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  1. #101
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    Even if Austin and DJ opt in, we still have plenty of cap space in 2019. Not exactly "dire."
    You’re right re Clips in summer of 2019 (DJ and Austin come off books), i was looking at this summer so my f-up.

    Still, the calculus is different but might still make the Clips move before then: (1) what team are Clips going to pitch Leonard on in 2019 vis-a-vis other destinations; and (2) do you move now when you have two first rounders (and amazingly none for a while after that) if you think another team has an inside track.

  2. #102
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    I just don’t get the idea that if you can put yourself in the 3rd or 4th best team convo that just because it’s not above GS or HOU that blowing it up is better? Makes no sense to me.
    I don't think they can. You think they're going to be better than Boston? That's going to be a 60 win team next year. The Sixers will probably be close too. The Spurs are going to be better than Toronto? Or whoever LeBron goes to?

  3. #103
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    Luckily for all the fans that will be happy just to keep a meaningless playoff streak alive only to get skull ed by HOU/GS the next 3 years, PATFO will never ever blow it up.

    We'll see a Kawhi trade for 50 cents on the dollar, give Porky a 2 year thank you contract, double down on the Patty/Pau deals, probably another 10mil/year deal to Danny, overpay Fathead...at least Manu won't have to sit through another season of this mediocrity.....

    We'll convince ourselves that Dejounte/White is a star backcourt in the making, overhype whatever 18th pick we end up with....only to be curbstomped again by a real team. Maybe they overachieve tho and make a 2nd round appearance so Pop can get outcoached by Alvin Gentry or Billy Donovan

  4. #104
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    If this is what it comes to, Kawhi will have a lot of sway where he ends up and conversely, what the Spurs can get for him.
    No, he won't. PG didn't get to go to LA despite having a clean bill of health and explicitly saying he wanted to go there. People like to complain about Indy's return, but it was about as good as you can expect . Imagine if they'd've gotten Kyrie's return instead. , Cousins straight-up threatened to leave the team that traded for him, and he went for a lightly protected lotto first, a rookie mid-lotto pick and a decent vet. 80 percent of the offers discussed here are in that same caliber. If the offers are low, it will be because of health, not because of where he's going to reup.

    That said, I do think teams will suppress offers with the idea that Kawhi may not play a game there. Phoenix may not risk the top pick for him, though I do think Warren and 15 would happen even if Kawhi had a leg amputated. A team like the Clippers, who are likely to buy into the LA hype, might comparatively sell the farm for Leonard. Boston may want to nickel and dime PATFO, but Boston. Ultimately, the biggest determinant in how well the Spurs make out in a Leonard trade will be RC's ability to evaluate a package. Oladipo probably gets a top-five pick in this draft. No one would have thought that a year ago. As mentioned IT and Crowder were hot garbage, and the Brooklyn pick is mediocre. Going for the next Oladipo-like turnaround and avoiding the IT-like pitfall will make or break the team.

  5. #105
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    Which makes it an even better time to blow it up. At least with a healthy Leonard you had a puncher's chance (like we saw last season). But there is no realistic way to have a puncher's chance replacing him. The only way I'd keep the team together is if the Spurs want to call Kawhi's bluff by not trading him and daring him to be a for a second season. Now that I think more about it, I think I'm on board with doing that since I don't think they'd trade Aldridge for value this summer.
    No - you see with injuries (like Curry) that it’s way better to hang around. Trading LMA isnt going to net you the first pick or something.

    I would rather have the 3rd or 4th best team in the league with lottery picks (maybe multiple with a Kawhi trade) and do your best for 2-3 years as they develop and then in 3 years you have a great core and lots of free agent money as LMA is on his way out.

    You realize what you’re saying. If you think LMA can net you the 14th pick (not taking into considering money), then you would really not rather have a shot at being the 3rd or 4th best team in the league for 3 years that has lottery picks with or without a LMA trade for the sake of getting the 14th pick?

  6. #106
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    Why wait to blow it up though?
    Because you don’t blow up teams that with a few tweaks that can both be a conf finals team and have lottery talent already (if Kawhi is traded).

  7. #107
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    No, he won't. PG didn't get to go to LA despite having a clean bill of health and explicitly saying he wanted to go there. People like to complain about Indy's return, but it was about as good as you can expect . Imagine if they'd've gotten Kyrie's return instead. , Cousins straight-up threatened to leave the team that traded for him, and he went for a lightly protected lotto first, a rookie mid-lotto pick and a decent vet. 80 percent of the offers discussed here are in that same caliber. If the offers are low, it will be because of health, not because of where he's going to reup.

    That said, I do think teams will suppress offers with the idea that Kawhi may not play a game there. Phoenix may not risk the top pick for him, though I do think Warren and 15 would happen even if Kawhi had a leg amputated. A team like the Clippers, who are likely to buy into the LA hype, might comparatively sell the farm for Leonard. Boston may want to nickel and dime PATFO, but Boston. Ultimately, the biggest determinant in how well the Spurs make out in a Leonard trade will be RC's ability to evaluate a package. Oladipo probably gets a top-five pick in this draft. No one would have thought that a year ago. As mentioned IT and Crowder were hot garbage, and the Brooklyn pick is mediocre. Going for the next Oladipo-like turnaround and avoiding the IT-like pitfall will make or break the team.

  8. #108
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    I don't think they can. You think they're going to be better than Boston? That's going to be a 60 win team next year. The Sixers will probably be close too. The Spurs are going to be better than Toronto? Or whoever LeBron goes to?
    Ya - I do. Again, imagine this year if SA had Mitc (a rookie lottery pick) + another free agent + no TP/Manu but instead White or other rotational players. You don’t think they would be better than the teams you listed?

  9. #109
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    All this blow it up is dumb. It's not our decision and it's an unknowable decision.

    The first issue: how healthy is kawhi, does that impact trade value or 2019 FA $$$.

    The second: how good are the trade offers

    The third: is that offer good enough to avoid the tank.

    Spurs are not going to tank unless the vets retire and LMA agrees or consents to a trade. While to us, we have selfish demands, the team has relationships and business demands. It won't line up with spurtalk demands.

  10. #110
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    Luckily for all the fans that will be happy just to keep a meaningless playoff streak alive only to get skull ed by HOU/GS the next 3 years, PATFO will never ever blow it up.

    We'll see a Kawhi trade for 50 cents on the dollar, give Porky a 2 year thank you contract, double down on the Patty/Pau deals, probably another 10mil/year deal to Danny, overpay Fathead...at least Manu won't have to sit through another season of this mediocrity.....

    We'll convince ourselves that Dejounte/White is a star backcourt in the making, overhype whatever 18th pick we end up with....only to be curbstomped again by a real team. Maybe they overachieve tho and make a 2nd round appearance so Pop can get outcoached by Alvin Gentry or Billy Donovan
    There’s the optimist I love.

    Think about it, man. Let’s say you blow it up. How does that help you get past GS/HOU? Are you saying just wait them out for years on end? Who’s to say they won’t keep it going and land other stars?

    SA is one of the few teams that can be in that 2nd tier while rebuilding on the fly (if you trade Kawhi) and get the best of both worlds.

    Blowing it up only means trading LMA and Kawhi. It’s not like trading LMA is going to get you the top pick back or something. There is no reason to blow it up when you can have the best of both worlds if you trade Kawhi.

    If you keep Kawhi, even with this exact same team we have this year, SA IS the third best team if not 2nd.

  11. #111
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    Ya - I do. Again, imagine this year if SA had Mitc (a rookie lottery pick) + another free agent + no TP/Manu but instead White or other rotational players. You don’t think they would be better than the teams you listed?
    So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.

  12. #112
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    So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.
    So you are knocking my plan, but your plan is to sell a star for another pick that you seem to be questioning the value of

  13. #113
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    Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

    Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

    This.

  14. #114
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    So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.
    Also, you would not need a star from day 1. If you just added a solid rookie (Tatum wasn’t a star, but lets use him) and just a MLE type player (Tyreke Evans type) and White you think that is unreasonable that SA would not have gone over 50 wins with that?

    If SA had Mitc (a star from day 1) they would be even further ahead.

  15. #115
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    There’s the optimist I love.

    Think about it, man. Let’s say you blow it up. How does that help you get past GS/HOU? Are you saying just wait them out for years on end? Who’s to say they won’t keep it going and land other stars?

    SA is one of the few teams that can be in that 2nd tier while rebuilding on the fly (if you trade Kawhi) and get the best of both worlds.

    Blowing it up only means trading LMA and Kawhi. It’s not like trading LMA is going to get you the top pick back or something. There is no reason to blow it up when you can have the best of both worlds if you trade Kawhi.

    If you keep Kawhi, even with this exact same team we have this year, SA IS the third best team if not 2nd.
    I guess I'm just not interested in being a perennial 3rd - 7th seed for the next 5 years. I'd much rather go the Hinkie route and get as many cracks at landing a generational talent as you can. A team with Lamarcus Aldridge as it's best player isn't going to win a championship, I know I don't have to convince you of that

    My scenario of blowing it up is for when you're sure Kawhi isn't on the team anymore (i put it as high probability that he's traded this summer). If he's on the team then yeah keep taking your shots for the next 2 years and hope Curry or Dominos tear an ACL during the season.

  16. #116
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    I think when people get caught on this, they really don’t go through the exercise of thinking this out.

    If you tank, there are no guarantees you can get back. You would have to not only nail your picks (which you just said doesn’t seem that much of a sure thing) but you also have to convince free agents to come (and you just admitted you’re tanking) and you have to hope you other guys Murray/White etc..develop. The downside is crazy and unless you are bad enough to get the top pick, the upside is limited.

    OR

    You keep making the playoffs, have a team that can 50 games or more (if you keep Kawhi or trade him) and you can still get almost as much lottery picks and not NEED them to be homeruns to be a playoff team. If they are homeruns, you are now a legit contender.

  17. #117
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    Also, you would not need a star from day 1. If you just added a solid rookie (Tatum wasn’t a star, but lets use him) and just a MLE type player (Tyreke Evans type) and White you think that is unreasonable that SA would not have gone over 50 wins with that?

    If SA had Mitc (a star from day 1) they would be even further ahead.
    Sure, that team wins 50 and flames out in the 1st round. What a successful season

  18. #118
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    So you are knocking my plan, but your plan is to sell a star for another pick that you seem to be questioning the value of
    Your plan is put all your eggs into one basket with one draft pick who needs to be the ROY (which Mitc would be most seasons).

  19. #119
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    I guess I'm just not interested in being a perennial 3rd - 7th seed for the next 5 years. I'd much rather go the Hinkie route and get as many cracks at landing a generational talent as you can. A team with Lamarcus Aldridge as it's best player isn't going to win a championship, I know I don't have to convince you of that

    My scenario of blowing it up is for when you're sure Kawhi isn't on the team anymore (i put it as high probability that he's traded this summer). If he's on the team then yeah keep taking your shots for the next 2 years and hope Curry or Dominos tear an ACL during the season.
    Ya but if you blow it up, even if you land Embiid, how does that give you a better shot at beating GS assuming they don’t keep pulling off moves?

    You have to be bad enough to get the number one pick (maybe twice) to get what PHI did and SA isn’t in any better situation to acquire those assets by trading LMA IMO. Kawhi is the piece that can get you those assets; not LMA.

  20. #120
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    Also, you would not need a star from day 1. If you just added a solid rookie (Tatum wasn’t a star, but lets use him) and just a MLE type player (Tyreke Evans type) and White you think that is unreasonable that SA would not have gone over 50 wins with that?

    If SA had Mitc (a star from day 1) they would be even further ahead.
    I thought we were gonna be better than Boston and Philly and Toronto and Team LeBron.

  21. #121
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    Your plan is put all your eggs into one basket with one draft pick who needs to be the ROY (which Mitc would be most seasons).
    No - my plan is be a playoff team without anyone we’ve discussed and any help is better than no Kawhi. IF you get a Mitc ; you’re now a contender. If you get just a bleh player, you are still a playoff team.

    In your scenario, there is no going back. If you don’t land a Mitc , SA is in for God knows how long. If you DO get a Mitc , you still have a ton of work to do just to get back to where SA ALREADY IS.

  22. #122
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    Well, obviously, I don't want Warren. The point, though, is that even teams that probably don't feel like Kawhi will stay will offer the team a chance to start reloading. That forces the more confident/desperate teams to raise their bids. Like LA can't necessarily afford to sit back on their laurels and assume Kawhi's going to make it there. My guess is Magic learned for the PG trade that tampering isn't enough.

  23. #123
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    I thought we were gonna be better than Boston and Philly and Toronto and Team LeBron.
    With no Kawhi you thought that??

  24. #124
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    Maybe it's cuz I don't live in San Antonio so I don't give a if the team is somewhat compe ive to keep drawing the local crowd.

    But I'd much rather be absolute for the next 4 seasons and be the Sixers in year 5. Then be a 4th seed for the next 10 years without any realistic chance at a ring.

  25. #125
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    With no Kawhi you thought that??
    That's what you were telling me.

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