Paul Ryan’s plan to phase out Medicare is just what Democrats need

[boutons_deux]

Wait....so the ACA is a way for big pharm to fleece Americans....you said it, not me.

ACA never said it was setting BigInsurance or BigPharm prices. IIRC, there was some deal with BigPharma, but BigPharma still got paid.

You People's red herring is that "ACA hasn't reduced prices", but ACA was never about that. If ACA had even talked about limiting costs (profits to BigHealthcare), ACA would have never been passed ( "Harry-and-Louise'd" ).

In fact, a report this week says healthcare spending is way up, because more people under ACA are getting (more) health care.

$10K/person, $3.2T for USA. That's BigHealthCare setting prices, not ACA.

The fundamental problem is for-profit health care, not ACA.

And the Repugs will never touch for-profit health care. In fact, the Repug destruction of ACA and Medicare is to INCREASE the profits of BigHealthCare out of the pockets of citizens.

[rmt]

An 18k person company self-insures - that's why you don't feel as much of a change in premiums as others. A small company does not have that luxury. It is at the mercy (like Obamacare website) of whatever rating you live in (which includes more "sicker" people) than an employed, working big company. In a big company, the young people help bring the premiums down - in the marketplace, young people just are not buying the policies. But ALL policies (whether employer-sponsored or exchanges) are, on the whole, more expensive because they MUST cover 10 essential benefits like maternity, pediatric dental/vision, etc regardless of whether you can use it. Before, people could buy just catastrophic cover and pay routine bills or buy lesser coverage policies (what they felt they need) - not useless coverage that they could never use. ACA also mandated a maximum of 3x-1 for old to young people instead of (iirc) 5x-1 previously - totally rips off young people.

And, boutons, I'll remind you again of the 85-15% rule - insurance companies can only use 15% to cover expenses, profit, etc - they have to refund the rest if they spend less than 85% on healthcare.

[boutons_deux]

"85-15% rule"

... so the insurance companies keep raising their prices, like they've done for decades, to keep their 85% going up.

how many insurance companies have paid up under that rule and how much have they paid?

[rmt]

"85-15% rule"

... so the insurance companies keep raising their prices, like they've done for decades, to keep their 85% going up.

how many insurance companies have paid up under that rule and how much have they paid?

It's their 15% - do you really think that they are deliberately raising the price (and risk losing more customers)? They want quan y - that's the tradeoff they made with Obama - that and millions more under Medicaid - readymade customers. The only way for ACA to work as currently written was for the mandate (of not buying coverage) to be equal to the average policy price - high enough to force everybody to buy in and IRS has to have teeth to enforce - not the current collecting if you over withhold.

[rmt]

Even then, if young, healthy or people with no assets decided it's still not worth it, what would IRS do - audit them all and fine? Impossible.

[rmt]

It's a waste of money for ALL policies to be mandated to have what government considers 10 essential benefits that we don't want or need. Allow catastrophic insurance to be sold. Allow pre-existing conditions with the same "continuous coverage" that employer-sponsored insurance and COBRA now enjoy. Allow HSA for each person from birth - allow tax-free funding - and passing on HSAs to heirs. Allow anybody to fund another's HSA (parents, relatives, friends, acquaintances, charities) either with tax-free funds or from their own HSA when disaster strikes.

I don't think single, able-bodied people without kids should be on Medicaid or force them to work for it. Block fund money to the states for Medicaid/poor. Legislate that health care providers must post their prices. Tort reform - loser pays (that'll cut down on frivolous lawsuits). Comparison shop for non-emergency healthcare - yes, there are $80 bilateral mammograms or $59 Comprehensive Wellness Profile* - cash or HSA debit (no middleman).

* https://www.directlabs.com/?tabid=2492

Well, Direct Labs does take credit cards so I guess there is the cc company middleman.

[SnakeBoy]

Because I agree in the sense that ACA is seriously flawed. But the flaws are because of the compromise Obama agreed to that allows insurance companies to dictate prices. Obama and his healthcare act aren't technically the enemies here. The enemy is, and always has been, the insurance companies. Single Payer is the only answer.

Unicorn approved

[rmt]

Because I agree in the sense that ACA is seriously flawed. But the flaws are because of the compromise Obama agreed to that allows insurance companies to dictate prices. Obama and his healthcare act aren't technically the enemies here. The enemy is, and always has been, the insurance companies. Single Payer is the only answer.

Obama and the ACA are at fault too. LOL at him thinking that young people are going buy in from the goodness of their hearts to pay for the old and sick. Stupid to force all policies to carry the 10 essential benefits - makes them TOO expensive.

Single payer will dramatically reduce development in drugs, medical devices, medical advances. No one will put up research money if there is no profit in it. The best and brightest will flee to other fields - do you think they'll accept the pittance the government will set with their huge student debt from medical schools. Some still don't get it - they think that people are gonna act for the general good of society - no, it's about the money whether it's the young or corporations regarding research.

[boutons_deux]

Single payer will dramatically reduce development in drugs, medical devices, medical advances.

goddam, you're stupid.

For years, BigPharma spends twice as much on marketing as it does on research, to corrupt doctors, and to convince sheeple that their health depends on taking pills.

They also spend $Bs on keeping generics off the market.

And much of that research is spent tweaking slightly their patented drugs to extend the patents.

goddam, you're stupid.

[Shastafarian]

I have nothing of intelligence to add so I'll just parrot a catch phrase to try and undermine someone's opinion

Yeah, we know.

Obama and the ACA are at fault too. LOL at him thinking that young people are going buy in from the goodness of their hearts to pay for the old and sick. Stupid to force all policies to carry the 10 essential benefits - makes them TOO expensive.

LOL yeah that's so obviously his fault, even though he was a strong proponent of single payer and only had to abandon it because of people in government who think like you.

Single payer will dramatically reduce development in drugs, medical devices, medical advances. No one will put up research money if there is no profit in it. The best and brightest will flee to other fields - do you think they'll accept the pittance the government will set with their huge student debt from medical schools. Some still don't get it - they think that people are gonna act for the general good of society - no, it's about the money whether it's the young or corporations regarding research.

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Not sure why I'm asking since I know you don't. How are countries like Japan, Germany, and England doing in terms of medical research? even hole CUBA developed a viable lung cancer vaccine YEARS AGO. America is the greatest! But paying for its citizens' healthcare, like most other industrialized nations, is out of the question! It should be fun to see your thoughts once all of this comes crashing down and you're left with a husband who can no longer secure government contracts (only for his wife to complain incessantly about them).

[boutons_deux]

In fact just this year our insurer raised our premiums another 146% forcing us to hit the market.

ACA didn't raise your premiums, BigInsurance did, for more profits for investors, as they always have for decades and always will.

Hilarious that you think voucherizing Medicare and Medicaid or whatever the the Repugs end up screwing America with, will reduce the prices and profits. Repugs will force Americans, including you rightwing dumb s, of all ages to pay more.

[Axl Rose]

Ryan is a follower not a leader, Medicare isn't going anywhere

[johnsmith]

ACA didn't raise your premiums, BigInsurance did, for more profits for investors, as they always have for decades and always will.

Hilarious that you think voucherizing Medicare and Medicaid or whatever the the Repugs end up screwing America with, will reduce the prices and profits. Repugs will force Americans, including you rightwing dumb s, of all ages to pay more.

its hilarious that you think there isn't a correlation between Obamacare and the insurance companies jacking up rates.

Again, I know you hate everyone that works for a living, but stop and use some critical thinking.

It was nice to get your mom off my insurance though.

[boutons_deux]

Ryan is a follower not a leader, Medicare isn't going anywhere

Medicare will be privatized, and your idol Don The Con will sign it without hesitation.

[Axl Rose]

Lol "will"

[boutons_deux]

its hilarious that you think there isn't a correlation between Obamacare and the insurance companies jacking up rates.

Again, I know you hate everyone that works for a living, but stop and use some critical thinking.

It was nice to get your mom off my insurance though.

Insurance rates go up every year, for decades. ACA is just pretext

[rmt]

Yeah, we know.

LOL yeah that's so obviously his fault, even though he was a strong proponent of single payer and only had to abandon it because of people in government who think like you.


Do you have any evidence to back this up? Not sure why I'm asking since I know you don't. How are countries like Japan, Germany, and England doing in terms of medical research? even hole CUBA developed a viable lung cancer vaccine YEARS AGO. America is the greatest! But paying for its citizens' healthcare, like most other industrialized nations, is out of the question! It should be fun to see your thoughts once all of this comes crashing down and you're left with a husband who can no longer secure government contracts (only for his wife to complain incessantly about them).

It's not my fault Obama couldn't control his Democrats and get single payer through when he had both chambers - remember not a single Republican vote needed for ACA.

Wow, wishing ill/for things to come crashing down. Good luck with that single payer - first Vermont, then Colorado has decided against it.

[rmt]

Insurance rates go up every year, for decades. ACA is just pretext

Not like this - along with the drastic increase in deductibles, copays, narrowing of networks and sometimes only 1 insurer available.

[johnsmith]

Insurance rates go up every year, for decades. ACA is just pretext

Lol....ok man...the huge increase in everything that coincided with the ACA is exactly like it's always been and it's only in my imagination as well as a huge swath of the middle class.....weird that you guys lost the election.

[boutons_deux]

"everything that coincided with the ACA"

yep, coincidence is proof. But when dealing with BigCorp, assume they're lying (raising rates with ACA as cover).

[boutons_deux]

Fleecing by BigHealthCare is gonna get much worse.

Insurers’ Flawed Directories Leave Patients Scrambling for In-Network Doctors

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/03/us...er=rss&emc=rss

and the Repugs mysterious, unknowable ACA replacement policies will enable the worsening

And there's absolutely nothing Human-Americans can do to fix it, or even stop it.

Bend over, grab your ankles, The Doc Will Rape You Now.

[Shastafarian]

It's not my fault Obama couldn't control his Democrats and get single payer through when he had both chambers - remember not a single Republican vote needed for ACA.

Except that's not what would happen. He did not have a super majority. Nice try though!

Wow, wishing ill/for things to come crashing down. Good luck with that single payer - first Vermont, then Colorado has decided against it.

I hope you're not teaching your kids reading comprehension. I said it should be fun once it happens. Not wishing for it to happen because I already know it will happen lol

I think it's actually much more de able to root for people NOT to have healthcare. You know, like you do!

[rmt]

Except that's not what would happen. He did not have a super majority. Nice try though!


I hope you're not teaching your kids reading comprehension. I said it should be fun once it happens. Not wishing for it to happen because I already know it will happen lol

I think it's actually much more de able to root for people NOT to have healthcare. You know, like you do!

From Wikipedia:

With the Republican Senate minority vowing to filibuster, 60 votes would be necessary to pass the Senate.[155] At the start of the 111th Congress, Democrats had only 58 votes; the Senate seat in Minnesota ultimately won by Al Franken was still undergoing a recount, while Arlen Specter was still a Republican (he became a Democrat in April, 2009).

Negotiations were undertaken attempting to satisfy moderate Democrats and to bring Republican senators aboard; particular attention was given to Republicans Bennett, Enzi, Grassley and Snowe. On July 7 Franken was sworn into office, providing a potential 60th vote. On August 25 Ted Kennedy—a longtime healthcare reform advocate—died. Paul Kirk was appointed as Senator Kennedy's temporary replacement on September 24.

After the Finance Committee vote on October 15, negotiations turned to moderate Democrats. Majority leader Harry Reid focused on satisfying centrists. The holdouts came down to Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, an independent who caucused with Democrats, and conservative Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson. Lieberman's demand that the bill not include a public option[139][156] was met,[157] although supporters won various concessions, including allowing state-based public options such as Vermont's Green Mountain Care.[157][158]


Senate vote by state.
Democratic yes (58)
Independent yes (2)
Republican no (39)
Republican not voting (1)
The White House and Reid addressed Nelson's concerns[159] during a 13-hour negotiation with two concessions: a compromise on abortion, modifying the language of the bill "to give states the right to prohibit coverage of abortion within their own insurance exchanges", which would require consumers to pay for the procedure out of pocket if the state so decided; and an amendment to offer a higher rate of Medicaid reimbursement for Nebraska.[133][160] The latter half of the compromise was derisively termed the "Cornhusker Kickback"[161] and was repealed in the subsequent reconciliation amendment bill.

On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster. The bill then passed, also 60–39, on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for it, and all Republicans against (except Jim Bunning, who did not vote).

My apologies - it was an independent who demanded no public option and voted for ACA without it. Still - no republican voted for it.

I have no worries about my kids' reading comprehension. I have no objection to people having healthcare - I just don't want to pay for theirs.

[Shastafarian]

From Wikipedia:

With the Republican Senate minority vowing to filibuster, 60 votes would be necessary to pass the Senate.[155] At the start of the 111th Congress, Democrats had only 58 votes; the Senate seat in Minnesota ultimately won by Al Franken was still undergoing a recount, while Arlen Specter was still a Republican (he became a Democrat in April, 2009).

Negotiations were undertaken attempting to satisfy moderate Democrats and to bring Republican senators aboard; particular attention was given to Republicans Bennett, Enzi, Grassley and Snowe. On July 7 Franken was sworn into office, providing a potential 60th vote. On August 25 Ted Kennedy—a longtime healthcare reform advocate—died. Paul Kirk was appointed as Senator Kennedy's temporary replacement on September 24.

After the Finance Committee vote on October 15, negotiations turned to moderate Democrats. Majority leader Harry Reid focused on satisfying centrists. The holdouts came down to Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, an independent who caucused with Democrats, and conservative Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson. Lieberman's demand that the bill not include a public option[139][156] was met,[157] although supporters won various concessions, including allowing state-based public options such as Vermont's Green Mountain Care.[157][158]


Senate vote by state.
Democratic yes (58)
Independent yes (2)
Republican no (39)
Republican not voting (1)
The White House and Reid addressed Nelson's concerns[159] during a 13-hour negotiation with two concessions: a compromise on abortion, modifying the language of the bill "to give states the right to prohibit coverage of abortion within their own insurance exchanges", which would require consumers to pay for the procedure out of pocket if the state so decided; and an amendment to offer a higher rate of Medicaid reimbursement for Nebraska.[133][160] The latter half of the compromise was derisively termed the "Cornhusker Kickback"[161] and was repealed in the subsequent reconciliation amendment bill.

On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster. The bill then passed, also 60–39, on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for it, and all Republicans against (except Jim Bunning, who did not vote).

My apologies - it was an independent who demanded no public option and voted for ACA without it. Still - no republican voted for it.

I misspoke. He would not* have had a super majority with a single payer law to be voted on.

I have no worries about my kids' reading comprehension. I have no objection to people having healthcare - I just don't want to pay for theirs.

I mean this was obvious. Everyone here knows you only care about money (and jesus).

[boutons_deux]

Ben "horse's ass" Nelson was an Insurance industry shill, toady, and after Congress went on to be an insurance commissioner. iow, DINO.

Lieberman is owned by the insurance companies in CT