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  1. #126
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    This bill out of the house is nuts. It cant possibly pass in the senate as is because of deficit limits. It pjsses off multiple special interests. Its like they made up 2018 democrat attack ads "republicans hate (fill in the blank) homeowners,veterans, the handicapped, people with critical illnesses, etc. And reverse engineered a tax plan to meet that criteria.
    Pretty much.

    This is where having a bull agenda leads to bull promises you can't possibly keep.
    .

  2. #127
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Same thing Ryan tried to do with healthcare. I bet this one has a better chance though.
    Marginally. Still will go down in flames in its current form.

  3. #128
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    We now appear to be uninterested in the deficit.

    So Democrats and Republicans on the same page.
    Unity.
    There are fiscal conservatives on the Democratic side. We are concerned with such things. We just haven't all taken the Norquist blood oath.

  4. #129
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    good more high paying jobs !
    the estate tax is illegal why should the same thing be taxed 5 times!
    The estate tax is perfectly legal. It is a law.

    Sort of the definition of "legal".

    The answer to your question is so that we don't end up with an aristocracy, where being born lucky counts more than merit.

  5. #130
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    so that we don't end up with an aristocracy, where being born lucky counts more than merit.
    the Repug/right wing "originalists" forget, or more likely in their ignorance, never knew, that the FFs, having watched aristocracies in Europe screw the peasantry, were dead set against "primogeniture"

    in any case, i'ts too late to save American for Americans, the American form of aristocracy is the top 5% of wealth holders

    They, along with BigCorp, have all the power that wealth confers, and are untouchable.

  6. #131
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    Here Are The Ten Worst Ways Republicans Are Attacking Working Families In Trump’s Tax Bill

    Below are ten deductions, depended upon by tens of millions of middle-class Americans, that the Trump tax scam would severely limit or eliminate all together:


    1. Limits the State and Local Tax deduction, imposing an unfair double tax on middle class families and undermining the ability of state and local governments to fund priorities, such as law enforcement and education.
    2. Limits the mortgage interest deduction, making it harder for families to buy homes.
    3. Eliminates the student loan deduction, making higher education more expensive.
    4. Eliminates the medical expense deduction, dramatically increasing the cost of healthcare for Americans with disabilities, long-term care needs, and high dental expenses.
    5. Eliminates the deduction for moving expenses to take a new job and taxing employer-provided moving expenses, inhibiting upward mobility.
    6. Eliminates the adoption tax credit — $13,570 per eligible child parents adopt — making adoption even more expensive.
    7. Eliminates a deduction for teachers who purchase supplies for their classroom — an attack on educators that would harm America’s children.
    8. Eliminates the casualty loss deduction, making it harder for Americans to recover from natural disasters — such as flood, hurricane, tornado, or fire — in the event of damage, destruction, or loss of property.
    9. Eliminates the deduction for dependent care assistance, making it harder for families to afford day care, nursery school, or care for aging parents.
    10. Eliminates personal exemptions, which Americans can currently deduct for themselves, a spouse, and dependents and grows with the size of a family.


    Make no mistake:

    the Trump tax scam will devastate working families across the country.

    And 81 cents per day won’t come close to making up the difference.

    http://verifiedpolitics.com/ten-wors...umps-tax-bill/



  7. #132
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Marginally. Still will go down in flames in its current form.
    Really? They kept making the healthcare bill worse every time and it lost by one vote.

  8. #133
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Really? They kept making the healthcare bill worse every time and it lost by one vote.
    The 51 votes are the problem. In order to pass with only 51 votes the plan has to:
    1) not raise the deficit by more than 1.5 trillion in the first ten years.
    2) cant raise the deficit at all after 10 years.
    Even voodoo economics wont get the tax cuts they want within those self imposed guidelines.
    They are ed before they start.

  9. #134
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    They could cut taxes without the other deduction cuts but 10 democrats would have to break ranks and vote with them.

  10. #135
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    They could cut taxes without the other deduction cuts but 10 democrats would have to break ranks and vote with them.
    No way 10 Democrats are going to vote to repeal the estate tax and alternative minimum tax, and without that there is nothing in it for Trump.

  11. #136
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    The 51 votes are the problem. In order to pass with only 51 votes the plan has to:
    1) not raise the deficit by more than 1.5 trillion in the first ten years.
    2) cant raise the deficit at all after 10 years.
    Even voodoo economics wont get the tax cuts they want within those self imposed guidelines.
    They are ed before they start.
    It works fine if they the middle and lower classes over so Trump can give himself a tax cut.

  12. #137
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    This is really one of the most cynical bills I have ever seen.

  13. #138
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Why I said this tax cut is DOA.

  14. #139
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I'm better off with the current tax code even having to pay an accountant $800 to prepare a 1/2" thick tax return.

  15. #140
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    Carried interest, a Trash "promise", untouched

  16. #141
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    Republican Tax Proposal Gets Failing Grade From Higher-Ed Groups

    the bill would eliminate or consolidate a number of tax deductions meant to offset the costs of higher education for individuals and companies,

    including the Lifetime Learning Credit, which provides a tax deduction of up to $2,000 for tuition, a credit for student-loan interest, and a $5,250 corporate deduction for education-assistance plans.

    The bill proposes new taxes on some private-college endowments and on compensation for the highest-paid employees at nonprofit organizations, including colleges and nonprofit academic hospitals.

    The plan would also tax the tuition waivers that many graduate students receive when they work as teaching assistants or researchers.


    Perhaps most significant, the bill would result in many fewer people itemizing their deductions for charitable gifts.

    Higher-education experts warned that that change could lead to a steep decline in donations to colleges.

    http://www.chronicle.com/article/Republican-Tax-Proposal-Gets/241662

    Ignorant, stupid Repugs want everybody to be like them.


    Last edited by boutons_deux; 11-03-2017 at 07:36 PM.

  17. #142
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    We are just damn glad we arent like you, boo.

  18. #143
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    The GOP Tax Bill Is an Attempt to Destroy Government

    Americans need more services, not less.


    Republicans hope that the fog of competing claims will cover their tracks. In the midst of the frenzy, remember one thing: this entire project is utterly wrong-headed. Few politicians dare say it, but the reality is Americans are not overtaxed. They are underserved by their government.

    American corporations and American citizens are not overtaxed, compared with other industrial nations.

    The greatest impediment to corporate compe iveness isn’t what corporations pay in taxes; it is an inefficient, outdated, and increasingly dangerous
    infrastructure.

    For businesses, the best use of public dollars isn’t tax cuts for the rich and big corporations but investments in rebuilding America.

    Similarly, America’s workers are gouged far more by inadequate and wasteful public investment than by high taxes.

    We pay about
    two times as much per capita for health care—with worse results and leaving millions of people still not covered.

    The costs of educating kids—from pre-K to summer programs to soaring college tuitions and fees—rise far faster than stagnant wages.

    For working people,

    the best use of public dollars is to invest in Medicare for All, tuition-free college, universal pre-K, and efficient roads and water systems.

    Trump and Republicans want to sell tax cuts as key to growth and jobs, but this too is a con.

    In using public money to create jobs, the most authoritative assessment—made by Moody’s Mark Zandi, a former adviser to John McCain—is that

    investing in infrastructure would produce far more “
    bang for the buck” in jobs and growth than tax cuts would create.

    35 percent of corporate tax cuts would go to foreign investors or companies.

    Corporate profits are near-record levels, inequality is at record extremes, and interest rates are still low. Corporations don’t need tax breaks. They need customers.

    The rich will get more money under the GOP plan, but they’ve already captured so much of the nation’s income and wealth that even the conservative International Monetary Fund has warned that

    inequality has reached extremes that are an
    impediment to growth and jobs.

    Once the tax cuts are passed, Republicans will return to hectoring about deficits and debt.

    Their budget do ents already call for brutal cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the entire range of public services.

    As crippling as America’s public investment is today, passage of the Republican tax plan virtually insures that it will get far worse.

    the big lies will be exposed.

    The rich will clean up; some in the middle class—particularly those with large families—will pay more. Wealthy real-estate operators, investors, lawyers, and accountants will pocket most of the so-called small business “pass-through” tax break.

    Repatriation and territoriality will give corporations even more incentive to rig their books to report profits in tax havens abroad.

    But the specific outrages are neither as destructive nor as appalling as the entire project itself.

    By making it harder to address America’s crippling public-investment deficits,

    large tax cuts, if passed, will accelerate this country’s decline.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gop-tax-bill-is-an-attempt-to-destroy-government/

    summary: oligarchy pays, owns Repug s to America into un ability


  19. #144
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    BigElectric, BigCoal, BigNaturalGas getting what they paid for

    House Tax Proposal Unsettles the US Wind Industry

    The House bill proposes worrying changes to the Production Tax Credit that could severely curtail the four-year installation forecast for wind power.

    the House bill proposes worrying changes to the Production Tax Credit (PTC) for wind power that immediately destabilizes tax equity, 80-20 repowering efforts and 80 percent PTC value safe-harboring of turbines, and threatens to severely curtail the upcoming four-year installation forecast if the bill becomes law.

    If the Senate must reform the PTC, it would most likely result in the evolution of the credit’s qualification mechanism from a “start of construction” based standard (either through physical work or safe harbor, as shown in Figure 2) to a “date of commercial operation” approach.

    If qualification standards are reduced to meeting a 2020 operation date, it would be a nominal boon to the industry.

    But, ultimately, leaving the qualification mechanisms alone and avoiding any policy uncertainty or industry recalibration is preferable.

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/house-tax-proposal-unsettles-the-us-wind-industry?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm _campaign=Feed%3A+GreentechMedia+%28Greentech+Medi a%29#gs.gvcuZOs

    Wind a great, successful resource for America and job creation, but Repug s want to it up to pay for oligarchy's tax cuts.




  20. #145
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    the estate tax is illegal why should the same thing be taxed 5 times!
    It's actually the exact opposite of illegal

  21. #146
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    Oligarchy extorting votes for enriching itself

    House Republican: my donors told me to pass the tax bill “or don’t ever call me again”

    Chris Collins is saying the quiet part loud



    The Republican donor class — i.e., corporate and wealthy America — expects Republican lawmakers to pass a Republican tax bill.

    It’s as simple as that.

    We know donor pressure is a big reason that Republicans kept trying to repeal Obamacare. But they still failed. Tax reform is their next — and maybe last — chance to deliver a big legislative victory. Republicans know it.

    “We haven’t repealed Obamacare, so if we don’t get tax reform done, we are in trouble,” Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) said back in September.

    “We might as well flip up our tent and go home.”


    So House Republicans aren’t going to sweat the details.

    Their donors put them in office to cut their taxes.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-chris-collins

  22. #147
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    Repugs going after "liberal" "expert" "pointy headed" academia

    Tax Bill ‘Simplification’ Is Code for Higher Education Cuts

    . In reality, this “simplification” cuts tens of billions of dollars in assistance for students and families, with the savings going to fund tax breaks for millionaires, billionaires, and corporations.

    it is particularly important to understand the bait-and-switch going on because the same tactics are likely to be used when the Higher Education Act is reauthorized, as soon as next year.

    The House majority’s tax legislation proposes to eliminate the Lifetime Learning Credit. (The bill also calls for eliminating the Hope Scholarship Tax Credit, which was already replaced by the American Opportunity Tax Credit and cannot be claimed anymore.)

    It also wants to end deductions for student loan interest and end exclusions for training paid for by employers, as well as tuition discounts offered by ins utions to their employees.


    The total federal revenue saved from eliminating these tax benefits is substantial—about $65 billion over 10 years.

    this plan would streamline the process of claiming education tax benefits. But that’s because

    many people will no longer have any benefits from which to choose.

    None of the increased revenue from taking away these tax benefits is put back into helping families afford college, participate in career training, or alleviate the burden of their student loans.

    Instead, the money goes overwhelmingly to tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy.


    https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...ducation-cuts/

    aka the oligarchy's wealthy wonderful successful Class Warfare on the non-wealthy.

    so the non-wealthy go into debt to get an education, then see their $20K loans balloon up to $100K+ with BigFinance's interest and penalties



  23. #148
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    The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

    tuition waivers are paid by the college directly to itself, on behalf of the graduate student, and are not counted as taxable income.

    Under the new GOP tax plan, however, those tuition waivers would be taxed as regular income, making graduate school an unaffordable proposition except for those already independently wealthy.

    In many fields, including the overwhelming majority of STEM fields, tuition waivers are what enable students, many of whom are already deep in debt from their undergraduate days, to afford such a degree.

    the new tax plan (for a single filer, which encapsulates most graduate students) claims that your tax bracket is 0% on the first $12,000 of income, 12% on the next $33,000, and that you don't get into the 30%+ range until you're earning more than $200,000.

    But effectively, all graduate students not only pay far more than that due to this punitive and unfair accounting, but

    the Princeton graduate student pays a higher percentage in taxes than any millionaire or billionaire in America.


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw.../#38f4adb13d2f



  24. #149
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    Trash so DUMB to think Dems are so DUMB

    Trump called Senate Democrats to insist his personal finances will ‘get killed’ by GOP’s tax bill

    “My accountant called me and said ‘you’re going to get killed in this bill,’” THE BEST PEOPLE!

    The president made the call from South Korea, in an attempt to sway the Congressional lawmakers who are currently presenting a roadblock for his party’s tax bill.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/tru...e+Raw+Story%29

  25. #150
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    GOP tax-reform writers benefited from offshore holdings

    A new international report finds Trump cabinet members with massive offshore investments

    President Trump’s inner-circle may be among the biggest beneficiaries of his proposed tax bill that would allow multinational corporations to bring massive offshore holdings back to the mainland at a one-time low-rate.

    Several Trump officials — including key writers of the proposed tax reform bill being sped through Congress — have their own investments or were involved in the decision to keep company profits sheltered overseas,


    • Trump’s chief economic advisor Gary Cohn, who led Goldman Sachs’ purchase of companies from a financial arm of General Motors based in Bermuda.
    • Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who led a billion-dollar oil and gas venture in Yemen.
    • Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, whose former employer CIT Bank, where he was deputy chairman, financed off-shore private jets for clients.
    • Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson, whose biotech company setup offshore firms.


    Other tax haven beneficiaries among Trump’s inner-circle included in the report are:

    U.S. Ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman,

    U.S. Ambassador to India Kenneth Juster,

    former Trump advisor Carl Icahn,

    Trump’s Inaugural Committee Chairman Tom Barrack, and

    SEC Chairman Jay Clayton.

    The Paradise Papers also revealed Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross may have failed to disclosed his business ties to Vladimir Putin’s family during his confirmation hearing,

    https://thinkprogress.org/gop-tax-re...-aae3b60f62ec/


    but but but ... poor people have to "skin in the game!"

    Pootin BFF Ross got caught is NOW divesting his HIDDEN investments in Russian company close to Pootin.




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