Kings: Roger Federer wins 8th Wimbledon, 19th Grand Slam le

[DAF86]

Yes, because we, after a century of tennis, and decades of the sport reaching maturity, suddenly have three or four of the top five players just magically appear as they all stumbled upon the mutant tennis dominance gene.

Bolt, Phelps, Serena Williams, Federer, Messi, Lebron. It's not uncommon to have GOATS in current sports. Humans are constantly evolving, it's just natural law.

[Clipper Nation]

Bolt, Phelps, Serena Williams, Federer, Messi, Lebron. It's not uncommon to have GOATS in current sports. Humans are constantly evolving, it's just natural law.

[Ginobilly]

Bolt, Phelps, Serena Williams, Federer, Messi, Lebron. It's not uncommon to have GOATS in current sports. Humans are constantly evolving, it's just natural law.

Humans aint evolving its just better sports medical care and better peds that are extending these guys primes.

[DAF86]

Humans aint evolving its just better sports medical care and better peds that are extending these guys primes.

Ok, and who comes up with those improvements and PEDS, animals?

[midnightpulp]

Or maybe, just maybe, the declining age has been delayed, and since the two greatest players of all-time are the ones taking advantage of that fact, it makes perfect sense that they are still the ones dominating.

Scientific impossibility, unfortunately (no sports medicine advancement can stay off reaction time decline as a person ages, even if that person has the body of a 20 year old). Across all sports, 27-29 is the peak prime period in an athlete's career, when knowledge and athleticism come together most effectively. We should see the next tennis GOAT(S) challenging the old guard right now. Where is he/are they? You might say, "Look at the NBA. Lebron is 34 with a -ton of miles and still easily the best player in the league." The reason the NBA has such ty parity and only 2 or 3 superstar players (like real superstars, players that can anchor a franchise for a decade) is because the worldwide basketball talent pool is small.

[DAF86]

Scientific impossibility, unfortunately (no sports medicine advancement can stay off reaction time decline as a person ages, even if that person has the body of a 20 year old). Across all sports, 27-29 is the peak prime period in an athlete's career, when knowledge and athleticism come together most effectively. We should see the next tennis GOAT(S) challenging the old guard right now. Where is he/are they? You might say, "Look at the NBA. Lebron is 34 with a -ton of miles and still easily the best player in the league." The reason the NBA has such ty parity and only 2 or 3 superstar players (like real superstars, players that can anchor a franchise for a decade) is because the worldwide basketball talent pool is small.

lol son. It's not only Tennis and Basketball, in pretty much every sport, old players are dominating. In soccer, by far the two best player on Earth are over 30, something that had never happened before. Is the talent pool small in soccer? The NFL best player is 40 years old.

But sure, the decling age hasn't been delayed. I'm sure you have some nice graphics to prove that.

[midnightpulp]

Bolt, Phelps, Serena Williams, Federer, Messi, Lebron. It's not uncommon to have GOATS in current sports. Humans are constantly evolving, it's just natural law.

Humans (or any lifeform) don't evolve over decades. If you want to say training methods, nutritional knowledge, and sports science have evolved, then yes. But true evolution is a painstakingly slow process that takes hundreds of thousands to millions of years.

https://phys.org/news/2011-08-fast-e...ion-years.html

[midnightpulp]

lol son. It's not only Tennis and Basketball, in pretty much every sport, old players are dominating. In soccer, by far the two best player on Earth are over 30, something that had never happened before. Is the talent pool small in soccer? The NFL best player is 40 years old.

But sure, the decling age hasn't been delayed. I'm sure you have some nice graphics to prove that.

Haven't I showed you stats to use in your Messi vs. Ronaldo debate just how overrated Ronaldo is? You said yourself, the Kirby of soccer where his flash and "charisma" distract from his actual in game impact. Isn't that Egyptian guy going to win player of the year? Looking it up: 26 years old. And Messi is a tick over 30. I just said the peak of an athlete's career is around 27-29. NFL? Shallow talent pool. So it looks like the actual 2 best players in the world. Messi and the Egyptian are within the range.

[DAF86]

Haven't I showed you stats to use in your Messi vs. Ronaldo debate just how overrated Ronaldo is? You said yourself, the Kirby of soccer where his flash and "charisma" distract from his actual in game impact. Isn't that Egyptian guy going to win player of the year? Looking it up: 26 years old. And Messi is a tick over 30. I just said the peak of an athlete's career is around 27-29. NFL? Shallow talent pool. So it looks like the actual 2 best players in the world. Messi and the Egyptian are within the range.

lol son, no. It's either Messi or Sidenaldo. Like it has been for the past 10 years. I'm sure such dominance is because of the small talent pool soccer has.

[midnightpulp]

lol son, no. It's either Messi or Sidenaldo. Like it has been for the past 10 years. I'm sure such dominance is because of the small talent pool soccer has.

Stats to back that up? "Uh, uh, soccer is, um, an eye test sport!" Then why are Messi's "advanced stats," (soccer advanced stats are still in their infancy) head and shoulders above naldo's?

Scroll down. Ronaldo's goals expected per shot are middle of the road, while Messi is the clear leader. Ronaldo seems to be a "chucker." And yes, I realize that missed soccer shots don't work like missed basketball shots, since a shot on goal in soccer seems to always create an advantage for the attacking team, whether through generating corners and/or rebounds, but isn't the stigma around Ronaldo is that he needs elite passers around him to serve him his "tap ins" on a plate, while Messi actually "creates?"

Some newer stats like space created show exactly that in finer detail than just assists and goals created:

Soccer is fundamentally a game of space and movement, so Bornn and Fernandez devised models using positional data that evaluate the occupation and generation of space by players. “We can see at every instant the location of each player and the ball, and from this deduce how players’ movements create space for themselves and others,” Bornn said. “We can also see whether they do that actively, by running into open spaces, or passively, by staying in high-value locations while the play shifts away.”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...is-impossible/

I don't see the evidence other than gifs of cute bicycle kicks.

[DAF86]

Stats to back that up? "Uh, uh, soccer is, um, an eye test sport!" Then why are Messi's "advanced stats," (soccer advanced stats are still in their infancy) head and shoulders above naldo's?

Scroll down. Ronaldo's goals expected per shot are middle of the road, while Messi is the clear leader. Ronaldo seems to be a "chucker." And yes, I realize that missed soccer shots don't work like missed basketball shots, since a shot on goal in soccer seems to always create an advantage for the attacking team, whether through generating corners and/or rebounds, but isn't the stigma around Ronaldo is that he needs elite passers around him to serve him his "tap ins" on a plate, while Messi actually "creates?" (some newer stats like space created show exactly that in finer detail than just assists and goals created): "Soccer is fundamentally a game of space and movement, so Bornn and Fernandez devised models using positional data that evaluate the occupation and generation of space by players. “We can see at every instant the location of each player and the ball, and from this deduce how players’ movements create space for themselves and others,” Bornn said. “We can also see whether they do that actively, by running into open spaces, or passively, by staying in high-value locations while the play shifts away.”)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...is-impossible/

I don't see the evidence other than gifs of cute bicycle kicks.

Top scorer and Champion of CL.

[midnightpulp]

Top scorer and Champion of CL.

Kobe was the top scorer and Champion of the NBA many times. Soccer is an 11 vs. 11 team sport, so I don't see how you can appeal to the per game stats and "rings" argument here when so many factors can go into a making a player look better than he is. Scroll down more, and you'll see naldo as a middle of the pack player in unassisted goals.

[DAF86]

Kobe was the top scorer and Champion of the NBA many times. Soccer is an 11 vs. 11 team sport, so I don't see how you can appeal to the per game stats and "rings" argument here when so many factors can go into a making a player look better than he is. Scroll down more, and you'll see naldo as a middle of the pack player in unassisted goals.

He scored 33% more goals than the next top scorer. Look, I'm far from a Sidenaldo fan, but he is clearly the second best player in the World.

[midnightpulp]

He scored 33% more goals than the next top scorer. Look, I'm far from a Sidenaldo fan, but he is clearly the second best player in the World.

So scoring is the only thing that matters in soccer? Midfielders and defenders can't have more in game impact than strikers? Again, this would be like saying Kobe is clearly better than Duncan because he scored a certain percentage more points. This is exactly why soccer needs a metrics revolution, and its coming.

[DAF86]

So scoring is the only thing that matters in soccer? Midfielders and defenders can't have more in game impact than strikers? Again, this would be like saying Kobe is clearly better than Duncan because he scored a certain percentage more points. This is exactly why soccer needs a metrics revolution, and its coming.

In soccer, smart positioning and timely runs to get in positions to score is a very important ability that not everybody possess.

[midnightpulp]

In soccer, smart positioning and timely runs to get in positions to score is a very important ability that not everybody possess.

But you still need midfielders and other players to deliver accurate crosses, through passes and the like to give the striker making that timely run a good shot on goal. Currently, it seems soccer underrates the midfielders and defensemen. All the focus/hype is on the goal scorers. Unless soccer is a striker centric sport above all else.

[DAF86]

But you still need midfielders and other players to deliver accurate crosses, through passes and the like to give the striker making that timely run a good shot on goal. Currently, it seems soccer underrates the midfielders and defensemen. All the focus/hype is on the goal scorers. Unless soccer is a striker centric sport above all else.

Just watch the damn games, tbh. If you didn't see this Portugal-Spain game, try to catch it on replay and tell me if Sidenaldo isn't among the best.

[midnightpulp]

Just watch the damn games, tbh. If you didn't see this Portugal-Spain game, try to catch it on replay and tell me if Sidenaldo isn't among the best.

You know I don't watch this sport much. Looking at the highlights now. His goals were: A in' penalty (of course. Isn't he called Penaldo as well?), a weak shot flubbed by the goalie (and he did nothing to create the play, really. The long pass and first touch of the player who flipped the ball to him are what generated the play). 3rd goal. Free kick. Lol.

But you're still not answering the question. How are other players "valued" relative to strikers? That's the crux of my point here. Soccer seems to only value goals and maybe assists in determining player value. I'd be willing to bet that if soccer had a comprehensive advanced stats methodology, we'd see midfielders and defenders have more game impact than the players perceived as the best (i.e. Ronaldo). Or you tell me. Is striker simply the most important position?

[ambchang]

If you weren't a casual tennis fan, you would know that many players go long periods of time without coaches, and many times those moments equal the best of their careers. Like I said, Federer most dominant version came when he didn't have a coach and he did warm ups with his wife.

Sure. After they’ve been shown the way. You think anyone can just afford those to unlock their potential? Why would lesser players who can’t afford to pay hundred of thousands of dollars to have some guy keep them company?

Bolt, Phelps, Serena Williams, Federer, Messi, Lebron. It's not uncommon to have GOATS in current sports. Humans are constantly evolving, it's just natural law.

It’s uncommon to have the top 2 and another 2 top tens though.