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  1. #76
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Didn't I say that?

    genetics of the sexual will not be passed along if the sexual maintains a sexual life.
    False.

    Fails for social species.

    Consider:
    Two siblings. One sexual, one not.

    The hetero sibling has a child, and, by extension an aunt or uncle, with no offspring to care for. If something happens to the hetero parent, the sexual sibling can step in and provide resources for the offspring that vastly increase its survival chances.

    One can assume that sexuality, likely a host of gene effects, some more strongly expressed than others, is carried by the offspring.

  2. #77
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Bear in mind that you need to conceptualize people as what they are for reproductive purposes: a collection of genes.

    Allele frequency between generations varies because a set of genes is either advantageous or disadvantageous on a NET basis.

    It is entirely possible for a gene to have positive and negative affects on an organisms ability to reproduce. A good example is a pea tail.

    Alleles also can have beneficial effects when weakly expressed (increasing their frequency), and negative effects when strongly expressed (decreasing frequency).

    There are also entire species where the existence of non-reproducing adults determines the viability of offspring, such as wolf packs. Social species that live in groups allow for this, and humans are just such a social group.
    Fine, but the sexual doesn't fit into those hypothetical categories. sexual, by definition, does not reproduce through normal sexual interaction since like genders cannot produce offspring. This isn't a social limitation, but a biological one.

  3. #78
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Fine, but the sexual doesn't fit into those hypothetical categories. sexual, by definition, does not reproduce through normal sexual interaction since like genders cannot produce offspring. This isn't a social limitation, but a biological one.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article... sexuality/

    The evidence is there through a search. There are, unsurprisingly, actual studies on it.

    Again, you seem to be confusing entire organisms with the individual alleles and gametes.

    http://phys.org/news/2015-01-evoluti...r-beetles.html

    Same sex behavior happens quite a bit in many species, including other primate species. This strongly implies that there are things working that means sexuality is not as clearly negative to reproduction as you seem to believe.

  4. #79
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Conflating political spectrum with morality assumes there are absolute moral poles. I dont buy it.

  5. #80
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You are so bad at critical thinking you don't even know how/why this drips with irony, do you?
    Isn't balance the middle of a scale? All five indicators were in the middle for the right, and highly skewed for the left.

  6. #81
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Lot of people here deeply invested in proving sexuality is unnatural and wrong.

    It's odd to me that such dire emphasis is laid on who other people and how. The topic clearly stirs passion.

  7. #82
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    https://www.newscientist.com/article... sexuality/

    The evidence is there through a search. There are, unsurprisingly, actual studies on it.

    Again, you seem to be confusing entire organisms with the individual alleles and gametes.

    http://phys.org/news/2015-01-evoluti...r-beetles.html

    Same sex behavior happens quite a bit in many species, including other primate species. This strongly implies that there are things working that means sexuality is not as clearly negative to reproduction as you seem to believe.
    Look at what you're implying: that same sex partners can produce offspring. If there was a shipwrecked on an island and there were only men on the ship and no one ever rescued them nor discovered the island and 140 years later someone visited that island, would you expect they might find human life?

    If not, why?

    If so, how?

  8. #83
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    You seem to have keen psychological insight into other posters based on fleeting interactions online. How did you acquire it?

  9. #84
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Look at what you're implying: that same sex partners can produce offspring. If there was a shipwrecked on an island and there were only men on the ship and no one ever rescued them nor discovered the island and 140 years later someone visited that island, would you expect they might find human life?

    If not, why?

    If so, how?
    If you got out of that "same sex partners can produce offspring". My apologies for not communicating effectively.

    My point was:

    same sex behavior exists, not just in humans but in other species. As far as we can tell, sexuality has been around a long time.

    Since natural selection is rather ruthless at weeding out genes that are clearly deleterious, this implies that the genes/gene groups that govern sexuality is/are not solely deleterious.

  10. #85
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Fine, but the sexual doesn't fit into those hypothetical categories. sexual, by definition, does not reproduce through normal sexual interaction since like genders cannot produce offspring. This isn't a social limitation, but a biological one.
    Wolves live in matrilineal packs.

    Often non-alpha females do not reproduce in a given year.

    Yet the presence of these non-reproducing females increases the odds of the year's cubs surviving, because wolves hunt in packs, i.e. are social. In this way the collective genes of the group are passed on.

    Humans are the same.

    In social, cooperative species, you cannot isolate consideration of any given set of alleles to individual organisms.

  11. #86
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    XY and XX

    there's no ing Z and ... XXY, XYY etc happen such a very small percentage of the time...it's a statistical anomaly, thus making it abnormal. Hermaphroditic is just as "normal" as Down syndrome or Edward's ("The Hills Have Eyes" syndrome). They're all based on a genetic DEFECT, or mistake, in the chromosomes during meiosis or fertilization cross-over (karyotyping). Defectiveness is ABNORMAL.
    very interesting thread on just this topic:


  12. #87
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  13. #88
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    very interesting thread on just this topic:

    tweet not showing up.

    but yes, both sex, sexual iden y, and sexual preference are all on spectrums, and not really binary

  14. #89
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Even then, immorality wouldn't be an objective truth.

    In looking through my diverse Facebook news feed, I've become fascinated by the narrative that liberals are immoral, unintelligent, unpatriotic, Godless heathens who reject objective truths and that conservatives are wholly moral, super-intelligent, thoroughly patriotic, angels who are grounded solely in objective truths.

    My favorite is when a "friend" offers that sort of characterization and then complains that liberals won't listen to conservatives.
    If you take the "patriotic" adjective out of your conservative "friend's" description of liberal, it would describe (in the age of Trump) my liberal's views of conservatives (especially Trump voters). Of course most of my friends are academics (live in a college town, run in college circles), so from their standpoint most everyone is unintelligent.

    It is, however, the belief that those that disagree are not only wrong, but stupid and immoral that has created such a divide and inability to have any type of Socratic dialogue. Not very effective for the country, but very effective at giving 2-year (sic) term congressmen lifetime jobs while "living" in gerrymandered districts.

  15. #90
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    It is, however, the belief that those that disagree are not only wrong, but stupid and immoral that has created such a divide and inability to have any type of Socratic dialogue.
    That's a certain few people in this form to a T. They know who they are.

  16. #91
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    When do you have to become responsible for your own thinking?

    ever notice that it’s party of trumpers that always cry about being divide when they suck at the of trump who started as a birther, and has continually and factually been proven to be racist and sexist in his life.

    Yoi support a party that has shown total disregard for poc and women and lgbtq striving to remove their rights and the rote ruins under the 14th amendment

    You're an idiot.

  17. #92
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    Jesus you are spurt smart. Just terrible. Stick to arguing with the lessers on here, you’re way out of your depth at the adult table
    Said Mr. Pigeonholed-1-point-of-view-closed-minded-idiot. Get a new schtick.

  18. #93
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    tweet not showing up.

    but yes, both sex, sexual iden y, and sexual preference are all on spectrums, and not really binary
    shows up for me

  19. #94
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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  20. #95
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Feminism allegedly damages the marriage cow, also known as a bride.

    What is paterfamilias but disposal of wife, daughter and children qua cattle?

  21. #96
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Possibly because the image is in your local cache. That happens sometimes when linking things from other places.

    Dunno.

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