Just when you think you're out, he pulls you back in. Parker thread.

[midnightpulp]

There's been some concern about whether Mills can succeed without Manu Ginobili alongside him to share ballhandling duties. I don't think the statistical evidence backs that up. The Spurs have a slightly better offensive rating (and net rating) when Mills plays without Ginobili, per NBA.com/Stats, and such lineups that include Kawhi Leonard have been more effective, posting a sizzling 115.6 offensive rating in 447 minutes. Some of that is probably Leonard and company beating up on second units, but we've also seen Mills finish several games recently.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18990898/kevin-pelton-weekly-nba-mailbag-including-bradley-beal

You're still not thinking of what to do with Parker, though.

So Green starts alongside Mills. Okay. That means Parker and Manu are the first guards off the bench. Right now, that pair has a +5.6 net rating. Mills and Manu have a +12.6 net rating. Furthermore, the lineup that Patty does best with that doesn't include Manu is Gasol, LMA, Kawhi, Green. That means starting Pau again. Good luck with a bench consisting of Dedmon, Lee, Fathead, Manu, and Parker doing anything offensively, especially if Manu and Parker are having one of their oldman off nights.

This is why Patty (and Gasol) continue to come off the bench:

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advance...sort=MIN&dir=1

You can see that Dedmon replacing Gasol in the starting lineup improves them from a 7.3 net to an 8.4 net. But check out what happens when Gasol and Patty come in for Dedmon and Parker. +23 net. Absolutely killing teams.

[midnightpulp]

Good counter argument. Stats confirm its worth expirementing with for these last few regular season games.

Someone should laminate that article and put it inside pops wine bottle. He will see it and read it after a full bottle and might convince himself when intoxicated

Not really. The Helmet crew's plan would force Parker to come off the bench with Manu, where they have a 5.6 net rating compared to the 12.6 net rating Mills and Manu have.

Their plan is only viable if you can 37-38 mins out of Patty. Good luck with that.

[FkLA]

You're still not thinking of what to do with Parker, though.

So Green starts alongside Mills. Okay. That means Parker and Manu are the first guards off the bench. Right now, that pair has a +5.6 net rating. Mills and Manu have a +12.6 net rating. Furthermore, the lineup that Patty does best with that doesn't include Manu is Gasol, LMA, Kawhi, Green. That means starting Pau again. Good luck with a bench consisting of Dedmon, Lee, Fathead, Manu, and Parker doing anything offensively, especially if Manu and Parker are having one of their oldman off nights.

This is why Patty (and Gasol) continue to come off the bench:

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advance...sort=MIN&dir=1

You can see that Dedmon replacing Gasol in the starting lineup improves them from a 7.3 net to an 8.4 net. But check out what happens when Gasol and Patty come in for Dedmon and Parker. +23 net. Absolutely killing teams.

I was just responding to the tired 'Paddy needs Manu' line that the Porker crew loves to throw out. Statistically, it's not true.

Pau plays significantly more minutes than Deadmon anyway. No need to mess with who starts at C, just keep it the way it is. , if you insist on starting the Pork why not just handle the PG position the same way? Start Rique, let Paddy close and play 30-33 mpg.

[rastaspur]

Not really. The Helmet crew's plan would force Parker to come off the bench with Manu, where they have a 5.6 net rating compared to the 12.6 net rating Mills and Manu have.

Their plan is only viable if you can 37-38 mins out of Patty. Good luck with that.

He can token start. Play him the first five minutes. Stagger he and ginobili a bit and limit that pairing to under ten minutes a game. Tweek the rotations with green and manu a bit as well and your conern should be solved.

Limit parker to no more than 20 minutes. Bump manu and patty up. Limit green a little. That should work

[midnightpulp]

I was just responding to the tired 'Paddy needs Manu' line that the Porker crew loves to throw out. Statistically, it's not true.

Pau plays significantly more minutes than Deadmon anyway. No need to mess with who starts at C, just keep it the way it is. , if you insist on starting the Pork why not just handle the PG position the same way? Start Rique, let Paddy close and play 30-33 mpg.

The writer of that article cherry picked. What brings down the Patty/Manu rating is the -1.7 net rating they have when Gasol is in the lineup with them alongside LMA and Kawhi. When Dedmon is switched out for Gasol, the net rating jumps to 14.3.

Gasol/Manu pairing is only at a +4.6 net, in the bottom 3rd of all pairings. So it's more about Manu not really working with Gasol than it is Mills not working as well with Manu as we thought.

Explore the 5 man lineups. You'll see that lineups which feature Manu and Gasol seem to underperform.

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advance...sort=MIN&dir=1

[rastaspur]

The writer of that article cherry picked. What brings down the Patty/Manu rating is the -1.7 net rating they have when Gasol is in the lineup with them alongside LMA and Kawhi. When Dedmon is switched out for Gasol, the net rating jumps to 14.3.

Gasol/Manu pairing is only at a +4.6 net, in the bottom 3rd of all pairings. So it's more about Manu not really working with Gasol than it is Mills not working as well with Manu as we thought.

Explore the 5 man lineups. You'll see that lineups which feature Manu and Gasol seem to underperform.

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advance...sort=MIN&dir=1

Gonna check it out. Thanks for link.

[midnightpulp]

Gonna check it out. Thanks for link.

To make it simple, no 5 man lineup with over 20 minutes together that has both Gasol and Manu has a net rating of over 6.0.

[rastaspur]

To make it simple, no 5 man lineup with over 20 minutes together that has both Gasol and Manu has a net rating of over 6.0.

Ouch.

[FkLA]

The writer of that article cherry picked. What brings down the Patty/Manu rating is the -1.7 net rating they have when Gasol is in the lineup with them alongside LMA and Kawhi. When Dedmon is switched out for Gasol, the net rating jumps to 14.3.

Gasol/Manu pairing is only at a +4.6 net, in the bottom 3rd of all pairings. So it's more about Manu not really working with Gasol than it is Mills not working as well with Manu as we thought.

Explore the 5 man lineups. You'll see that lineups which feature Manu and Gasol seem to underperform.

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advance...sort=MIN&dir=1

Trying to credit Patty for the run Pau and Manu sparked

Damn just give it a rest, brah. Nobody is saying Paddy is some world beater, or that he'd be anywhere near the player prime Enrique was. But Rique is so ing bad that it's hard to see the team ringing with him getting 25-30 MPG. They most likely wouldn't ring with Paddy getting 30-33 MPG either but it's worth finding out instead of trotting out Enrique and letting him lead us to the slaughter house again.

[RD2191]

OP consistently with the bads.

[dabom]

Damn just give it a rest, brah. Nobody is saying Paddy is some world beater, or that he'd be anywhere near the player prime Enrique was. But Rique is so ing bad that it's hard to see the team ringing with him getting 25-30 MPG. They most likely wouldn't ring with Paddy getting 30-33 MPG either but it's worth finding out instead of trotting out Enrique and letting him lead us to the slaughter house again.

Dayyymmmeeee.

[FkLA]

To make it simple, no 5 man lineup with over 20 minutes together that has both Gasol and Manu has a net rating of over 6.0.

So, should we move Pau back to the SL to minimize that pairing? You seemed opposed a few posts earlier. Do we move Manu into the SL alongside Paddy and keep Pau on the bench? You were also opposed to that.

I don't get your insistence. You're working so hard and going around in circles to find reasons why we should start a TOSB who has shown he will let us down three years in a row.

[midnightpulp]

Damn just give it a rest, brah. Nobody is saying Paddy is some world beater, or that he'd be anywhere near the player prime Enrique was. But Rique is so ing bad that it's hard to see the team ringing with him getting 25-30 MPG. They most likely wouldn't ring with Paddy getting 30-33 MPG either but it's worth finding out instead of trotting out Enrique and letting him lead us to the slaughter house again.

Here's my logic (providing all teams are healthy):

Patty starting, getting major minutes: 0% chance to ring.

Tony starting: 1% chance to ring if (big IF, like 1% chance if) he manages to find a gear for a playoff series against the Warriors.

And give what a rest? Parker haters don't think things through. You see Patty coming in, sparking a run, and think it's automatically transferable to him starting or playing more minutes. When and how Patty comes in is carefully designed, giving him and that lineup the best chances to spark said run.

And I don't want Parker getting 25-30 min unless he really shows something. I'm okay with 20-22 minutes for him, 22ish minutes for Patty, with Manu maybe sharing time at point. Patty can't play 30-35 playoff minutes against the Westbrooks, Currys, Lillards, Pauls.

[rastaspur]

Here's my logic (providing all teams are healthy):

Patty starting, getting major minutes: 0% chance to ring.

Tony starting: 1% chance to ring if (big IF, like 1% chance if) he manages to find a gear for a playoff series against the Warriors.

And give what a rest? Parker haters don't think things through. You see Patty coming in, sparking a run, and think it's automatically transferable to him starting or playing more minutes. When and how Patty comes in is carefully designed, giving him and that lineup the best chances to spark said run.

And I don't want Parker getting 25-30 min unless he really shows something. I'm okay with 20-22 minutes for him, 22ish minutes for Patty, with Manu maybe sharing time at point. Patty can't play 30-35 playoff minutes against the Westbrooks, Currys, Lillards, Pauls.

Tony starting and playing over 20 minutes a game = negative ten percent chance. Imo

The stats you quote just further cement a zero percent chance with the current selection of guards. It is what it is.

It is what it is and it aint what it aint. I wish they could win but I know they cant.

[midnightpulp]

So, should we move Pau back to the SL to minimize that pairing? You seemed opposed a few posts earlier. Do we move Manu into the SL alongside Paddy and keep Pau on the bench? You were also opposed to that.

I don't get your insistence. You're working so hard and going around in circles to find reasons why we should start a TOSB who has shown he will let us down three years in a row.

Do you know what I wanted? Murray developed, so that if Parker needed to be benched (like benched in him getting no playing time), we preserve the Patty + bench line change. All your silly plan does is move that TOSB to the bench where he'll kill one of the most effective weapons the Spurs have.

Pop has already minimized the pairing. The killer +23 lineup has the 4th most minutes together on the team.

And Patty didn't let us down last year? He was the worst player in the OKC series by far. Parker actually played up to par.

Patty hasn't proven aside from the Clippers series that one time in the 4th quarter and nailing a few threes in game 5 in the 2014 Finals. Speedy Claxton also had nice playoff games.

[FkLA]

Here's my logic (providing all teams are healthy):

Patty starting, getting major minutes: 0% chance to ring.

Tony starting: 1% chance to ring if (big IF, like 1% chance if) he manages to find a gear for a playoff series against the Warriors.

And give what a rest? Parker haters don't think things through. You see Patty coming in, sparking a run, and think it's automatically transferable to him starting or playing more minutes. When and how Patty comes in is carefully designed, giving him and that lineup the best chances to spark said run.

And I don't want Parker getting 25-30 min unless he really shows something. I'm okay with 20-22 minutes for him, 22ish minutes for Patty, with Manu maybe sharing time at point. Patty can't play 30-35 playoff minutes against the Westbrooks, Currys, Lillards, Pauls.

You're just assuming with Paddy though. Let's find out. If they flame out with Paddy, the end result would be the same as if we trotted out Rique anyways.

And yeah, he can't stay with those PGs but he can stay with Roberson, Mbah a Moute, and whoever the Portland SF is. Just like Enrique does. GS, well those cheat code using gots.

[midnightpulp]

You're just assuming with Paddy though. Let's find out. If they flame out with Paddy, the end result would be the same as if we trotted out Rique anyways.

And yeah, he can't stay with those PGs but he can stay with Roberson, Mbah a Moute, and whoever the Portland SF is. Just like Enrique does. GS, well those cheat code using gots.

Not really. We rolled with him last year against OKC. He got to close games and play 15 minutes per, and averaged a big 4 points on .231 from downtown. And the reason for his minutes reduction was because of his abysmal game 2 (got 21 minutes, went 2-9, including a missed wide open gamewinner).

[FkLA]

Do you know what I wanted? Murray developed, so that if Parker needed to be benched (like benched in him getting no playing time), we preserve the Patty + bench line change. All your silly plan does is move that TOSB to the bench where he'll kill one of the most effective weapons the Spurs have.

Pop has already minimized the pairing. The killer +23 lineup has the 4th most minutes together on the team.

And Patty didn't let us down last year? He was the worst player in the OKC series by far. Parker actually played up to par.

Patty hasn't proven aside from the Clippers series that one time in the 4th quarter and nailing a few threes in game 5 in the 2014 Finals. Speedy Claxton also had nice playoff games.

Meh, rotations shorten in the playoffs and starters play bigger minutes. That big bench advantage the Spurs have will diminish once they face tougher opposition. Give him the Dejuan Blair treatment and let him start all regular season if you want to keep that bench advantage, but in the playoffs when assholes get tight I want Paddy out there. He's not a proven commodity by any means but TOSB Enrique is, and not in a good way. That alone is reason enough to give Paddy a shot at big minutes.

[midnightpulp]

Meh, rotations shorten in the playoffs and starters play bigger minutes. That big bench advantage the Spurs have will diminish once they face tougher opposition. Give him the Dejuan Blair treatment and let him start all regular season if you want to keep that bench advantage, but in the playoffs when assholes get tight I want Paddy out there. He's not a proven commodity by any means but TOSB Enrique is, and not in a good way. That alone is reason enough to give Paddy a shot at big minutes.

A deep bench is our only shot. We're not top-loaded enough to go with a short rotation against the Warriors.

They got 3 guys who are all a threat for 30-40 points. We have one and a half (if LMA also finds a gear).

[FkLA]

Not really. We rolled with him last year against OKC. He got to close games and play 15 minutes per, and averaged a big 4 points on .231 from downtown. And the reason for his minutes reduction was because of his abysmal game 2 (got 21 minutes, went 2-9, including a missed wide open gamewinner).

Nah, I'm talking about really rolling with him. As in you can play as bad as '15 Enrique did and we are still going with you. Still running plays to get you looks.

[gambit1990]

Damn just give it a rest, brah. Nobody is saying Paddy is some world beater, or that he'd be anywhere near the player prime Enrique was. But Rique is so ing bad that it's hard to see the team ringing with him getting 25-30 MPG. They most likely wouldn't ring with Paddy getting 30-33 MPG either but it's worth finding out instead of trotting out Enrique and letting him lead us to the slaughter house again.

OP consistently with the bads.

Tony starting and playing over 20 minutes a game = negative ten percent chance. Imo

You're just assuming with Paddy though. Let's find out. If they flame out with Paddy, the end result would be the same as if we trotted out Rique anyways.

And yeah, he can't stay with those PGs but he can stay with Roberson, Mbah a Moute, and whoever the Portland SF is. Just like Enrique does.

one thing mid and tony have in common is that they should both retire.

[UZER]

Damn just give it a rest, brah. Nobody is saying Paddy is some world beater, or that he'd be anywhere near the player prime Enrique was. But Rique is so ing bad that it's hard to see the team ringing with him getting 25-30 MPG. They most likely wouldn't ring with Paddy getting 30-33 MPG either but it's worth finding out instead of trotting out Enrique and letting him lead us to the slaughter house again.

Yup. That's the mentality that has Murray eliminated from playoff contributions before the season even starts, regardless of what he shows in the regular season.

[TD 21]

Do you know what I wanted? Murray developed, so that if Parker needed to be benched (like benched in him getting no playing time), we preserve the Patty + bench line change. All your silly plan does is move that TOSB to the bench where he'll kill one of the most effective weapons the Spurs have.

Some (or one, with numerous "alts") of these idiots are just trolling, but some clearly don't understand this.

It's not about the better one starting or picking one over the other, it's about them needing to do it the way they do it, so that the team has it's best chance to function well over 48 minutes.

How a fan base that's gotten to witness, at the very least the best sixth man of his generation, doesn't comprehend this, is beyond me.

[hater]

Well go niwhere without Head of Da Snake imo

[DAF86]

At this point, I don't see how starting Murray (when he's back) would make the team worse than having Tony out there. On offense he couldn't possible be much worst than Tony's 0/4 ppg while making life much more difficult for everyone else with his lack of ability to keep a defense honest, and on defense it would be lights out. Murray would give us the chance to switch 1 through 3 without much implications, against most teams.