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  1. #26
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    To be clear, Spurs' continuity and residue of winning could win the day in the regular season, but there's no credible argument (save for the obligatory injury caveat) for them not being 4th going into playoffs.

    Spurs would probably be better off finishing 4th and ensuring matchup with Warriors in WCSF. By then, it'll have been 4 years in the making. Would like one healthy series against them just to end the speculation and see, once and for all, the exact extent of the gap.
    No doubt bringing back the gang of bums wins you games in the regular season as other teams are getting their bearings. There's also no doubt that talent will get you to the le in today's NBA with all these "super teams" forming. People are kidding themselves if they don't believe it will be a uphill climb getting past these teams for the Spurs.

  2. #27
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Talent still wins games when it matters the most. The Spurs are a one-man team with declining pieces and no real legitimate scoring option after Kawhi. If OKC was a bad match-up last season, this year will be much worse.

    2nd in the West doesn't mean much when your pieces after Kawhi are out of gas by the second round and the games are close.
    I guess the scrubs that stomped the living out of Houston in the game that mattered the most for Houston last year won't agree with your assessment.

    What wins games is the ability to maintain composure, make plays and execute a game plan instead of falling apart like many teams do when the pressure mounts because the PG cannot coach the team and play the game during situational awareness moments.

  3. #28
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    I guess the scrubs that stomped the living out of Houston in the game that mattered the most for Houston last year won't agree with your assessment.

    What wins games is the ability to maintain composure, make plays and execute a game plan instead of falling apart like many teams do when the pressure mounts because the PG cannot coach the team and play the game during situational awareness moments.
    But Houston wasn't more talented than SA last year, imo, and that last game seemed more of an issue of Houston running out of gas than anything. Something this year's Spurs are going to have to worry about with so many old men still playing huge roles.

    Also, having the superior coach and team continuity didn't really help in 2015 and 2016 did it?

  4. #29
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    Who cares who's #2 seed in October...

    The Spurs could finish 2nd come May and this entire board would still preach fools gold.

    Stupid thread..

  5. #30
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    And at think Millsap was some loss. LMA's been better than that dude his whole career, even last year.
    +1

  6. #31
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    But Houston wasn't more talented than SA last year, imo, and that last game seemed more of an issue of Houston running out of gas than anything. Something this year's Spurs are going to have to worry about with so many old men still playing huge roles.

    Also, having the superior coach and team continuity didn't really help in 2015 and 2016 did it?
    You cannot tell me that team in game 6 was less talented than the Spurs bench who was playing starter minutes. If you're going to use circular reasoning to say any team that wins is more talented, then your argument is pointless from the start.

  7. #32
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    The low expectations for the Spurs should make this year less stressful to follow at least.

  8. #33
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    You cannot tell me that team in game 6 was less talented than the Spurs bench who was playing starter minutes. If you're going to use circular reasoning to say any team that wins is more talented, then your argument is pointless from the start.
    I didn't say that at all. I said up until the Spurs lost players, they were the more talented team. After that, it became an issue of stamina in game 6.

    For the most part, in today's NBA with these loaded teams, it will take talent or talent that wins important individual match-ups to win it all. Bottom line, the Spurs don't have it.

  9. #34
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    But Houston wasn't more talented than SA last year, imo, and that last game seemed more of an issue of Houston running out of gas than anything. Something this year's Spurs are going to have to worry about with so many old men still playing huge roles.

    Also, having the superior coach and team continuity didn't really help in 2015 and 2016 did it?
    So many Spurs fans are delusional and don't realize that the post prime Duncan big 3 era was a one in a million type thing. Not only were those 3 better as they aged than often given credit for, but the chemistry, continuity, IQ, unselfishness and towards the end depth, is not something that can be replicated again to mostly mask the high end talent deficient against other elites. This team has virtually none of that and the elites are more stacked now than most were throughout that era.

    Even with all the post prime Duncan big 3 had going for them, as successful as they were, even they only won 1 championship and it was aided, in part, by a key player on their biggest impediment missing the first 2 games of a series and being hobbled thereafter.

  10. #35
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    So many Spurs fans are delusional and don't realize that the post prime Duncan big 3 era was a one in a million type thing. Not only were those 3 better as they aged than often given credit for, but the chemistry, continuity, IQ, unselfishness and towards the end depth, is not something that can be replicated again to mostly mask the high end talent deficient against other elites. This team has virtually none of that and the elites are more stacked now than most were throughout that era.

    Even with all the post prime Duncan big 3 had going for them, as successful as they were, even they only won 1 championship and it was aided, in part, by a key player on their biggest impediment missing the first 2 games of a series and being hobbled thereafter.
    Guys like DMC are not wrong when they say coaching and continuity matters but, when it comes down to it, putting the ball in the hoop is what matters. Of course coaching and continuity will win out provided all things are equal. Yes, it wins you games to solidify a good position in the standings.

    With that said, you can't discount it when it overwhelmingly tips in another team's favor, especially in important match-ups. We saw that in 2015 when CP3 was outplaying all of our guards and hit that big shot. We saw it in 2016 when Kawhi and LMA couldn't carry us past Russ, KD, and their three-headed bigman rotation. Talent and match-ups matter and cannot be downplayed.

    And, more to your point, we have less of a collective BBIQ and continuity than ever when you look at the roster. Too many rookies, and sop res now to make the claim that we have such a massive edge even in this area.

  11. #36
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    West is much better than the east...

    1) GSW 64-18
    2) HOU 60-22
    3) OKC 58-24
    4) SAS 56-26
    5) MIN 53-29
    6) NUG 50-32
    7) NOLA 46-36
    8) LAC 45-37
    9) UTA 44-38

    10) POR 40-42

    11) MEM 31-51
    12) LAL 27-55
    13) SAC 22-60
    14) PHX 18-64
    15) DAL 14-68

  12. #37
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    What the Melo trade did was take out HOU as the second-best team and make them and OKC on the same tier. Whether the Spurs are above or below that tier depends on how well they can utilize their talent. They have the horses, but all of them have question marks.
    Fully expecting some old horses to get injured late in the season or in the playoffs but not b4 creating a sense that things are fine in Pop's mind during the RS and stand pat. Might even keep some young ponies from getting into the race too. Age and injuries Spurs worst nemesis right now.

  13. #38
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I don't see how OKC works with this. I wouldn't have picked up Melo, at all. Maybe it works, I guess.

    I still don't see how Harden and Paul play to each other's strengths. These are also old players on their downside, so it's just for a year or so that this matters anyway.

    The real story is there are few young impact players and almost all of the other ones play for the Warriors.

  14. #39
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I didn't say that at all. I said up until the Spurs lost players, they were the more talented team. After that, it became an issue of stamina in game 6.

    For the most part, in today's NBA with these loaded teams, it will take talent or talent that wins important individual match-ups to win it all. Bottom line, the Spurs don't have it.
    Make up your mind. These caveats make your point useless. Also, having the best coach absolutely helped, unless you think 29 other teams all ended up in last place.

  15. #40
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    Make up your mind. These caveats make your point useless.
    What are you on about? Talent wins championships and that's my opinion. One sole example of that not happening in the Rockets/Spurs series doesn't change that fact. You'd think you would understand that after watching your team get bounced out of the playoffs year in and year out by more talented teams.

    But, by all means, go on about this one example and ignore the fact that the Spurs don't have much talent, or even the continuity factor when you consider all the raw pieces and new faces on the team to make a safe bet that they're still the second best team in the West.

  16. #41
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    You cannot tell me that team in game 6 was less talented than the Spurs bench who was playing starter minutes. If you're going to use circular reasoning to say any team that wins is more talented, then your argument is pointless from the start.
    Who's Jonathon Simmons play for again?

  17. #42
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    Overwhelming talent will win playoff series in this conference now. How can anyone deny this? The Spurs won't get past GS, and likely won't even get that far with one star, old men still playing huge roles, and so many young pieces that go against the argument of continuity winning out. As for superior coaching, that will only get you so far when only one of your players can put the ball in the hoop and comfortably play more than 30 mpg.

  18. #43
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    The low expectations for the Spurs should make this year less stressful to follow at least.
    A lot like the low expectations going into the 2002-03 season honestly.

    2002 offseason the Spurs seemed to get worse by losing players in FA and to retirement, David was on his last legs and about to be calling it quits, and there just was no beating the albatross that was the Lakers in the playoffs, not to mention the Kings and Mavs continuing to get better near the top. Duncan was a lone wolf with no help and we were about to be relying on extremely inexperienced guys to be the major primary role players around Timmy.

    Most people in SA expected about a 4th-5th place finish for the 2003 season and another second round exit. And a nice farewell tour for the Admiral at worst.

  19. #44
    Veteran bklynspursfan's Avatar
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    Fully expecting some old horses to get injured late in the season or in the playoffs but not b4 creating a sense that things are fine in Pop's mind during the RS and stand pat. Might even keep some young ponies from getting into the race too. Age and injuries Spurs worst nemesis right now.
    Are the Spurs really that old tho? TP/Manu/Pau.. Who else?

  20. #45
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    A lot like the low expectations going into the 2002-03 season honestly.

    2002 offseason the Spurs seemed to get worse by losing players in FA and to retirement, David was on his last legs and about to be calling it quits, and there just was no beating the albatross that was the Lakers in the playoffs, not to mention the Kings and Mavs continuing to get better near the top. Duncan was a lone wolf with no help and we were about to be relying on extremely inexperienced guys to be the major primary role players around Timmy.

    Most people in SA expected about a 4th-5th place finish for the 2003 season and another second round exit. And a nice farewell tour for the Admiral at worst.
    Then again, there wasn't a GS to go up against.

  21. #46
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    Are the Spurs really that old tho? TP/Manu/Pau.. Who else?
    Aren't Gay and Aldridge over 30? Still old by NBA standards. Also, TP, Manu, and Pau have huge roles to play.

  22. #47
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    With that said, you can't discount it when it overwhelmingly tips in another team's favor, especially in important match-ups. We saw that in 2015 when CP3 was outplaying all of our guards and hit that big shot. We saw it in 2016 when Kawhi and LMA couldn't carry us past Russ, KD, and their three-headed bigman rotation. Talent and match-ups matter and cannot be downplayed.
    2015 and 16, when the Spurs outscored their opponent on both series, and lost several decisive games on bizarre bad calls, are proof that the Spurs don't have enough talent. Smh

    I understand frustration with this offseason, but this Melo deal doesn't change anything for the spurs, if anything it's great news because rockets didnt get him, and gs are more likely to face a better team in semis.

  23. #48
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    2015 and 16, when the Spurs outscored their opponent on both series, and lost several decisive games on bizarre bad calls, are proof that the Spurs don't have enough talent. Smh

    I understand frustration with this offseason, but this Melo deal doesn't change anything for the spurs, if anything it's great news because rockets didnt get him, and gs are more likely to face a better team in semis.
    Ah, we're blaming refs now. Okay, it had nothing to do with Kawhi being the only clear personnel advantage we had in either of those series. Totally had nothing to do with talent.

    I'll give you 2015 as injuries played a role. 2016, we simply were not the better team.

  24. #49
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    Tell me, how often does the losing team in a series outscore the winner?

  25. #50
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    One thing is for sure if all these West teams stay healthy, for the Warriors getting to the NBA Finals isn't going to be a cakewalk unless ZaZa rolls the ankle of every star player. GS is the favorite to come out of the West, but it will be a difficult task if they can pull it off again. This would favor the Cavaliers to win the championship because their toughest series will probably be vs Celtics, Warriors will either be battle tested or exhausted if they can make it back to the NBA finals. I would say neither the Warriors or Cavs is a lock for the Finals, but it's the most likely outcome.

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