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  1. #31
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    You tried to use a hyperbole comparing Rivaldo and Giroud, but it's just a really poor comparison overall. Rivaldo is light years ahead of Giroud as a player, in the club or the NT and it's not even close.
    I used that hyperbole because both are tall, playing near the surface, are quite slow, good head players, don't create for others, are important for spacing and needs a system adapted to them to play well. Also they are known to play better for their club than NT. That's why I used this comparaison I did not say they are at same level, I explicitely said Rivaldo is better now if saying way way way better is enough to please you, I have no issue with that.

    Rivaldo had to carry Barcelona during the dark days when they didn't even have money to keep prime Ronaldo and had to sell him to Italy . Rivaldo still managed to lead them to 2 Spanish titles, a Copa del Rey and a Supercup facing a totally stacked RM. He won the FIFA's World best player during his Barça time as well. Don't forget that he also won titles with La Coruña.
    yes, a great club player

    Rivaldo's resume with Brazil includes : a Federation Cup, a Copa America in 99 (best player of the tournament beating peak Ronaldo who's probably the GOAT 9), 2 WC Finals and 1 WC title and he made the WC best 11 both times. He has 37 goals in 75 matches for the Brazilian NT and 8 goals in the WC. That's an average of 0.49, which is a better than Henry, Benzema, Giroud, Trezeguet and Griezmann for the French NT.
    well you compare his average goal with France but I guess Brazil historically scores more than France so kinda biased. I have seen 35 goals in 75 games (close enough) which is indeed better than the guys you named but significantly worst than Papin (to take a French example) or Romario (to take a Brazilian one) for instance.

    I don't see how you can say that he was just a club player. That's just not true. He won everything you can possibly get as a player, team-wise and individually, in clubs or in Brazil. Not making the top 5 list in Brazil is not a shame for a any player. Brazil is stacked when it comes individual talent historically.
    Rivaldo club > Rivaldo NT

    yes Brazil is stacked indeed but Rivaldo would not be on a first or second France all time great list either

  2. #32
    Hello Moto elemento's Avatar
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    I used that hyperbole because both are tall, playing near the surface, are quite slow, good head players, don't create for others, are important for spacing and needs a system adapted to them to play well. Also they are known to play better for their club than NT. That's why I used this comparaison I did not say they are at same level, I explicitely said Rivaldo is better now if saying way way way better is enough to please you, I have no issue with that.
    The only thing that Giroud and Rivaldo have in similar is the fact that they're lefties and it stops there. I'm pretty damn sure that you absolutely have the wrong picture about him. To me it seems that you're talking about a totally different player. Giroud is a CF and Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder. Rivaldo was not slow at all, especially in the open field. Rivaldo was much better dribbling the ball and he had elite 1st touch and control.

    Rivaldo played 14 games in the World Cup. He had 8 goals and 4 assists in 14 games. Just for sake's of comparison, Zidane had 5 goals and 2 assists in 15 games and both assists came in dead ball situations. (a corner and a freekick).

    Again, Rivaldo was part of the best XI in both WCs he played.

    Rivaldo was never known for playing better for his team than for his NT at all. Ronaldinho was known for that.

    Since you have BR connections, just ask any of your Brazilian fellows how they feel about Rivaldo in the Brazilian NT. In terms of importance in the past 20 years, he is probably a top 3 along with Ronaldo and Romario. That's how good he was for the Brazilian NT, especially in the WC. Most Brazilians feel he is one of the most underrated Brazilian players of all-time.


    well you compare his average goal with France but I guess Brazil historically scores more than France so kinda biased. I have seen 35 goals in 75 games (close enough) which is indeed better than the guys you named but significantly worst than Papin (to take a French example) or Romario (to take a Brazilian one) for instance.

    Rivaldo club > Rivaldo NT

    yes Brazil is stacked indeed but Rivaldo would not be on a first or second France all time great list either
    It's not biased. Even if Brazil scores more goals historically, Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder not a striker and he had to "compete" for goals with Romario and Ronaldo and it's not an easy task at all.

    Honestly, when it comes to football history in clubs and NT, there aren't many french footballers that I'd take over Rivaldo. Zidane and Platini and that's it.
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  3. #33
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    The only thing that Giroud and Rivaldo have in similar is the fact that they're lefties and it stops there. I'm pretty damn sure that you absolutely have the wrong picture about him. To me it seems that you're talking about a totally different player. Giroud is a CF and Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder. Rivaldo was not slow at all, especially in the open field. Rivaldo was much better dribbling the ball and he had elite 1st touch and control.

    Rivaldo played 14 games in the World Cup. He had 8 goals and 4 assists in 14 games. Just for sake's of comparison, Zidane had 5 goals and 2 assists in 15 games and both assists came in dead ball situations. (a corner and a freekick).

    Again, Rivaldo was part of the best XI in both WCs he played.

    Rivaldo was never known for playing better for his team than for his NT at all. Ronaldinho was known for that.

    Since you have BR connections, just ask any of your Brazilian fellows how they feel about Rivaldo in the Brazilian NT. In terms of importance in the past 20 years, he is probably a top 3 along with Ronaldo and Romario. That's how good he was for the Brazilian NT, especially in the WC. Most Brazilians feel he is one of the most underrated Brazilian players of all-time.
    Reading you, you could think dude was a #10 or something. He was not a #9 for sure but he played forward as far as I remember for La corogne and the Barcelona, he is more a 9 and half than a midfielder. In 2002 midfield was held by ronaldinho, kleber and silva... Rivaldo supporting ronaldo mostly on the left side. After Barcelona, I have no idea he went to play for some greek teams... He was not spectacular at all on dribbling and I fail to remember him not being slow ...

    Zidane had 5 goals, 3 in finals not really comparable... 8 goals, half of them blow out wins against china, costa rica and such.

    I have BR connections and they apparently are not fans of Palmeira or Sao Paulo because their feeling is not quite the same than you, 20 years is quite a long time and I'm pretty sure he is not a top 3 since 86


    It's not biased. Even if Brazil scores more goals historically, Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder not a striker and he had to "compete" for goals with Romario and Ronaldo and it's not an easy task at all.


    Honestly, when it comes to football history in clubs and NT, there aren't many french footballers that I'd take over Rivaldo. Zidane and Platini and that's it.
    that's because you probably don't know enough french players

  4. #34
    Hello Moto elemento's Avatar
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    Reading you, you could think dude was a #10 or something. He was not a #9 for sure but he played forward as far as I remember for La corogne and the Barcelona, he is more a 9 and half than a midfielder. In 2002 midfield was held by ronaldinho, kleber and silva... Rivaldo supporting ronaldo mostly on the left side. After Barcelona, I have no idea he went to play for some greek teams... He was not spectacular at all on dribbling and I fail to remember him not being slow ...

    Zidane had 5 goals, 3 in finals not really comparable... 8 goals, half of them blow out wins against china, costa rica and such.

    I have BR connections and they apparently are not fans of Palmeira or Sao Paulo because their feeling is not quite the same than you, 20 years is quite a long time and I'm pretty sure he is not a top 3 since 86


    that's because you probably don't know enough french players
    He wasn't a pure 10, but he was definitely not a 9 either. He was better dribbling than Giroud, my point here. Mostly simple cuts and changing directions, not something fancy like Dinho ou Ronaldo. As I said, not slow at all in the open field.

    You're just going from 8 to 80. Zidane scored 3 important goals sure but 3 goals from dead balls . You're forgetting the 4 assists (quite impressive from someone who can't pass like you said) and the fact that Rivaldo saved Brazil's ass in the playoffs against Denmark in 98 and against Belgium and England in 02. So no Rivaldo, no WC Finals and no WC title either.

    Your friends are probably too young to appreciate Rivaldo and 20 years is 96 tbh, not 86. Yes, he is a top 3 in terms of importance for the Brazilian team since 96.

    Actually I do know a lot of French players. I just wonder who besides Zidane and Planiti has a case over Rivaldo. I simply fail to see it.

  5. #35
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    The only thing that Giroud and Rivaldo have in similar is the fact that they're lefties and it stops there. I'm pretty damn sure that you absolutely have the wrong picture about him. To me it seems that you're talking about a totally different player. Giroud is a CF and Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder. Rivaldo was not slow at all, especially in the open field. Rivaldo was much better dribbling the ball and he had elite 1st touch and control.

    Rivaldo played 14 games in the World Cup. He had 8 goals and 4 assists in 14 games. Just for sake's of comparison, Zidane had 5 goals and 2 assists in 15 games and both assists came in dead ball situations. (a corner and a freekick).

    Again, Rivaldo was part of the best XI in both WCs he played.

    Rivaldo was never known for playing better for his team than for his NT at all. Ronaldinho was known for that.

    Since you have BR connections, just ask any of your Brazilian fellows how they feel about Rivaldo in the Brazilian NT. In terms of importance in the past 20 years, he is probably a top 3 along with Ronaldo and Romario. That's how good he was for the Brazilian NT, especially in the WC. Most Brazilians feel he is one of the most underrated Brazilian players of all-time.



    It's not biased. Even if Brazil scores more goals historically, Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder not a striker and he had to "compete" for goals with Romario and Ronaldo and it's not an easy task at all.

    Honestly, when it comes to football history in clubs and NT, there aren't many french footballers that I'd take over Rivaldo. Zidane and Platini and that's it.
    Son I agree with you 100%, especially the bolded. That's pretty much the way I feel about him as well.

    Brazil just seems to be out of his element here tbh
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  6. #36
    65 tons of American pride Canyonero's Avatar
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    Also GOAT flopper against Turkey tbh
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  7. #37
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    He wasn't a pure 10, but he was definitely not a 9 either. He was better dribbling than Giroud, my point here. Mostly simple cuts and changing directions, not something fancy like Dinho ou Ronaldo. As I said, not slow at all in the open field.
    I'm happy to see you agree with me... 9 and half, second striker... if your point is to say he can run fast when he has time to launch the motor... agreed

    You're just going from 8 to 80. Zidane scored 3 important goals sure but 3 goals from dead balls . You're forgetting the 4 assists (quite impressive from someone who can't pass like you said) and the fact that Rivaldo saved Brazil's ass in the playoffs against Denmark in 98 and against Belgium and England in 02. So no Rivaldo, no WC Finals and no WC title either.
    not sure how it is kind of negative for Zidane to have scored on dead balls tbh... zidane is a pure 10 not a striker so yeah his goals are definitely more impressive than Rivaldo's in wc

    Your friends are probably too young to appreciate Rivaldo and 20 years is 96 tbh, not 86. Yes, he is a top 3 in terms of importance for the Brazilian team since 96.
    ya 96 sorry... still not top 3 unless you consider rivaldo > neymar

    Actually I do know a lot of French players. I just wonder who besides Zidane and Planiti has a case over Rivaldo. I simply fail to see it.
    I know Brazilian can be very arrogant when topic is football but come on son... so a dude who does not make the 4th or 5th all time team is better than whole french all time ? you must be kidding... French football is obviously small fry compared to Brazil but we have had some great players... Henry, Canto, Tigana, Fontaine, Kopa, Giresse, Rocheteau, Youri,... just taking strikers and midfield dudes

  8. #38
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Also GOAT flopper against Turkey tbh
    he has had some great flops during his career... true

  9. #39
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    To close the topic, I'm sorry I hit some Brazilian nerve with Rivaldo/Giroud, that was not my intention. I was just comparing some charasteristics both have did not know he was so beloved....

    In all honestly in all football conversation I'm having for about 10 years in Brazil, I never felt Rivaldo was dat dude, I am having a lot of yeah great striker and meh with Brazil except Palmeiras fans tbh... very different when you talk about Romario for instance, people I know love Romario. From what I saw of him during his years playing for Barcelona and greek teams he is not your traditional Brazilian talented guy more a solid blue colar talented to score the ball and I was never impressed by his perf with NT.

  10. #40
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    still not top 3 unless you consider rivaldo > neymar
    well duh

  11. #41
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    not sure how it is kind of negative for Zidane to have scored on dead balls tbh... zidane is a pure 10 not a striker so yeah his goals are definitely more impressive than Rivaldo's in wc

    It's not negative, it's a fact. Scoring on finals is great, but he did it on dead balls. He only had 2 assists during 15 games in the WCs. For a pure organizer, that seems underwhelming especially when you consider the fact that Rivaldo had twice the assists of Zidane playing 1 less WC as an attacking midfielder. For a guy that can't pass like you said it seems very good tbh.

    You tried to imply that Rivaldo only scored against garbage teams in the WC, when it's not a fact so i had to debunk it. You said : "good club player only known for scoring, average talent other than that but sub par performance with Brazil, not sure dude even scored a relevant goal for Brazil during a WC. "
    He scored key goals against Denmark (2 goals), England and Belgium, all in the playoffs and without him Brazil does not win shit.


    ya 96 sorry... still not top 3 unless you consider rivaldo > neymar
    Not yet son. I think Neymar is better than Rivaldo, but he hasn't reached Rivaldo's level with the "Amarelinha" yet. Depends on what Neymar does in the next WC. Olympics was a great feat, but it's not the main NT and Fed Cup is not enough to pass Rivaldo for now.

    I know Brazilian can be very arrogant when topic is football but come on son... so a dude who does not make the 4th or 5th all time team is better than whole french all time ? you must be kidding... French football is obviously small fry compared to Brazil but we have had some great players... Henry, Canto, Tigana, Fontaine, Kopa, Giresse, Rocheteau, Youri,... just taking strikers and midfield dudes
    Arrogant ? C'mon son don't play this lame game. I'm arrogant because I fail to see how Giroud and Rivaldo are comparable ? hahahahaha !


    Imagine If i tried to compare Hulk with Henry. That's how bad your take was tbh.

    You named a lot of guys, but who among them has a legit case over Rivaldo ? Maybe Henry, but it's highly debatable. But Rivaldo wouldn't even sniff France's 2nd all-time team according to you and i'm the arrogant guy

  12. #42
    65 tons of American pride Canyonero's Avatar
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    I think Brazil is just trying to troll you tbh

  13. #43
    Hello Moto elemento's Avatar
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    Brazil is half about jks and half serious. I'm too.

    He has some French pride and I know it just reading the way the defends french players, especially TP on the Spurs forum.

    It's ok. We can move on here. I have nothing but respect for the French NT. Rivaldo would start in their all-time 11 though

  14. #44
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    ^ not a chance

  15. #45
    american HERO! dfens's Avatar
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    It's not negative, it's a fact. Scoring on finals is great, but he did it on dead balls. He only had 2 assists during 15 games in the WCs. For a pure organizer, that seems underwhelming especially when you consider the fact that Rivaldo had twice the assists of Zidane playing 1 less WC as an attacking midfielder. For a guy that can't pass like you said it seems very good tbh.

    You tried to imply that Rivaldo only scored against garbage teams in the WC, when it's not a fact so i had to debunk it. You said : "good club player only known for scoring, average talent other than that but sub par performance with Brazil, not sure dude even scored a relevant goal for Brazil during a WC. "He scored key goals against Denmark (2 goals), England and Belgium, all in the playoffs and without him Brazil does not win shit.



    Not yet son. I think Neymar is better than Rivaldo, but he hasn't reached Rivaldo's level with the "Amarelinha" yet. Depends on what Neymar does in the next WC. Olympics was a great feat, but it's not the main NT and Fed Cup is not enough to pass Rivaldo for now.



    Arrogant ? C'mon son don't play this lame game. I'm arrogant because I fail to see how Giroud and Rivaldo are comparable ? hahahahaha !


    Imagine If i tried to compare Hulk with Henry. That's how bad your take was tbh.

    You named a lot of guys, but who among them has a legit case over Rivaldo ? Maybe Henry, but it's highly debatable. But Rivaldo wouldn't even sniff France's 2nd all-time team according to you and i'm the arrogant guy
    son, what? what has neymar done tbh? I don't see him carrying barcelona like rivaldo (messi is carrying that team..) and I don't see him winning major titles with brasil or carrying the NT against tough competition. Imo neymar << rivaldo tbh, neymar is just the only star player in brasil right now in this crazy marketing era.

    Btw henry has absolutely no case over rivaldo, such an overrated player, just like ibrahimovic.
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  16. #46
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    son, what? what has neymar done tbh? I don't see him carrying barcelona like rivaldo (messi is carrying that team..) and I don't see him winning major titles with brasil or carrying the NT against tough competition. Imo neymar << rivaldo tbh, neymar is just the only star player in brasil right now in this crazy marketing era.

    Btw henry has absolutely no case over rivaldo, such an overrated player, just like ibrahimovic.
    son you trippin'... After 2002 goat shit now neymar not like < rivaldo but <<

    Neymar is more talented than Rivaldo and it's not even remotely close. He carried Brazil more than Rivaldo ever carried Barcelona. Under Dunga period, Brazil was 100% dependant on Neymar, dude had a flue and the whole country was stopping breathing. Now in terms of career of course Neymar is not there yet but he is 24 y/o. Now we can compare both players at 24 y/o. At this age, Rivaldo was winning some titles in his domestic league and carried Brazil to bronze medal with, in this team, 23 y/o R Carlos, 19 y/o Ronaldo, Bebeto etc... give me a break. Ronaldo carried this nigga his whole career after that. At same age Neymar is winning La Liga, champions league and the gold medal at the olympics ... and btw Neymar is doing fine when Messi is not playing too so yeah go ahead with your neymar << rivaldo

    On Henry whatever man... I fail to see how he is overrated but each with his own agenda I guess

  17. #47
    Neymar is doing fine when Messi is not playing too so yeah go ahead with your neymar << rivaldo
    Neybitch couldn't penetrate Atletico's defense w/ TWO top 5 Ballon d'Or finalist as his striking partners.

    Griezmann is better that Neymar, tbh. (He proved it playing in the same league w/ inferior teammates)

  18. #48
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Neybitch couldn't penetrate Atletico's defense w/ TWO top 5 Ballon d'Or finalist as his striking partners.

    Griezmann is better that Neymar, tbh. (He proved it playing in the same league w/ inferior teammates)
    Im fine with that bra griezman > Neymar > rivaldo

  19. #49
    Im fine with that bra griezman > Neymar > rivaldo
    If only Griezmann could convert penalties at better than 50% rate.

    Neybitch has to carry Barfa w/o McBitey & Missi before he could be mentioned in the same breath as Rivaldo.
    Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 12-09-2016 at 08:46 PM.

  20. #50
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    If only Griezmann could convert penalties at better than 50% rate.

    Neybitch has to carry Barfa w/o McBitey & Missi before he could be mentioned in the same breath as Rivaldo.
    At 24 y/o rivaldo was carrying shit, he could not even carry the most stacked team in olympics history

  21. #51
    At 24 y/o rivaldo was carrying shit, he could not even carry the most stacked team in olympics history
    The '94-'98 Nigerian squad is the GOAT African team & could have won the WC if it was held in '96, tbh.



    They beat an Argentinean squad in the Gold medal match that had Zanetti/Simeone/Crespo/Ortega/Claudio Lopez/Ayala. Brazil couldn't handle Kanu/Okocha/Amokachi/Ikpeba without Cafu/Dunga & Babayaro ran a train on Roberto Carlos.



    Neybitch lost to Mexico who almost got KO'd by Senegal in the QF & Griezmann choked on his own soil against Portugal whom most argue had no business being in the Finals.
    Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 12-12-2016 at 06:51 PM.

  22. #52
    Neymar would have been Mario Jardel status with NT in any other Brazilian soccer era..

    Comparing him with Rivaldo ..

  23. #53
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    The '94-'98 Nigerian squad is the GOAT African team & could have won the WC if it was held in '96, tbh.



    They beat an Argentinean squad in the Gold medal match that had Zanetti/Simeone/Crespo/Ortega/Claudio Lopez. Brazil couldn't handle Kanu/Okocha/Amokachi/Ikpeba without Cafu/Dunga & Babayaro ran a train on Roberto Carlos.



    Neybitch lost to Mexico who almost got KO'd by Senegal in the QF & Griezmann choked on his own soil against Portugal whom most argue had no business being in the Finals.
    ya go ahead and compare both squad... only time rivaldo was the alpha dog for Brazil nt he ended up with a bronze medal... spinning dat shit.., but but Nigeria but but okocha I saw dude playing a bunch of his career you maybe right after all okocha >>> rivaldo

  24. #54
    ya go ahead and compare both squad... only time rivaldo was the alpha dog for Brazil nt he ended up with a bronze medal... spinning dat shit.., but but Nigeria but but okocha I saw dude playing a bunch of his career you maybe right after all okocha >>> rivaldo
    Your boy Henry aka Rivaldo 2.0 didn't even win a medal as the alpha, Zidane had to come out of retirement to rescue the team.
    Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 12-11-2016 at 08:46 AM.

  25. #55
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Neymar is more talented and it's not event close, if you don't see that you are a clown, he has probably more ball handling with his left foot than rivaldo both hands. At 24 y/o Neymar career > 24 y/o rivaldo career, nobody knows what career will be the best but at this age it's also not even close.

    then I'm not sure why I bother tbh, kawhistorm and some others must be 20-25 y/o, in 96 they certainly were still shitting their pants in b4 somebody explains to me by looking two vids and Wikipedia page who is jay jay okocha

  26. #56
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Your boy Henry aka Rivaldo 2.0 didn't even win a medal as the alpha.
    that's a common thing with rivaldo but then he was not playing with Ronaldo bebeto and Roberto Carlos among others. But hiw would you know anyway you probably never saw rivaldo playing other than footage

  27. #57
    that's a common thing with rivaldo but then he was not playing with Ronaldo bebeto and Roberto Carlos among others. But at would you know anyway you probably never saw rivaldo playing other than footage
    Yeah he only had Viera/Makelele/Desailly/Thuram/Petit/Trezeguet/Wiltord & led the team to the worst ever performance by a defending champion at the '02 WC when Zidane was injured.

  28. #58
    kawhistorm and some others must be 20-25 y/o, in 96 they certainly were still shitting their pants in b4 somebody explains to me by looking two vids and Wikipedia page who is jay jay okocha
    I'm an 80s baby son, I grew up watching Futbol when Ajax was running shyt w/ Nigerian talent & folks barely knew who Zidana/Ronaldo were outside of France/Brazil.

  29. #59
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    I don't think even Brazilians would put the 02 team in their top 3. That team needed penalties awarded outside the box and redcards from flops just to beat turkey, the playmaking was poor and the defense a bunch of stiffs. Imo, the weakest of all the brasil champ teams.

    Still better than 2010 Spain, I agree with that

  30. #60
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Yeah he only had Viera/Makelele/Desailly/Thuram/Petit/Trezeguet/Wiltord & led the team to the worst ever performance by a defending champion at the '02 WC when Zidane was injured.
    duh I was talking about olympics... that was the aim of the post... try to keep up... you were talking about medal

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