Dennis Rodman: “Popovich, he hated me”

[SpursforSix]

there is no way in you watched "all of them" and just consider Rodman as "one of the guys". IMpossible. He was a Ray Lewis/Lawrence Taylor/Deion Sanders special type of defensive player. You can't just throw Dale Davis on that Bulls team and they win 72 games and 3 straight. Karl Malone yes becasue he's an all time great. Add in that Rodman and Pippen allowed Jordan to not have to play any defense whatsover during the Bulls 2nd 3peat. The media forgets this. As Jordan was still getting all defensive honors in the league, he played little to no defense from 95-98. Guarding 4th options during their 3 finals appearances. Plus Jordan was aging, but it was disguised properly by hiding him on defense so he could run wild on offense. Don't give me this about Jordan in 97 and 98 when he's guarding Jeff Hornacek in the finals.

I did watch all of them. Sure, Rodman did great things and contributed to wins but I think they still win those 3 without him.

[daslicer]

Fair points.

To me, their different approach to coaching overall is also why one went back-to-back multiple times, and one never repeated once in 20 years.

To repeat you have to have stacked teams. The 80's pistons had great depth, the 90's bulls had two superstars in Mike and Scottie, Rockets had Hakeem and wouldn't have repeated without trading for Drexler, Lakers had Kobe-Shaq, and then Kobe-Gasol and great depth with Artest,Bynum,Odom, the Heat had Lebron,Wade,Bosh. I felt when Tony and Manu hit their primes that they were all-star players but were not superstars.

Despite not being as stacked as those other teams the Spurs were some botched up calls away from winning back to back in '04 and '06. I don't have respect for those Laker teams that won back to back under Phil because they won a few les off of bs refereeing. In '00 Lakers won that infamous rigged reffed game 7 against the Blazers in which they should have a lost if it wasn't for biased reffing. The same could be said in '02 against the Kings in that awfully reffed game 6 that allowed the Lakers to stave off of elimination. Lakers also benefited greatly in '10 in game 7 against the Celtics when it came to bad refereeing. Take away the ref card and the Phil Jackson Lakers don't have any repeat championship. Phil benefited greatly from always having the refs in his pocket. It was huge part of his strategy to complain about the refs when his team lost playoff games and then suddenly get special treatment for the rest of the series. Pop never had that luxury. Spurs would have had a few more championships if they got special ref treatment as those Laker teams did.

[lefty]

they wouldn't have. Rodman was their Ray Lewis in that Seattle series. He was getting under players' skin bad to the point they couldn't even think properly with him on the floor. The bulls were not stacked like GS. They needed that defensive big in the middle for rebounding. Without grant and Rodman, they lost in 95 to Orlando. Don't give me that bull about JOrdan being out of shape. That's bull . Phil knew he needed rodman, that's why he didn't try to control him. Let him party all night as long as he showed up to practice and games. Phil didn't try to control him. When Rodman said, "i never had a conversation with Pippen and Jordan", I 100% believe him. My question to you is who would have filled in Rodman's spot and had them winning 3 straight? Jason Caffey?

Exactly.
Sure, Williams could rebound but Rodman could defend and get under key players' skin

[UZER]

To repeat you have to have stacked teams. The 80's pistons had great depth, the 90's bulls had two superstars in Mike and Scottie, Rockets had Hakeem and wouldn't have repeated without trading for Drexler, Lakers had Kobe-Shaq, and then Kobe-Gasol and great depth with Artest,Bynum,Odom, the Heat had Lebron,Wade,Bosh. I felt when Tony and Manu hit their primes that they were all-star players but were not superstars.

Despite not being as stacked as those other teams the Spurs were some botched up calls away from winning back to back in '04 and '06. I don't have respect for those Laker teams that won back to back under Phil because they won a few les off of bs refereeing. In '00 Lakers won that infamous rigged reffed game 7 against the Blazers in which they should have a lost if it wasn't for biased reffing. The same could be said in '02 against the Kings in that awfully reffed game 6 that allowed the Lakers to stave off of elimination. Lakers also benefited greatly in '10 in game 7 against the Celtics when it came to bad refereeing. Take away the ref card and the Phil Jackson Lakers don't have any repeat championship. Phil benefited greatly from always having the refs in his pocket. It was huge part of his strategy to complain about the refs when his team lost playoff games and then suddenly get special treatment for the rest of the series. Pop never had that luxury. Spurs would have had a few more championships if they got special ref treatment as those Laker teams did.

We've all seen Pop spend the regular season putting guys in the doghouse for weeks because of one missed rotation, playing them again for one minute, yanking them for another 3 weeks. He needlessly rests guys, especially the young ones. He spends 3/4s of the season playing ridiculous lineups that will never be effective in the playoffs. And most importantly, we've all seen him panic during a playoff series and play head scratching lineups that we all saw were garbage during the regular season.

I'm just saying, Phil never babied players physically. He didn't sit them out over and over for random games throughout the year. He never threw games just to prove a point. He played the lineups that we're going to win in the playoffs and rarely changed his starting lineups. Players understood their role. They weren't constantly guessing "am I playing tonight?" or constantly looking over their shoulders for the quick hook. If rookies were good enough, the played. It wasn't determined in Septemberr. Sorry dude, you won't be playing the playoffs. I'm mean, who does that?

What Phil did helped to galvanized the team on the court, and made them strong and durable and able to push through physically and mentally, like you have to do when grinding through another playoffs as the champs trying to defend your le.

Sure Phil was an ass, but then again, so is Pop. But one took games seriously, even regular season games in January, while the other is more concerned about new planets being discovered.

[daslicer]

We've all seen Pop spend the regular season putting guys in the doghouse for weeks because of one missed rotation, playing them again for one minute, yanking them for another 3 weeks. He needlessly rests guys, especially the young ones. He spends 3/4s of the season playing ridiculous lineups that will never be effective in the playoffs. And most importantly, we've all seen him panic during a playoff series and play head scratching lineups that we all saw were garbage during the regular season.

I'm just saying, Phil never babied players physically. He didn't sit them out over and over for random games throughout the year. He never threw games just to prove a point. He played the lineups that we're going to win in the playoffs and rarely changed his starting lineups. Players understood their role. They weren't constantly guessing "am I playing tonight?" or constantly looking over their shoulders for the quick hook. If rookies were good enough, the played. It wasn't determined in Septemberr. Sorry dude, you won't be playing the playoffs. I'm mean, who does that?

What Phil did helped to galvanized the team on the court, and made them strong and durable and able to push through physically and mentally, like you have to do when grinding through another playoffs as the champs trying to defend your le.

Sure Phil was an ass, but then again, so is Pop. But one took games seriously, even regular season games in January, while the other is more concerned about new planets being discovered.

I agree with you on this that Phil whenever he had the best team that they always won. For example Phil would not have played the horrible small ball line up that Pop did in '06 or bench Nazr for the rest of the playoffs but with that being said Phil always had the refs in his pocket. I just don't think Phil playing the ref card in SA works due to small market bias and Duncan not having the media presence Kobe,Shaq did. That was a huge reason like I mentioned in the previous post on why Phil was able to get repeats in LA. Phil also does not have the patience for developing young players like Pop did with Manu,Parker and later on Kawhi. That is why I can't see Phil succeeding in SA.

[therealtruth]

To repeat you have to have stacked teams. The 80's pistons had great depth, the 90's bulls had two superstars in Mike and Scottie, Rockets had Hakeem and wouldn't have repeated without trading for Drexler, Lakers had Kobe-Shaq, and then Kobe-Gasol and great depth with Artest,Bynum,Odom, the Heat had Lebron,Wade,Bosh. I felt when Tony and Manu hit their primes that they were all-star players but were not superstars.

Despite not being as stacked as those other teams the Spurs were some botched up calls away from winning back to back in '04 and '06. I don't have respect for those Laker teams that won back to back under Phil because they won a few les off of bs refereeing. In '00 Lakers won that infamous rigged reffed game 7 against the Blazers in which they should have a lost if it wasn't for biased reffing. The same could be said in '02 against the Kings in that awfully reffed game 6 that allowed the Lakers to stave off of elimination. Lakers also benefited greatly in '10 in game 7 against the Celtics when it came to bad refereeing. Take away the ref card and the Phil Jackson Lakers don't have any repeat championship. Phil benefited greatly from always having the refs in his pocket. It was huge part of his strategy to complain about the refs when his team lost playoff games and then suddenly get special treatment for the rest of the series. Pop never had that luxury. Spurs would have had a few more championships if they got special ref treatment as those Laker teams did.

It's funny people always say the Spurs were unlucky due to a foul or 0.4 from repeating in '06 or '04. But as you point out Phil's teams benefited from luck in their favor. The difference illustrates the difference between Pop and PJ. PJ would say that you have to create your own luck. That is put yourself in situations to benefit from luck. You do that by played the lineups that you're going to need to win in the playoffs. Making sure players understand their roles. Not panicking in the playoffs. Not taking games off. He put his players in the best positions to win. If his players didn't win they simply weren't good enough.

Pop's the exact opposite. Those are all things he does that don't necessarily allow for the team to benefit from luck. Pulling TD when you need a rebound. Not playing best lineups. They're control moves. They don't allow the players to decide the games. That's the frustration with Pop. There's times you feel the team was good enough to win it but his ego wouldn't allow it.

[daslicer]

It's funny people always say the Spurs were unlucky due to a foul or 0.4 from repeating in '06 or '04. But as you point out Phil's teams benefited from luck in their favor. The difference illustrates the difference between Pop and PJ. PJ would say that you have to create your own luck. That is put yourself in situations to benefit from luck. You do that by played the lineups that you're going to need to win in the playoffs. Making sure players understand their roles. Not panicking in the playoffs. Not taking games off. He put his players in the best positions to win. If his players didn't win they simply weren't good enough.

Pop's the exact opposite. Those are all things he does that don't necessarily allow for the team to benefit from luck. Pulling TD when you need a rebound. Not playing best lineups. They're control moves. They don't allow the players to decide the games. That's the frustration with Pop. There's times you feel the team was good enough to win it but his ego wouldn't allow it.

I agree with you on that Pop has made boneheaded moves that have hurt the spurs but at the same time like I said in my previous post Phil would not have had the ability to get the spurs to that point where Pop screwed up. Do you think Phil would have been able to develop Parker,Manu,Kawhi to become the players they became. Phil has never developed . He needs instant stars to win and that's why he wouldn't have succeeded in San Antonio. He also needed the refs to bail his ass out another thing he would not have had in SA. Phil is great if you have a team that is ready to win a le but if you need somebody to build a team then Pop is better to go with. They both have their flaws and both I believe would not have been as successful if they traded places.

[superbigtime]

The Dennis Rodman fan club has maybe 2 members.

[cd98]

Problem with Rodman is he wanted special treatment. For Pop, that's a firm "no." He treated Tim the same as he treated everyone else, or so say former players. Phil got the Bulls together and told them the Bulls were trading for Rodman and that they were going to let Rodman be Rodman and break the rules and that the other players were still accountable, just not Rodman. And Jordan was there to police Rodman's effort, and it's one thing to have David Robinson think you aren't playing hard and it's quite another to have Jordan barking at you.

[exstatic]

That's selective memory, tbh... Jax was coming from playing overseas and was more or less a nobody until the championship. The Spurs let him walk coz they didn't want to pay him. Second time around, we all know how it ended.

Jax came from the NJ Nets, not overseas. He was a second round that Byron Scott didn't click with. He also left for less than he Spurs offered. They offered 3/$9M and he ended up taking a 1 year deal for $1m when the market dried up.

[james evans]

Problem with Rodman is he wanted special treatment. For Pop, that's a firm "no." He treated Tim the same as he treated everyone else, or so say former players. Phil got the Bulls together and told them the Bulls were trading for Rodman and that they were going to let Rodman be Rodman and break the rules and that the other players were still accountable, just not Rodman. And Jordan was there to police Rodman's effort, and it's one thing to have David Robinson think you aren't playing hard and it's quite another to have Jordan barking at you.

there were no rules broken. He just liked to party all night. He showed up to practice and game day. What a man does on his free time is his own ing business. When you as a coach starts worrying about what players do on their free time and it's not affecting their court performance, then that's a problem.

[ElNono]

Jax came from the NJ Nets, not overseas. He was a second round that Byron Scott didn't click with. He also left for less than he Spurs offered. They offered 3/$9M and he ended up taking a 1 year deal for $1m when the market dried up.

He came from the Nets, but he was drafted by Phoenix and played 3 years in the CBA and overseas. He was a relative unknown. It didn't help Pop buried him to the injured list in his first year to get over himself either, tbh...

Former assistant coach Mike Brown stated: "The first year we had him in San Antonio, he was on the (injured reserve) most of the year. At first, he didn't understand why because he probably was the most talented player we had on that team, but he needed to mature a little bit so we stuck him there to see how he would respond. He was the best teammate on our team that first year. He was juiced at practice ready to play and compete and make the starters better, and it carried over into his second year when he got his opportunity to get out onto the floor and prove he could be a vital part of the organization."

He wanted a longer contract. Yeah, he signed a 2 year deal with Atlanta, but by the time his first year was over, he signed for 6/$38m on his move to Indiana. In hindsight, money-wise, he absolutely made the right move...

On the other hand, whether the Spurs shoulda kept him or not, it's debatable, but it's clear PATFO didn't really care that much if he left.

[hater]

Saw rodman at a strip joint in Miami a while ago

Dude is an animal

[lefty]

We've all seen Pop spend the regular season putting guys in the doghouse for weeks because of one missed rotation, playing them again for one minute, yanking them for another 3 weeks. He needlessly rests guys, especially the young ones. He spends 3/4s of the season playing ridiculous lineups that will never be effective in the playoffs. And most importantly, we've all seen him panic during a playoff series and play head scratching lineups that we all saw were garbage during the regular season.

I'm just saying, Phil never babied players physically. He didn't sit them out over and over for random games throughout the year. He never threw games just to prove a point. He played the lineups that we're going to win in the playoffs and rarely changed his starting lineups. Players understood their role. They weren't constantly guessing "am I playing tonight?" or constantly looking over their shoulders for the quick hook. If rookies were good enough, the played. It wasn't determined in Septemberr. Sorry dude, you won't be playing the playoffs. I'm mean, who does that?

What Phil did helped to galvanized the team on the court, and made them strong and durable and able to push through physically and mentally, like you have to do when grinding through another playoffs as the champs trying to defend your le.

Sure Phil was an ass, but then again, so is Pop. But one took games seriously, even regular season games in January, while the other is more concerned about new planets being discovered.

Phil never threw games to prove a point?

He kinda did

[cd98]

there were no rules broken. He just liked to party all night. He showed up to practice and game day. What a man does on his free time is his own ing business. When you as a coach starts worrying about what players do on their free time and it's not affecting their court performance, then that's a problem.

Uh no.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...n-jordan-rules

[Phenomanul]

^Good article that pretty much derails the notion that "Pop was the problem"... (even if he never directly coached Rodman).

[SpursforSix]

Saw rodman at a strip joint in Miami a while ago

Dude is an animal

What kind of animal?

[james evans]

U got 1 incident on the last year of his contract in the next to last last series of his contract??? Hahaha

[daslicer]

U got 1 incident on the last year of his contract in the next to last last series of his contract??? Hahaha

Every year Rodman was with the Bulls he did something controversial that on any normal team would have disrupted team chemistry. In '96 he headbutted the ref and got suspended for 6 games. In '97 he kicked a camera man in the balls and got suspended 11 games. He also lead the league in technicals for every year that he played with the bulls. He lucked out playing with the GOAT which allowed him to succeed despite being toxic.

[pgardn]

Outspoken black men, tbh... we know how Pop deals with them... If he was Euro or Mexican he would still be playing for the Spurs, tbh...

Fckn nut...

Im gonna negotiate with N. Korea.