Just a comment on todsys no talent no athleticism coming into the nba. When lebum goes this trash will sink
There are quite a few examples of very young PGs entering the NBA without any developed skills and working hard to become solid by the end of their rookie contract - CoJo, Rozier, etc. Murray has length, speed and a quick first step, so he's got things to build on.
Just a comment on todsys no talent no athleticism coming into the nba. When lebum goes this trash will sink
Yep this is pretty much my view.
I still believe in him. He's still young with good physical tools and a disruptive motor. He's going to get better. It's really his shooting which is a concern but it doesn't have to be great, just good enough so that he can make shots if they sag off him or go under picks. He made some jumpshots last night. He's still working on improving its obvious.
If he could just develop his jumper to darn good and lower his dribble... He could be something.
I'm patient. I'm willing to keep him getting minutes and learning the game and then live with Chip in the offseason- which should have started last offseason, tbh.
it must be easier to dribble waist max, than shoulder high
his high dribble is a very bad habit.
Almost as bad as Lonzo's shot.
I get his bending down to force his dribble lower, but that's a compensating maneuver and if he's not there now, it's going to be a for him to progress beyond.
I really want him to work on his shooting form more. His dribble, while problematic, is not as big an issue as his shooting. Even the ones he makes look so awful coming out of his hands.
I just don't understand Chip not getting into him last offseason.
I am absolutly sure that Chip has to be working with Murray on his shot. It was so bad when he came in that his shooting form now looks much better in comparison. His shot selection is another matter, especially his penchant for dribbling into the lane without looking at how many defenders are waiting there. He has to look for his teammates rather than just bull ahead. No doubt that always worked for him before in high school and his freshman year in college, but he has to develop better recognition and BB IQ.
He's improving. He's getting lots more minutes. It''s just a matter of his learning curve. Parker came in younger and showed he was ready to take over very quickly the first year. Murray is now in his second year and not ready to take over.
I savvy. I do disagree about improvement on his shooting form- it looks horrid and unsure, but sure- if that makes sense. Like his hubris wills it in, which is more than reminiscent of a young Manu...
All in all, I like the kid and I think, if he properly directs his enthusiastic work ethic in the right directions- he could be special.
Chip can help players, but some just don’t have the gift of a shooting touch. Not every player to come into the organization has turned into a great shooter. Parker, though a poor shooter the first few years, had decent form, and had to work hours upon hours to get an effective midrange jumper. He never got a great three point shot. Kawhi worked like crazy and his improvement in short time is unbelievable.
Nothing guarantees that Murray will develop like Tony or Kawhi and not like countless others that couldn’t develop enough under the Spurs regime.
He looked good last night. Once he develops a semi decent jumper teams are gonna be pissing their pants
Pretty much this. Chip isn't a miracle worker than can make any random guy into a great jump shooter. Kawhi was able to fix his shot quickly because he is a special player and from what I heard Chip say that originally his previous shooting form wasn't too off from being fixed. It just needed to be slightly tweaked. Some guys can fix their shot overnight by intensely working on it during the summer and other guys it takes years to fix like you said with Tony. I heard in an interview with Kidd about a few weeks ago in which he stated that he worked hard throughout his whole entire career to be a better jumpshooter but he couldn't figure it out until he got to Dallas.
His rebounding has jumped by 4 boards per minute per 36 which is pretty impressive.
I am a lot more bullish on his future, his biggest issues are his lack of a jumper and some loose ball handling but his rebounding and potential to be an above average defender along with an under rated passing ability are all strengths.
Shooting breakdown
(doesn't include the last two games, in the Dallas game he hit 3 layups and 3 jumpers which would raise his percentages some)
0-3- .555 (Below average)
3-10-.395 (Below average)
11-16-.235 (Below average)
17-22-.263 (Below average)
3pt- .333 (Below average)
His finishing is his best attribute but it's not league average at this point. Offensively he has a lot of work to do but I can see a path to him becoming an good offense player down the road. Continuing to work on his mid range particularly his pull up jumper, and finishing at the rim, along with those floaters- basically Tony Parker.
Although I made the same point earlier: He made 'em last night, but you cannot tell me his jumpers looked even remotely good.
That is what teams will be looking at and will be exploited these upcoming playoffs.
I'm hoping and wishing he finds a reliably good form this next off season.
He can never be like Parker. Parker's first step was lightening quick and he was the fastest player in the league for at least the first 10-12 years of his career.
Well that's just impossible.
What is weird about Parker's career is that he made a living slithering in and around the bigs for layups--but didn't get a foul called for him very often while shooting. For him to get into the lane that often, over and over, without getting hit seems impossible, but he really must be extremely elusive in there.
Pure speed. Once he could make a midrange and teams couldn’t clog the lane, he became unguardable with his combo of speed and elite level finishing.
Name me a player that was quicker than Parker from '01-'12?
Parker had quick speed combined with great footwork and ball handling. That's why when he drove to the hole he was great at finishing. To see the difference look at a guy like Westbrook who has quick speed but looks uncoordinated when he attacks the basket.
The guy Murray should model his game after is Gary Payton. His height-length and his body build is very similar to Payton. He has the physical tools to be a great defender like Payton and already is strong rebounder just like Payton was.
Last edited by daslicer; 12-17-2017 at 10:07 PM.
I look forward to his summer league next summer. That's not the end all be all as we all know, but what was revealing from his last summer league was that he didn't take a single jumpshot, not one as far as I recall. That wasn't a good sign to see this past summer. His high dribble and erratic decision making was still very present back then too. in that sense, he looks a lot better right now in comparison to his summer league self. So I'd hope that with work all season and next summer he looks more polished next. I have noticed improvement in his decision-making. Pop remarked that he's playing smarter game by game, getting better and I agree with Pop. I do see improvement. Still has ways to go though, specially to be what he wants to be.
His footwork was superb too. Murray doesn't have that craftiness and trickiness with his pivot foot. He's definitely not as skilled. Hopefully they have him learning stuff. I have seen him dust off a spin move here or there, but nothing dangerously effective. I don't think he needed craftiness in lower leagues. He's was a transition scorer.
Here's a clip of Rookie Parker against the Lakers in game 3 of '02 playoffs. Go to the 26 second mark of the clip to see how great Tony Parker's footwork was as a rookie. Also go to 1:54 and watch Tony Parker score on 1 on 3 fast break against Kobe,Fox,Fisher. It's pretty impressive because they are all in front of him and he still manages to go by all 3 and score the layup. Murray currently can't do those type of moves.
Tony's jumpshot even looks better than Dijon's there ImO.
Tony was never a terrible jump shooter. He was average to slightly above average to begin with. I liked that he took threes early on his career. It pissed me off when they made him stop shooting them as I think it re ed his game. If he kept shooting that 3-pointer and learned to make a higher percentage of them, it would have opened up his game so much more - it could have been ridiculous to couple a decent 3-point shot with his speed. I still don't get why Pop told him to not shoot threes for a long stretch of years. IMO it was stupid.
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