there is another big gap between the second best team and the tier that the Spurs is on.

[dabom]

17 gots on this thread so far. IDGAF.

[SAGirl]

Two words: Davis ng Bertans

I don't know why TD 21 keeps rehashing 3 pt shooting when the team added a sniper that really that's all he does:Bertans. Manu was really a sniper/cutter last part of the season. Mills is a sniper that just needs a screen to fire and I wouldn't expect Danny to stay at 33%. Kyle shot 43% from 3 over the summer in about 4 attempts per game. Short sample yes, but he hit over 50% from those same spots in college. Kawhi's had a career year last season. Frankly of the perimeter players only J.Simms and Tony don't shoot the 3 and they can make them but don't take a lot. Their thing should be to get to the basket when they are in the game anyways. Heck even Pay is hitting the friking 3. Unless TD 21 expect a down years from several ppl if looks like they will hit the 3 nor frequently. The game is nog just 3 pt shooting though so there's that. My only pessimism is Tony (and Manu to a lesser degree, just bc he'll be nearly 40 and as TD showed us, this late in their careers a year's difference is a lot.)

[ElNono]

Two words: Davis ng Bertans

that's three words, tbh

[Chinook]

The Spurs a better than Cleveland. That's enough. All this other is just overthinking things. They have their holes, but they still have a high ceiling. Parker and Manu just have to hit it.

[Solid D]

As for me, I am not into a Cartesian theatrics bathed in skepticism and doubt regarding the Spurs' future. Contenders until otherwise proven, for me.

[benefactor]

I voted "Yes," though, in your very important poll.

[GSH]

that's three words, tbh

LOL... yeah, that was sort of the point. I guess I should have put it in blue? I was joking about Bertans making up for the loss of a healthy Tim Duncan.

Maybe I should have said "Ryan ing Richards"?

[GSH]

Like Chinook said, Tony and Manu just have to hit it. And Pau. And Danny needs to get his 3P shot going again. And Kyle needs to step up to the next level. Dedmon is still sort of an unknown, but he definitely needs to live up to everyone's hopes. And Patty needs to be at his best.

Any help from Bertans will just be a bonus.

[ElNono]

LOL... yeah, that was sort of the point. I guess I should have put it in blue? I was joking about Bertans making up for the loss of a healthy Tim Duncan.

Maybe I should have said "Ryan ing Richards"?

Oh, that WAS the joke... nevermind...