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  1. #126
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Crabtree has been cut, which probably means Nelson is happening.

    he had a very good stint with the raiders tbh... chain mover, touchdown machine. but he's a possession guy coming off a really down year where he had an awful case of the drops, and ended up having something of a fallout out with the team as the season ended. would not have minded having him back.

    but nelson is a good replacement, so they're keeping the talent/pay comparable while getting rid of the side issues. nelson is also a chain mover, touchdown machine, and has great hands. i dont think he's going to be the big play guy he was a couple years ago, but he should still have a big role. he can also play the slot very well, which is something the raiders haven't had in some time. our #3 receiver, seth roberts, isn't a shifty guy at all. cooper has the tools to play in the slot, but they like his speed outside and he's not great at making catches in traffic.
    Last edited by spurraider21; 03-15-2018 at 04:13 PM.

  2. #127
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    yup, so raiders replace Crabtree and his remaining 2/16 with Nelson for 2/15

    difference is, Crabtree had nothing guaranteed left, while they've basically guaranteed Nelson's full deal.

  3. #128
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    Packers need O-line help a lot more than they need Jimmy Graham
    Graham is maybe the worst blocking starting tight end in the league, he's a poor route runner, and he struggles with speed and drops these days... gone are the days you can just lob one over the mid seam route and expect him to come down with it almost every time

    also, Mo Wilkerson stinks these days. Not the same after gaining all that excess weight and getting injured, that's for sure. They'll probably start him on the opposite side of Mike Daniels next to Kenny Clark, but the rest of their defense is still a big problem

  4. #129
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    yup, so raiders replace Crabtree and his remaining 2/16 with Nelson for 2/15

    difference is, Crabtree had nothing guaranteed left, while they've basically guaranteed Nelson's full deal.
    & Jordy is washed up. Surprised he didn't go to the Patriots, though. Was expecting Jordy to the Pats + Cooks being traded for a 2nd, because New England.

    Crabtree to SF would be awesome and funny in so so many different ways. Please, football gods, make it happen

  5. #130
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    Pats getting CB McCourty was pretty obvious, though. Now they have their Butler replacement, he's not as good as Butler, but the camaraderie with FS McCourty who's his fraternal twin brother can't be overlooked.

  6. #131
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    yup, so raiders replace Crabtree and his remaining 2/16 with Nelson for 2/15

    difference is, Crabtree had nothing guaranteed left, while they've basically guaranteed Nelson's full deal.
    Ravens backed out of a deal with Ryan Grant to pursue Crabtree, citing a failed physical. It might be a good move football-wise, but it seems like such a s bag thing to do for a team that has been abysmal in the PR department for the past few years. It's getting harder and harder to be a Ravens fan lately.

  7. #132
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Ravens backed out of a deal with Ryan Grant to pursue Crabtree, citing a failed physical. It might be a good move football-wise, but it seems like such a s bag thing to do for a team that has been abysmal in the PR department for the past few years. It's getting harder and harder to be a Ravens fan lately.
    the raiders did that a few years ago after massively overpaying Roger Saffold. we ended up signing donald penn instead. no complaints here.

    crabtree would be a good get for baltimore if he gets over his drops. he can be the security blanket flacco hasn't had since boldin. the drops are weird, because he has great hands. sounds like an oxymoron.... but somehow its true. the guy makes effortless suction cup-like catches at the boundaries and in traffic, and then drops easy ones. seems like its just a mental thing that he can probably get over. i think a change of scenery could help there

  8. #133
    Veteran SanAntonioSpurs23's Avatar
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    Colts have 70+ million in cap space and they have signed Denico Autry..... smh

  9. #134
    you're a phony Holden_Caulfield's Avatar
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    oh jags got ASJ, we on the up s. We still need a #1 WR(Sutton), an ILB (Rashaan Evans) and a backup/developmental QB (Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk)

  10. #135
    Veteran RGMCSE's Avatar
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    oh jags got ASJ, we on the up s. We still need a #1 WR(Sutton), an ILB (Rashaan Evans) and a backup/developmental QB (Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk)
    These Jags are going HAM! Jags can go BAP all through the draft. QB at 29?

  11. #136
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    viking signed sheldon richardson.

    lol, so seattle traded a 2nd round pick to rent a player for a season

  12. #137
    Veteran RGMCSE's Avatar
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    viking signed sheldon richardson.

    lol, so seattle traded a 2nd round pick to rent a player for a season
    inthink the writing is on the wall. The run is over for now.

  13. #138
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Ravens signed Crabtree. Good pickup for them. Flacco needs all the help he can get.

    Crabtree got a 3 year deal worth up to 21 mil. 11 guaranteed, and he's getting 15 mil in the first 2 years.

    So for all intents and purposes, both Nelson/Crabtree are getting 2/15... but Baltimore has a team option for 6 mil in the third year. Crabs got the more team friendly deal (unless you factor in the comp pick system, but i dont think that will factor in 2 years from now when these guys are old)

    Also means the raiders probably could have just traded Crabtree's contract (2/16, no guarantees).
    Last edited by spurraider21; 03-16-2018 at 05:50 PM.

  14. #139
    My Favorite Faded Fantasy The Gemini Method's Avatar
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    & Jordy is washed up. Surprised he didn't go to the Patriots, though. Was expecting Jordy to the Pats + Cooks being traded for a 2nd, because New England.

    Crabtree to SF would be awesome and funny in so so many different ways. Please, football gods, make it happen
    That Crabtree and Sherman dynamic would've been great. Not to mention the Talib v. Crabtree being 2x a year...? But he's in Charm City now.

  15. #140
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Ravens signed Crabtree. Good pickup for them. Flacco needs all the help he can get.

    Crabtree got a 3 year deal worth up to 21 mil. 11 guaranteed, and he's getting 15 mil in the first 2 years.

    So for all intents and purposes, both Nelson/Crabtree are getting 2/15... but Baltimore has a team option for 6 mil in the third year. Crabs got the more team friendly deal (unless you factor in the comp pick system, but i dont think that will factor in 2 years from now when these guys are old)

    Also means the raiders probably could have just traded Crabtree's contract (2/16, no guarantees).
    Depending on how they framed his deal, his cap hits could be really low his first two years, like $3.333M and $7.333M. Hopefully they do something more even like:


    2018 -- $4M sal (gtd) + $2.333M bonus = $6.333M cap hit + $2.5M in incentives

    2019 -- $4M sal + $2.333M bonus = $6.333M cap hit (or $8.833M if the incentives from the previous year hit)+ $2.5M in incentives

    2020 -- $6M sal + $2.333M bonus = $8.333M cap hit (or that much plus whatever incentives he has that were previously obtained or otherwise considered LTBE).

    That would let them get out of it after a year if they had to or keep him for the life of his deal without incurring any particular harm. He'd be expensive with those incentives, but hopefully they're written in such a way that if he hits those, he's worth it. In either event, that's probably a superior outcome than giving up a pick to trade for his deal.

  16. #141
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Depending on how they framed his deal, his cap hits could be really low his first two years, like $3.333M and $7.333M. Hopefully they do something more even like:


    2018 -- $4M sal (gtd) + $2.333M bonus = $6.333M cap hit + $2.5M in incentives

    2019 -- $4M sal + $2.333M bonus = $6.333M cap hit (or $8.833M if the incentives from the previous year hit)+ $2.5M in incentives

    2020 -- $6M sal + $2.333M bonus = $8.333M cap hit (or that much plus whatever incentives he has that were previously obtained or otherwise considered LTBE).

    That would let them get out of it after a year if they had to or keep him for the life of his deal without incurring any particular harm. He'd be expensive with those incentives, but hopefully they're written in such a way that if he hits those, he's worth it. In either event, that's probably a superior outcome than giving up a pick to trade for his deal.
    could be, but i think a signing bonus would have been specifically reported, rather than just saying "11 mil guaranteed"

    could be that details aren't known yet, but usually those are a pretty big deal

    and if they let him go after a year in that scenario, they'd still be eating 4.6 mil in dead money to do so, or 2.3 if he's a post june 1 cut (but then would count 2.3 the following season too)

  17. #142
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    could be, but i think a signing bonus would have been specifically reported, rather than just saying "11 mil guaranteed"

    could be that details aren't known yet, but usually those are a pretty big deal
    It was specifically reported as $7 Million. I wouldn't have just pulled that number out of the sky.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...chael-crabtree

    Terms weren't disclosed, but Crabtree received a three-year, $21 million deal, including $15 million in the first two years and $11 million guaranteed ($7 million signing bonus), a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter. The deal could be worth up to $20 million in the first two years.
    So essentially, it's about finding out how what was reported could fit into a structure. I'm assuming the Ravens handing out all of their guaranteed money this year, which is typical for deals this small. But if they want to backload it as much as possible, they could give him an option bonus next season worth $4 Million, guaranteed base salaries of $1 and $3 Million and then that $7-Million signing bonus. That would give the aforementioned cap hit while making the final year a relative monster in terms of cap hit, more than the other two years combined. They've messed around with structures like that before, but not for three-year deals and such a low APY.

  18. #143
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    and if they let him go after a year in that scenario, they'd still be eating 4.6 mil in dead money to do so, or 2.3 if he's a post june 1 cut (but then would count 2.3 the following season too)
    I think you added this part after I initially quoted you, or I just missed it. I don't like thinking of contracts like that. The Ravens wouldn't be eating $4.6 Million in dead money. Half of that is dead regardless of what they do. Cutting him only incurs $2.3 Million in penalties. You're right that they wouldn't save much at all $1.666 Million minus the cost of a replacement. But saying the way you're phrasing it suggests the Ravens would owe money if they cut him after this season. They would not. In general, I hate the tendency to use cap hits in place of base salary. Most of the time, a huge chunk of the hit cannot be changed and should be disregarded from the calculus on whether to get rid of a player or not.

  19. #144
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    as soon as Crabtree hits the market, the Ravens void Ryan Grant’s contract due to a “failed physical”.

    Imagine the national outrage if the Patriots did that

  20. #145
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    ah, i didnt see the report of the signing bonus . my bad Chinook

  21. #146
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I think you added this part after I initially quoted you, or I just missed it. I don't like thinking of contracts like that. The Ravens wouldn't be eating $4.6 Million in dead money. Half of that is dead regardless of what they do. Cutting him only incurs $2.3 Million in penalties. You're right that they wouldn't save much at all $1.666 Million minus the cost of a replacement. But saying the way you're phrasing it suggests the Ravens would owe money if they cut him after this season. They would not. In general, I hate the tendency to use cap hits in place of base salary. Most of the time, a huge chunk of the hit cannot be changed and should be disregarded from the calculus on whether to get rid of a player or not.
    i always think of it in terms of cap hit rather than actual transfer of money

  22. #147
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    Honey badger to Houston for 1 year/7 million on a prove-it deal. Well done. If he can stay healthy and get back to form it could pay off nicely for both sides

  23. #148
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    as soon as Crabtree hits the market, the Ravens void Ryan Grant’s contract due to a “failed physical”.

    Imagine the national outrage if the Patriots did that
    nah. Several examples just this week. Look at Bashaud Breeland, and the Panthers don't have a replacement since they traded away Worley. They're now going to have to draft and start a rookie CB2 which isn't good at all. They're pretty much forced to take a CB in the first round, now. Not good at all for Carolina.

    I guess that's what they get for WAYYYYYY overdrafting a 3rd round caliber receiving scatback at #8 overall instead of the great Marshon Lattimore.

  24. #149
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    Honey badger to Houston for 1 year/7 million on a prove-it deal. Well done. If he can stay healthy and get back to form it could pay off nicely for both sides
    One year deals are generally horrid for teams though. The guy plays well and just bolts because "they can't afford him back" and it becomes a waste all around. Alshon Jeffery on the Eagles is the rare exception.

  25. #150
    Veteran SanAntonioSpurs23's Avatar
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    Just raped the Jets. Colts trade #3 pick for #6, #37, #49 and next years 2nd.

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