Spurs and LMA engaged in contract extension talks

[Nathan89]

Contract year Lma ended in the preseason.

[SAGirl]

They're pretty much forced to though. They're not getting a starting point guard with the $12.5 million or so they'll have under the cap (assuming Green opts out). So expect something like 3 years, $65 million unless Parker can't walk.

Not only Danny, but Rudy Gay is also a FA next season.

... Sometimes I think this is Danny's last season in the team with as many cheap guards as the team has... Others I just think Spurs will take care of the two of them, then they see what they can do about others with their potential to walk if someone falls in love with them, or of them breaking out with a great postseason showing being very real. All these others are aged 24-26, continuing the narrative when they walk in the offseason that the Spurs are an old team.

[Nathan89]

This isn't a bad deal at all tbh. I've done my fair share of lma hating but he is a solid player. Also after Pau's deal this doesn't even register on the seismograph.

[Chinook]

No, my point was that re-signing the guy who’s uncertain status 4 months ago was cited as being the reason Paul didn’t choose the Spurs is pretty spectacular evidence of incompetence. That’s why I quoted an article saying that Paul didn’t choose the Spurs because of uncertainty over LMA. You should use your words next time and ask what I thought that meant instead of — to use your word — dismissively presuming you know what I meant.

They could not have extended LMA four months ago, so re-signing him now is not relevant to not re-signing him in June. KD's uncertain status made Horford not commit to OKC, but obviously, if KD had been extended, it would not have been a sign of incompetence. Paul wanted LMA; the Spurs saw it as an either or and picked Paul. Paul went elsewhere; the Spurs stayed the course. Not much incompetence there. Plenty of questionable actions in other parts, but not there.

You suggested that LMA was trade bait to make room for Paul — which also is pretty spectacular evidence of incompetence as the Spurs should have done dilligence on what sort of roster they’d need to entice Paul and learned he’d want LMA there. Compounding this issue is the fact that the Spurs seriously thought they had a chance at Paul (despite apparently not having done their homework) as evidenced by the whole Pau fiasco.

The Spurs did nothing but encourage Pau to opt out. Other than that, they hedged their bets pretty well. If they had actually traded LMA only to find out that pushed Paul away, that would have been one thing. But instead they set themselves up for contingencies and were able to pivot when those didn't happen. Only issue is that they should have just let Paul opt in and work on dumping him. I question their motivations, but their planning wasn't bad.

That has been the one and only point I made - the Spurs didn’t do their homework on Paul, which is pretty good evidence on incompetence on their part. Your presumption that I meant “Paul didn’t want LMA” — when I never said nor meant as much — is a pretty good indicator why your posts are fascinating but irrelevant.

If you're going to stand up here and go, "I think the FO is incompetent because they didn't commit to keeping LMA sooner", I'm going to call you a liar. You very much don't think that, if your complaints in this thread and apparent soreness over Paul not being a Spur is any indication. Maybe by some miracle you didn't mean, "I think the FO is incompetent because they didn't get rid of LMA in time to sign CP3". Maybe. The greater point, though, is that you're assuming PATFO were willing to do whatever it took to get Paul but ed it up rather than then knowing full well that Paul wanted LMA over the other options and just decided to disregard it. They could have "done their homework" while also deciding that Paul only made sense if they ran a certain type of roster. Whether they're right or not is something we may never know. But to be honest, CP3 had no place in this conversation any more than KD would.

[vy65]

They could not have extended LMA four months ago, so re-signing him now is not relevant to not re-signing him in June. KD's uncertain status made Horford not commit to OKC, but obviously, if KD had been extended, it would not have been a sign of incompetence. Paul wanted LMA; the Spurs saw it as an either or and picked Paul. Paul went elsewhere; the Spurs stayed the course. Not much incompetence there. Plenty of questionable actions in other parts, but not there.

If you think being told “A” means “not A,” then we’re going to disagree on what the word incompetence means. And I’ll take the Pepsi challenge on my definition being the right one.

And regardless of whether the extension could have been given in July, assurances to Paul that LMA would be extended along with not actively shopping him around the draft would have been good. That they did the opposite — and assumed “A” meant “not A” — is incompetence.

The Spurs did nothing but encourage Pau to opt out. Other than that, they hedged their bets pretty well. If they had actually traded LMA only to find out that pushed Paul away, that would have been one thing. But instead they set themselves up for contingencies and were able to pivot when those didn't happen. Only issue is that they should have just let Paul opt in and work on dumping him. I question their motivations, but their planning wasn't bad.

If you're going to stand up here and go, "I think the FO is incompetent because they didn't commit to keeping LMA sooner", I'm going to call you a liar. You very much don't think that, if your complaints in this thread and apparent soreness over Paul not being a Spur is any indication. Maybe by some miracle you didn't mean, "I think the FO is incompetent because they didn't get rid of LMA in time to sign CP3". Maybe. The greater point, though, is that you're assuming PATFO were willing to do whatever it took to get Paul but ed it up rather than then knowing full well that Paul wanted LMA over the other options and just decided to disregard it. They could have "done their homework" while also deciding that Paul only made sense if they ran a certain type of roster. Whether they're right or not is something we may never know. But to be honest, CP3 had no place in this conversation any more than KD would.

Again, none of this is responsive to the point I’m making — the Spurs were incompetent in pursuing Paul because they clearly failed to do their due dilligence, only to do a complete 180 and fall backwards into the path that could/would have led them to Paul. Their moves with respect to LMA are schizophrenic — I seriously don’t know why this is so hard for you to understand?

[SAGirl]

Gasol's final year is 6.5mil. It's a retirement bonus and about 5% of the cap. The problem is it's 32mil for 2 years.

I hate those retirement bonuses. When the Spurs are penny pinching young players and players at the end of the roster, that doesn't look good to me. Timmy was Timmy... none of these other bigs even compare.

[Seventyniner]

I think PATFO underestimated Houston as a legit threat to lure him away..and once they jumped on board Spurs were ed..As we all said Spurs needed to make moves in order to fit in Paul..

Houston really didn't and had a better immediate roster to sell..:plus Harden being a friend..So Paul pulled the trigger.

Spurs couldn't be as aggressive as Houston because they weren't gonna make major changes and risk it all for nothing..waaay different then the situation with Tiago/LMA

Everyone did because the Rockets got Paul before free agency even started. That means either the Clippers gave the Rockets permission to talk to Paul, or the Rockets engaged in some hardcore tampering. The Spurs might very well have been waiting for July 1 to make their pitch to Paul, and even then it was too late.

[Chomag]

I'm officially done with believing in this FO! So take the only thing that might motivate LA to play well this year...so freaking stupid.

[Chinook]

If you think being told “A” means “not A,” then we’re going to disagree on what the word incompetence means. And I’ll take the Pepsi challenge on my definition being the right one.

And regardless of whether the extension could have been given in July, assurances to Paul that LMA would be extended along with not actively shopping him around the draft would have been good. That they did the opposite — and assumed “A” meant “not A” — is incompetence.

The Spurs weren't really shopping LMA. They were shopping for a pick. It was probably to select one of the combo-forwards at the top of the draft, like Tatum or Jackson. Anyway, the Spurs shopped Parker only to extend him many years ago. It happens.

Again, none of this is responsive to the point I’m making — the Spurs were incompetent in pursuing Paul because they clearly failed to do their due dilligence, only to do a complete 180 and fall backwards into the path that could/would have led them to Paul. Their moves with respect to LMA are schizophrenic — I seriously don’t know why this is so hard for you to understand?

Yes, it is -- very directly. You keep assuming the Spurs were going to get rid of LMA because they didn't know Paul wanted to keep him. It seems very possible that the Spurs simply didn't care. They preferred Paul to LMA, but they weren't going to kowtow to Paul's roster demands. Once Paul backed off, they engaged the Cavs on Irving, whom they also preferred over LMA. Once that failed as well, they went with LMA long-term. It's like the Spurs failed to trade Hill for George, then failed to trade him for Valanciunas only to trade him for Kawhi. They had a set of priorities and contingencies.

[SAGirl]

This isn't a bad deal at all tbh. I've done my fair share of lma hating but he is a solid player. Also after Pau's deal this doesn't even register on the seismograph.

Same for me. I have gripes with the FO, but this ain't one.
Also, they did try to do something last summer, it just didn't work like they thought. Now they are stuck with these guys though and LMA is the best of the guys they re-upped.

[vy65]

The Spurs weren't really shopping LMA. They were shopping for a pick. It was probably to select one of the combo-forwards at the top of the draft, like Tatum or Jackson. Anyway, the Spurs shopped Parker only to extend him many years ago. It happens.

Yes, it is -- very directly. You keep assuming the Spurs were going to get rid of LMA because they didn't know Paul wanted to keep him. It seems very possible that the Spurs simply didn't care. They preferred Paul to LMA, but they weren't going to kowtow to Paul's roster demands. Once Paul backed off, they engaged the Cavs on Irving, whom they also preferred over LMA. Once that failed as well, they went with LMA long-term. It's like the Spurs failed to trade Hill for George, then failed to trade him for Valanciunas only to trade him for Kawhi. They had a set of priorities and contingencies.

The Spurs were actively soliciting Chris Paul — their #1 FA choice — only to do something that totally alienated him (shopping LMA) because they didn’t care that Chris Paul — their #1 FA choice — wanted to keep him? Or weren’t aware of his desire to keep LMA? Does that sound like intelligent moves on the FO’s part, yes or no?

[SAGirl]

Contract year Lma ended in the preseason.

We have contract year Rudy Gay, Danny, Joffrey Lauvergne, Kyle, Bertans and Bryn Forbes to look forward to... Also when he gets back, contract year Tony. He's been rehabbing like a madman and I wonder if the contract year has anything to do with it you know.

[Mr. Body]

I'm fine with this. Not enamored with LMA's dour personality, but when he's on, he's a handful. The Spurs in this market aren't likely to fetch anything better and he's still one of the best posts in the game. Yeah, that says a lot about the game right now, but whatevs.

[Chinook]

The Spurs were actively soliciting Chris Paul — their #1 FA choice — only to do something that totally alienated him (shopping LMA) because they didn’t care that Chris Paul — their #1 FA choice — wanted to keep him? Or weren’t aware of his desire to keep LMA? Does that sound like intelligent moves on the FO’s part, yes or no?

I imagine PATFO were planning on selling Paul on an idea similar to the one I laid out upthread (which would have had crazy good penetration potential may would have been shaky defensively). In fact, if you replace Gay and Pau with better bigs, it might have even been a good roster. They didn't get that chance, because Paul surprised everyone and forced a trade. I don't think the Spurs were ever in that market, at least not unless they could work out a three-team deal with LMA. But they could have decided against that, because Paul's next deal looks horrible.

Paul was the only guy they seemed to think was worth cap space. They tried to trade for Irving and get Iggy with the MLE. Rather than thinking the Spurs were desperate to get Paul, it makes more sense (given how the rest of the off-season played out), that Pop didn't think desperate changes were needed.

[vy65]

I imagine PATFO were planning on selling Paul on an idea similar to the one I laid out upthread (which would have had crazy good penetration potential may would have been shaky defensively). In fact, if you replace Gay and Pau with better bigs, it might have even been a good roster. They didn't get that chance, because Paul surprised everyone and forced a trade. I don't think the Spurs were ever in that market, at least not unless they could work out a three-team deal with LMA. But they could have decided against that, because Paul's next deal looks horrible.

Paul was the only guy they seemed to think was worth cap space. They tried to trade for Irving and get Iggy with the MLE. Rather than thinking the Spurs were desperate to get Paul, it makes more sense (given how the rest of the off-season played out), that Pop didn't think desperate changes were needed.

Didn’t answer the question. Why is that?

[vy65]

I imagine PATFO were planning on selling Paul on an idea similar to the one I laid out upthread (which would have had crazy good penetration potential may would have been shaky defensively). In fact, if you replace Gay and Pau with better bigs, it might have even been a good roster. They didn't get that chance, because Paul surprised everyone and forced a trade. I don't think the Spurs were ever in that market, at least not unless they could work out a three-team deal with LMA. But they could have decided against that, because Paul's next deal looks horrible.

Paul was the only guy they seemed to think was worth cap space. They tried to trade for Irving and get Iggy with the MLE. Rather than thinking the Spurs were desperate to get Paul, it makes more sense (given how the rest of the off-season played out), that Pop didn't think desperate changes were needed.

And if they were “never in the market,” does that make the Pau move better or worse?

[Chinook]

Didn’t answer the question. Why is that?

And if they were “never in the market,” does that make the Pau move better or worse?

I would disagree with them, but there was intelligence there.

The Pau move is absolutely dreadful, but Gasol opted out before Paul made his move.

[TheDoctor]

Ibaka, Millsap, Blake were all last offseason. The others were the season prior after the cap jump, some of whom got extensions that kicked in big this year.

Aldridge is worth that kind of money (low 20s). But if he's in the high 20s... And I'm not a PATFO apologist - thought the Gasol deal was wretched.

Let's hope that Aldridge will play with a chip on his shoulder this year towards the rest of the league for passing up on him during trade talks. If he can do that, then I will be satisfied.

More like a chip in his heart.

[Chinook]

Apparently the deal was only for two years. They only gave him one additional season with $7 Million for the option of a third. Not bad at all.

[Trainwreck2100]

he gonna get fat again.

[daslicer]

It's not a bad deal if he's motivated. Hopefully now with the touches he's getting that he will be motivated to play better.

[sasaint]

For all we know Kawhi's concern for the roster was precisely that Aldridge wasn't secured to come back and he'd be stuck with Gasol as his best big tbh.... I have been critical of Lamarcus but one has to look around and wisen up.

Given all of the LMA bashing (especially my own) here on ST, that would be a great irony.

Your suggestion only highlights the fact that I have never heard a single word about Kawhi's relationship with LMA. If Kawhi values LMA that highly now, he never gave much indication of it before.

Last season, operating as a couple of isolationists, they hardly had any on-court relationship. If LMA has suddenly found the skill and willingness to pass the ball, and Pop has decided to moderate his isolationist policy, then perhaps they will not be so foreign to one another this season.

[SAGirl]

Given all of the LMA bashing (especially my own) here on ST, that would be a great irony.

Your suggestion only highlights the fact that I have never heard a single word about Kawhi's relationship with LMA. If Kawhi values LMA that highly now, he never gave much indication of it before.

Last season, operating as a couple of isolationists, they hardly had any on-court relationship. If LMA has suddenly found the skill and willingness to pass the ball, and Pop has decided to moderate his isolationist policy, then perhaps they will not be so foreign to one another this season.

Kawhi and Lamarcus are both so reserved, it's possible there is hardly a relationship among them but work related. I doubt Kawhi meddles with the FO, but surely they asked him how he felt about Lamarcus being back. Considering the team stayed mostly the same, it made sense to bring him back. It's possible a better coached team with more chemistry and more shooters plays better than last season and they were already formidable with Kawhi in the game. We shall see.

[cjw]

Apparently the deal was only for two years. They only gave him one additional season with $7 Million for the option of a third. Not bad at all.

Doesn't make sense with Gasol as he'll certainly be retired by then. But the partial guarantee in the last year gives the team some negotiating power to add an extra year. I wonder if there's offset language if cut and another team pays him.

Or can stretch with a $2.3mm hit each year for three if it's really bad.

[Mugen]

This offseason:

Slight overpay for Patty, Pau deal was terrible, Kawhi possibly hurt for a while....well at least the season is starting....that's some good news at least.....