We're talking about the same fan base who has claimed Rooney >>> Eto'O & Benzema >>> Ibrahimovic
Messi has the more talented teammates, but again look at how poor Argentina is when Messi doesn't play. Yet you guys conveniently forget to mention that. And also conveniently ignore the fact that Pepe was one of the best players of the Euro's, their manager was fantastic and the team won a FINAL without penaldo.
The biggest moment of Penaldo's career is him being on the sidelines
Midget's teammates rang at the WC and Euro with Barca's team minus midget
Argentina would most likely rang too if they removed the cancer from the team.
I'm talking National teammates, pay attention. Penaldo's teammates from RM also rang a WC and Euro too, hate to break it to you.
Argentina has consistently been even without the "cancer" you speak of. They can't even beat Paraguay or Bolivia without him.
Fact, Messi without Argentina <<<<< Portugal without Penaldo.
Pelé stayed in Brazil, but at the time they were playing the best football in the world. Out of his +1000 goals, more than 500 were in friendlies, so Ronaldo and Messi are near in official goals. Pelé was very fast, strong and could jump +1m for headers, fantastic technique, I think he would be great in any era. Neymar doesn't have an elite aerial game, neither do Messi.
But Neymar and Messi have an elite playmaking and building game, they would have had an absolute field day in Pele's era.
Sorry to disrupt this brilliant back and fourth about who is the better player between pepe or misty but tbh pele's era was like that because of several reasons.
based on 70 years of footballing evolution and having access to all possible information from the previous eras included but not limited to:
- tactical (why did brasil fail in '82 with such talent, why england style sucks, why pressing is good, etc)
- technical (how to do a rabona, chilena, etc)
- technological (how to do X)
- nutrition related (what when and how much to eat)
- financial (the game is now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back then in terms of $$$)
- training (what muscles to train, interval training, what position best suits me, how to gain lateral quickness)
- medical (high quality steroids, easier to control drug/alchol addictions)
it's no wonder misty or neymar would look like gods 70 years ago. Without a time machine it's also impossible and pointless. You can't compare a dude outside of his environment. You put misty in the 60s and in 10 years a whole new generation of players would learn all his tricks, the cute fast dribbling style, the barcelona cuts, the skills, everything tbh, how to defend against such a player. In another 10 tactics would also generally improve towards pressing a team with a player like messi to deny the ball. Like anything else the game is quite alive and nobody stays on top without constant adaptation.
Imo the game has also regressed:
- toughness (compare '78 finals with '14 finals
- mental (access to feminist psychologists, -on-call-analtherapist vs s learning football on the street or playing in future/past World War encounters)
- too much exposure, no time for the players to disconnect.
- loyalty and effort : too much money and too many sellouts have eroded what football is really about: winning as a team. When players go to their NT they don't give it all, it's just another day at the office.
- fan leniency on flopping -> ty game.
I will tell you one thing that is lost these days, the true killer instinct/seize the moment superstar, like dad killer, like maradroga, like zidane. This lack of street toughness is making all this new talent stagnate in the face of greatness. These old s knew to take the punches head on and to grab a game by the throat in the face of pressure. You wouldn't hear zidane saying "the ball is too far back, xavi pls bring it". These new soft betas need perfect conditions and they create a ing circus everytime goes bad (kome, lebeta, misty, penaldo, neymar, bra7il). When they start getting older they finally start to man up but they never peak athletically as men. There is no big difference in natural talent imo, just benefits of increased game training/tactical/exposure/financial/etc experience, and yes, 20, 30, 50 or 70 years of game evolution will definately make them better if compared raw, but maradona with today's training would be absolutely crazy. Imagine this without his drug addiction and with proper modern training from age 12.
lol Pele is the one who have a field day in today's era tbh
dfens, damn good postSorry to disrupt this brilliant back and fourth about who is the better player between pepe or misty but tbh pele's era was like that because of several reasons.
based on 70 years of footballing evolution and having access to all possible information from the previous eras included but not limited to:
- tactical (why did brasil fail in '82 with such talent, why england style sucks, why pressing is good, etc)
- technical (how to do a rabona, chilena, etc)
- technological (how to do X)
- nutrition related (what when and how much to eat)
- financial (the game is now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back then in terms of $$$)
- training (what muscles to train, interval training, what position best suits me, how to gain lateral quickness)
- medical (high quality steroids, easier to control drug/alchol addictions)
it's no wonder misty or neymar would look like gods 70 years ago. Without a time machine it's also impossible and pointless. You can't compare a dude outside of his environment. You put misty in the 60s and in 10 years a whole new generation of players would learn all his tricks, the cute fast dribbling style, the barcelona cuts, the skills, everything tbh, how to defend against such a player. In another 10 tactics would also generally improve towards pressing a team with a player like messi to deny the ball. Like anything else the game is quite alive and nobody stays on top without constant adaptation.
Imo the game has also regressed:
- toughness (compare '78 finals with '14 finals
- mental (access to feminist psychologists, -on-call-analtherapist vs s learning football on the street or playing in future/past World War encounters)
- too much exposure, no time for the players to disconnect.
- loyalty and effort : too much money and too many sellouts have eroded what football is really about: winning as a team. When players go to their NT they don't give it all, it's just another day at the office.
- fan leniency on flopping -> ty game.
I will tell you one thing that is lost these days, the true killer instinct/seize the moment superstar, like dad killer, like maradroga, like zidane. This lack of street toughness is making all this new talent stagnate in the face of greatness. These old s knew to take the punches head on and to grab a game by the throat in the face of pressure. You wouldn't hear zidane saying "the ball is too far back, xavi pls bring it
The contrast b/w the '86 & '90 WC was proof that you can't fool world-class teams w/ the same trick for that long even w/ a prodigious talent.
As far as Missi being better than DieGOAT, Simeone is out there playing 20th century Serie A Catenaccio defense to shutdown Barca while DieGOAT beasted in Serie A.
No striker also shat on Serie A defense as much as Fat Ronaldo did in '97-'98 without poaching.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 12-20-2016 at 12:09 PM.
Simeone is playing a brand new style of catenaccio, serie A teams are learning from it imo, not the other way around. This new style has more to do in spirit than in tactics with old school catenaccio tbh. There are no sweepers, no staying deep, no central wings (basically 4 postionally central and 2 lateral), and so on. Simeone is playing a defense in depth kind of strategy, they stay in their half but the defensive pressure mounts really fast and they are very compact while not lying deep. Also their quick counter play is their first defense as it puts positional pressure on the other team. Atletico also need lateral rotation heavily and this style is imo quite taxing on the lateral midfield/lwb/rwb/rb/lb positionally active players, so you can sometimes see their flanks getting demolished in some late games. Imo it's more of a great counter against stronger teams than a full blown team strategy, as it can be seen in atletico's results.The contrast b/w the '86 & '90 WC was proof that you can't fool world-class teams w/ the same trick for that long even w/ a prodigious talent.
As far as Missi being better than DieGOAT, Simone is out there playing 20th century Serie A Catenaccio defense to shutdown Barca while DieGOAT beasted in Serie A.
No striker also shat on Serie A defense as much as Fat Ronaldo did in '97-'98 without pouching.
As I always say, teams adapt and teams that can't adapt go through trouble, even stacked teams like barca.
Diego played in a brutal but not exceptionally tactical era in italy imo. Misty wouldn't have survived that era tbh, but he would've been just as effective while healthy.
I was actually thinking with a friend who coaches a d4 team that maradona's style wasn't as close quarters as messi's because the physicality of the game was just that much greater and attacking players naturally sought separation (loose play) instead of direct cutesy penetration (tight) like today, just from self preservation reasons. tbh maradona would probably play a tighter game as it is more efficient in this era. Come to think of it, the whole football game has been tightened and this is a big reason why the physicality has been brought way down and the flopping is waaaaay up. I dislike this style, it's too tight for me, but it's easy to sell this brand of posse player we got today. Hopefully when the masses get bored they'll change the game back. The big boys know where the $$$ is.
The contrast b/w the '86 & '90 WC was proof that you can't fool world-class teams w/ the same trick for that long even w/ a prodigious talent.
As far as Missi being better than DieGOAT, Simone is out there playing 20th century Serie A Catenaccio defense to shutdown Barca while DieGOAT beasted in Serie A.
No striker also shat on Serie A defense as much as Fat Ronaldo did in '97-'98 without pouching.
This is how I feel about the modern NBA.
The the CL happened where Simeone went balls deep.
They do own us in CL it's true, but m god were Lucho's tactics horrible in last year's CL matchup. Barca has a 2-1 lead on AGG and what does Lucho have the team do? Try to hold the ball for 90 minutes and play as defensive as possibleThe the CL happened where Simeone went balls deep.
I appreciate the treble and the two trophies from last season but I hope he leaves after this year.
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