Kawhi's offensive game is "antiquated."

[apalisoc_9]

No. This team needs more than just a decent penetrating PG. We need an all-star level penetrating PG, who is a threat for 30 points any given night, which Kawhi fanboys would probably complain about since this hypothetical guard would be taking "touches" away.

Every top team, from GS to Boston to Houston to Cleveland (I don't care we beat them by 30. Regular season) has both elite penetration and 3 point volume shooting. We have neither, and Kawhi can't provide either. Yeah, he's a good 3 point shooter, but he takes good spot up 3s. All those teams have players that shoot the 3 off the dribble at a relatively high percentage.

I have slim, slim hope that the old adage of size kills in the post-season will come through for us, and I want it to happen because I hate the modern brand of basketball, but the writing seems to be on the wall.

The Spurs are 61+ team with no Dual Threat players except for Leonard. This isn't a a Strategic or a School of thought mistake by the Spurs, this is just the warriors being too damn good. They've dominated the Cavs and Houston this year.

It's not a bad system. They're not going to shy away from the currently constructed team because of Golden State. The spurs have never built their organization around the idea of countering specific ball clubs. It has always been about developing the best team they can possibly develop.

So this school of thought that spurs are making a strategic mistake on offense is bunkers. They're doing the right things. The Warriors just happen to be the best team in NBA history.

The spurs as far as back as 2012 had a decent mix of bigs so dont think these frontcourt heavy team is specificly built to play against the warriros.

[RD2191]

People in here acting like supposed top 10 player of all time LeBrick James didn't have to team up with two stars in their primes to win 2 rings(should've been 1)

[Arcadian]

Remember when people thought Kawhi could never be a good shooter because his hands were too big?

One does not simply tell Kawhi what he can't do!

[HarlemHeat37]

This team will never win another championship without a star PG, but the issue is deeper than just roster-building, tbh..

There's the human element that is in play with the Spurs..Parker is a Spurs' legend and Pop isn't going to bench him, as we have seen..this team isn't going anywhere until his contract is off the books, which everybody should have already accepted heading into the season

They did the best job they could do to compete while keeping TP in the mix and not disrespecting him..

[DMC]

Russ is a stat-padder on a non-contender, IMO. And I love Russ' motor, but I wouldn't put him at top 3 anything, despite the numbers. Kawhi is now discovering double teams, it's going to be a learning process for him, on how to affect the game when that happens. Happened to every other great player that draws them.

But you said "legitimately in the MVP conversation". So is Russ, he'll likely win it. So if it's that MVP talk we're discussing, we have to consider that neither Harden nor Russ are even good defenders, much less Kawhi level defenders. I still think KL is the best defender in the league, and that means he doesn't have to be as good on offense as stat padder and Harden to be in the talks. Take KL down to Harden's level defensively and he's not even in the top 10 in the NBA.

[FkLA]

That game was head to head and though Kawhi was the focal point of SA's offense, Klay wasn't the focal point of GS's offense.

So we ignore all the other SA/GS games just bc it suits your argument, fat boy?

Also way to point out why comparing them is a joke, moron. Its hilarious that you continue to act like Kawhi being a first option somehow strengthens your argument. Lmk when Klaynus makes the jump to being a first option.

[RD2191]

Another league MVP and future hall of famer just joined a record game winning team to win a ring. Let's chill on the Kawhi hate TBH.

[ElNono]

But you said "legitimately in the MVP conversation". So is Russ, he'll likely win it. So if it's that MVP talk we're discussing, we have to consider that neither Harden nor Russ are even good defenders, much less Kawhi level defenders. I still think KL is the best defender in the league, and that means he doesn't have to be as good on offense as stat padder and Harden to be in the talks. Take KL down to Harden's level defensively and he's not even in the top 10 in the NBA.

Fair enough, but I don't know about that last part. A guy that's averaging 26ppg likely is a top 10 guy in the NBA today.

[DMC]

This team will never win another championship without a star PG, but the issue is deeper than just roster-building, tbh..

There's the human element that is in play with the Spurs..Parker is a Spurs' legend and Pop isn't going to bench him, as we have seen..this team isn't going anywhere until his contract is off the books, which everybody should have already accepted heading into the season

They did the best job they could do to compete while keeping TP in the mix and not disrespecting him..

And the super team in GS is >> than the super team in Miami or Cleveland, and the Spurs would have to catch lightning in a bottle to beat Houston, much less the Warriors to even get to the Finals. If they could though, I like their chances against the Cavs.

[Chinook]

Below is every Kawhi-related play in the PbP from ESPN during GS' 62-38 run. I've even kept the four points Kawhi scored to cauterize the wound:

Quarter	TIME	PLAY	SCORE
1	2:43	Kawhi Leonard makes 2-foot layup (Manu Ginobili assists)	10 - 31
1	2:43	JaVale McGee shooting foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	10 - 31
1	2:43	Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 1 of 1	10 - 31
1	1:47	Kawhi Leonard defensive rebound	13 - 31
1	1:38	Kawhi Leonard misses	13 - 31
1	0:08	Kawhi Leonard misses 26-foot three point pullup jump shot	15 - 33
2	7:24	Kawhi Leonard enters the game for Kyle Anderson	29 - 41
2	7:11	Kawhi Leonard misses 26-foot three point jumper	29 - 41
2	6:46	Kawhi Leonard makes 17-foot two point shot	29 - 43
2	5:00	Kawhi Leonard traveling	38 - 45
2	3:56	Kawhi Leonard offensive rebound	43 - 45
2	2:10	LaMarcus Aldridge makes 16-foot jumper (Kawhi Leonard assists)	45 - 52
2	1:28	Kawhi Leonard misses 8-foot jumper	47 - 52
2	0:09	Kawhi Leonard lost ball turnover (Andre Iguodala steals)	54 - 57
2	0:01	Kawhi Leonard defensive rebound	54 - 57
3	11:23	Kawhi Leonard bad pass (Draymond Green steals)	54 - 57
3	10:21	Zaza Pachulia personal foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	59 - 57
3	10:11	Kawhi Leonard misses 26-foot three point jumper	59 - 57
3	9:37	Kawhi Leonard misses 25-foot three point jumper	59 - 57
3	8:56	Kawhi Leonard misses 5-foot jumper	62 - 57
3	7:13	Matt Barnes personal foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	67 - 59
3	6:09	Matt Barnes shooting foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	67 - 61
3	6:09	Kawhi Leonard makes free throw 1 of 2	67 - 62
3	6:09	Kawhi Leonard makes free throw 2 of 2	67 - 63
3	4:52	Kawhi Leonard offensive rebound	72 - 65
3	4:50	Kawhi Leonard makes 6-foot two point shot	72 - 67
3	4:20	Kawhi Leonard makes 21-foot two point shot	72 - 69
3	3:47	Kawhi Leonard bad pass (Andre Iguodala steals)	72 - 69

There's just a lot of bad in there, a lot of horrible. There's some good, but still just horrible in general

[DMC]

Fair enough, but I don't know about that last part. A guy that's averaging 26ppg likely is a top 10 guy in the NBA today.

I don't consider Isaiah Thomas to be in the top 10. He wouldn't be in mine. I'd take the Greek Freak over him any day. I'd take Chris Paul over him in fact.

[ElNono]

I mentioned it at halftime, if he couldn't hit his shots, he needed to get to the line... Curry did...

[RD2191]

Below is every Kawhi-related play in the PbP from ESPN during GS' 62-38 run. I've even kept the four points Kawhi scored to cauterize the wound:

Quarter	TIME	PLAY	SCORE
1	2:43	Kawhi Leonard makes 2-foot layup (Manu Ginobili assists)	10 - 31
1	2:43	JaVale McGee shooting foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	10 - 31
1	2:43	Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 1 of 1	10 - 31
1	1:47	Kawhi Leonard defensive rebound	13 - 31
1	1:38	Kawhi Leonard misses	13 - 31
1	0:08	Kawhi Leonard misses 26-foot three point pullup jump shot	15 - 33
2	7:24	Kawhi Leonard enters the game for Kyle Anderson	29 - 41
2	7:11	Kawhi Leonard misses 26-foot three point jumper	29 - 41
2	6:46	Kawhi Leonard makes 17-foot two point shot	29 - 43
2	5:00	Kawhi Leonard traveling	38 - 45
2	3:56	Kawhi Leonard offensive rebound	43 - 45
2	2:10	LaMarcus Aldridge makes 16-foot jumper (Kawhi Leonard assists)	45 - 52
2	1:28	Kawhi Leonard misses 8-foot jumper	47 - 52
2	0:09	Kawhi Leonard lost ball turnover (Andre Iguodala steals)	54 - 57
2	0:01	Kawhi Leonard defensive rebound	54 - 57
3	11:23	Kawhi Leonard bad pass (Draymond Green steals)	54 - 57
3	10:21	Zaza Pachulia personal foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	59 - 57
3	10:11	Kawhi Leonard misses 26-foot three point jumper	59 - 57
3	9:37	Kawhi Leonard misses 25-foot three point jumper	59 - 57
3	8:56	Kawhi Leonard misses 5-foot jumper	62 - 57
3	7:13	Matt Barnes personal foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	67 - 59
3	6:09	Matt Barnes shooting foul (Kawhi Leonard draws the foul)	67 - 61
3	6:09	Kawhi Leonard makes free throw 1 of 2	67 - 62
3	6:09	Kawhi Leonard makes free throw 2 of 2	67 - 63
3	4:52	Kawhi Leonard offensive rebound	72 - 65
3	4:50	Kawhi Leonard makes 6-foot two point shot	72 - 67
3	4:20	Kawhi Leonard makes 21-foot two point shot	72 - 69
3	3:47	Kawhi Leonard bad pass (Andre Iguodala steals)	72 - 69

There's just a lot of bad in there, a lot of horrible. There's some good, but still just horrible in general

Damn son, you really are salty. Like I said, call Pop and let him know. I'm surprised you aren't coaching in the NBA yet. TBH

[midnightpulp]

The Spurs are 61+ team with no Dual Threat players except for Leonard. This isn't a a Strategic or a School of thought mistake by the Spurs, this is just the warriors being too damn good. They've dominated the Cavs and Houston this year.

It's not a bad system. They're not going to shy away from the currently constructed team because of Golden State. The spurs have never built their organization around the idea of countering specific ball clubs. It has always been about developing the best team they can possibly develop.

So this school of thought that spurs are making a strategic mistake on offense is bunkers. They're doing the right things. The Warriors just happen to be the best team in NBA history.

The spurs as far as back as 2012 had a decent mix of bigs so dont think these frontcourt heavy team is specificly built to play against the warriros.

The game has changed massively since 2012. The le winning Miami Heat took only 16 3PA per game, which would be an inconceivable amount of attempts for a 2017 le contender. And the 2012 Spurs also had good penetration since Parker and Manu weren't turning to dust yet.

Forget about the Warriors, the 67 win Spurs couldn't even get out of the 2nd round last season. I don't care what this team does in the regular season. It's a flawed team build vis a vis what works in the NBA now. You can't beat math. 3 pointer is too mathematically effective.

[ElNono]

I don't consider Isaiah Thomas to be in the top 10. He wouldn't be in mine. I'd take the Greek Freak over him any day. I'd take Chris Paul over him in fact.

Well, if we all could choose, we all probably had a different top 10, tbh... What's Isaiah is doing is legit though, IMO. Boston is a well coached team.

[John Petrucci]

These kind of losses aren't on Pop. Kawhi is supposed to be a top 3-5 player in league. Show up.

[DMC]

Its called common sense. Its obvious he's talking about playmaking. Klaynus isn't better at it than Kawhi, moronic fat boy.

He didn't say anything about dishing. You can infer anything that blows your skirt up, Julio.

[Chinook]

Damn son, you really are salty. Like I said, call Pop and let him know. I'm surprised you aren't coaching in the NBA yet. TBH

You gonna come back here and mop up this butt-hurt before you go? This is a thread about Kawhi/the Spurs offense as it relates to Kawhi putting the team at risk. You want to pretend this never happened, there are multiple threads to go to.

[DMC]

Well, if we all could choose, we all probably had a different top 10, tbh... What's Isaiah is doing is legit though, IMO. Boston is a well coached team.

It is legit, but it's a situational thing. It doesn't mean he's better than Chris Paul or Lillard or Irving.

[Atl Spur]

wow chinook...... would you rather he not shoot? what would be most ideal solution for you?

[RD2191]

We have the 2nd best record in the league, the only team ahead of us is a team that won a record amount of games last season and added an MVP in the off-season. But yeah, Kawhi ball is the problem.

[midnightpulp]

This team will never win another championship without a star PG, but the issue is deeper than just roster-building, tbh..

There's the human element that is in play with the Spurs..Parker is a Spurs' legend and Pop isn't going to bench him, as we have seen..this team isn't going anywhere until his contract is off the books, which everybody should have already accepted heading into the season

They did the best job they could do to compete while keeping TP in the mix and not disrespecting him..

Even if Parker is benched, Mills, Murray, Forbes don't provide any solutions (maybe Murray in the future). If Kawhi played like Harden but combined with his defense, this team would be a much bigger le threat. You're an analytics guy and you should know that midrange/midpost are "bad" shots.

Anyone have the tweet showing the PPS of post-play? It has one of the lowest values.

[DMC]

We have the 2nd best record in the league, the only team ahead of us is a team that won a record amount of games last season and added an MVP in the off-season. But yeah, Kawhi ball is the problem.

Photograph that 2nd best record in the league banner and post it here when it arrives.

[ElNono]

It is legit, but it's a situational thing. It doesn't mean he's better than Chris Paul or Lillard or Irving.

I would take him over Lillard... heck, even Paul if we're building something now...

[Chinook]

wow chinook...... would you rather he not shoot? what would be most ideal solution for you?

Did you watch the game? If you did, I'd rather him not do what he did during that GS run. At no point during that time was there any reason to go "Kawhi, go get us a bucket" outside of the end-of-quarter plays.