A More Nuanced Look at the DPE Extension

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And all we have to show for it is currently being in the wonderful position of basketball purgatory. A slightly above .500 team getting gentleman swept out of the first round.

Cool.

Wow, since when did 12 games over .500 become slightly?

[RD2191]

Lol. I'm not the one that's going to throw a little tantrum should PATFO make a decision on KL's future based on what they **know** about his health.

That's called making a ***rational*** decision, not an ***emotional*** decision.

Patfo can themselves. Wasn't patty coming off shoulder surgery when they gave him his contract? Enjoy patty and pau the next few seasons.

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Wow, since when did 12 games over .500 become slightly?

Under your math, the Spurs were slightly under a 60 win team, too.

[Ice009]

If he were 100% healthy, why did he sit out 73 games? If he IS actually 100% healthy now, that begs the question: when? How long was he healthy and sitting?

I'm just trading him at this point, getting what you can, and making this some other team's problem.

What if he's just come good just now after all that rehab, or if not there now, will be soon? Maybe he really was injured for most of the year.

[exstatic]

Patfo can themselves. Wasn't patty coming off shoulder surgery when they gave him his contract? Enjoy patty and pau the next few seasons.

No, that was his bargain deal signed in 2014. It was 3yrs/$9M.

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Patfo can themselves. Wasn't patty coming off shoulder surgery when they gave him his contract? Enjoy patty and pau the next few seasons.

Are you comparing the known and diagnosed shoulder injury that kept Patty out for only 31 games despite having surgery a month before training camp began with the bizarro world shot that went down with Kawhi this year???

Seriously??

FTR, he has since played in 80+ games each of the last three seasons...the only player to do so. Also, he is the only player to have played all 82 games last year for the Spurs.

Comparison ing fail.

[RD2191]

Are you comparing the known and diagnosed shoulder injury that kept Patty out for only 31 games despite having surgery a month before training camp began with the bizarro world shot that went down with Kawhi this year???

Seriously??

FTR, he has since played in 80+ games each of the last three seasons...the only player to do so. Also, he is the only player to have played all 82 games last year for the Spurs.

Comparison ing fail.

The point is he's trash and still got paid. Undersized shooting guard who used to be quite the chucker.

[RD2191]

No, that was his bargain deal signed in 2014. It was 3yrs/$9M.

Well , makes it even worse. He's been trash the past few seasons.

[Chinook]

Do you guys at least agree that if Kawhi is 100% healthy going forward, that it would be extremely egregious if the Spurs don't even offer the Supermax?

If Kawhi is healthy, he's a top 3 player on the planet. Would the Spurs be stupid enough to not offer it even in that scenario?

I support the Spurs entertaining trading Kawhi if they can't come to a deal they feel comfortable offering. You just can't trust Kawhi's team anymore. Dude's picked up little injuries (niggles, as Baynes called them) his whole career. Is he going to start missing a ton of time for those too? And what does 100-percent healthy even mean? Like he feel no pain? This thing has been flaring up for years. Just because Kawhi feel comfortable now doesn't mean it won't come back. No. The supermax was such a ing awful addition to the CBA. Literally, only two players are in situations where the DPE isn't scaring the ever-living out of their clubs. Kawhi wouldn't join them there.

It was always an open question as to whether a fully healthy and engaged Kawhi was worth the DPE. That's how bad that contract really is under the current cap environment. That he either can't play with pain or is willing to bull his team for a whole year to secure an extension he hasn't earned is quite a bit more to get over.

[r0drig0lac]

He walks if they even think of lowballing him. Whether it be via trade or in free agency next year.

You weren't stingy with money when negotiating with all the scrubs on this roster. You won't be stingy with the guy carrying this team.

[Chinook]

What haul do you think the Spurs could realistically get that is worth washing your hands of Leonard? Given that the injury question is already out there which could lead to teams lowballing the Spurs in any trade they make with them.

A healthy and happy Kawhi was worth more than any team could provide since the Sixers differentiated their pick last summer (meaning that first-overall, Simmons and Embiid was the only possible package to make the team move Leonard at his peak value). His injury and disguntledness is the only reason we're even speculating about it. That said, I don't think Kawhi represents the same risk to other teams than he would to SA. No one besides SA can give Kawhi a DPE contract or even extend him this year. They'll have time to evaluate Kawhi and an out if he never comes back. And even if he does, they'll be able to get him for tens of millions less than the DPE-max.

As far as what package works, it really depends on what's going on with him. A Kawhi who's going to be Grant Hill wouldn't take much to move on from. That kind of player isn't going to carry a team to a le.

[weeks]

Spur s supporting a pussy who quit on the Spurs

[exstatic]

What haul do you think the Spurs could realistically get that is worth washing your hands of Leonard? Given that the injury question is already out there which could lead to teams lowballing the Spurs in any trade they make with them.

There's a sucker born every minute - PT Barnum

Seriously, there are NBA GMs that wear beer goggles and squint when it comes to like this. All it takes is one, and I suspect there will be several.

[RD2191]

The only quitter on the Spurs is the got in your avi.

[SpursforSix]

There's a sucker born every minute - PT Barnum

Seriously, there are NBA GMs that wear beer goggles and squint when it comes to like this. All it takes is one, and I suspect there will be several.

Parker contract, Mills contract, Gasol contract...

Unfortunately, it's easy to identify one of those suckers

[DPG21920]

From what I've been able to gather, the Spurs cannot include any incentives in Kawhi's extension. Maybe DPG21920 or another avid tweeter on here can reach out to Mark Deeks or Larry Coon or another cap guy and confirm. But it seems like the best compromise for both sides is to give Kawhi a deal with max incentives so that Kawhi gets a deal worth well more than the any other team could give if he returns to form but doesn't break the bank too much if he doesn't.

Provided that my understanding of incentives is incorrect, this is the contract I'd pitch:

Year	2019	2020	2021	2022	2023		Total	Average
Total	$37,117,500	$34,148,100	$34,148,100	$37,117,500	$40,086,900		$182,618,100	$36,523,620
Base	$31,815,000	$29,269,805	$29,269,805	$31,815,005	$34,360,206		$156,529,821	$31,305,964
Incentives	$5,302,500	$4,878,295	$4,878,295	$5,302,495	$5,726,694		$26,088,279	$5,217,656

Contrast that with a max offer from another team:

Year	2019	2020	2021	2022		Total	Average
Total	$31,815,000	$33,405,750	$34,996,500	$36,587,250		$136,804,500	$34,201,125

$20 Million more guaranteed with the upside of $46 Million more. If he gets a PO in that final year, he'd make more in the first four seasons anyway if he plays at the caliber he used to. If he doesn't, SA gets him for a large but manageable contract. We're talking $60 Million less over the five seasons. Even if he's MVP caliber each year of the deal, SA saves about $33 Million over the life of the deal.

I have no problem doing some Twitter digging/clarifying, but how do you want me to frame my question(s)? The only part I’m confused on is whether SA can offer Kawhi either the DPE or a let’s call it a “non-DPE” max extension. I know within the DPE contract, they can mirror that “other” extension, but it would still be subject to the DPE rules/guidelines.

If they can offer Kawhi the same non-DPE max extension as say another team could if he were to be traded and bird-rights along with it, that is a differen set of rules/restrictions.

But let me know how you would like the question(s) framed and I will do some digging.

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi is “healthy” and that news comes out and he just wants out of SA no matter what he will get a ton of return. Because his non-Spurs max is so much less, even with no contingency for the other team, is so much lower than SA would have to pay.

[DPG21920]

I also think that if SA just matched what Kawhi could get if traded (179M) that it should be more than enough. So SA is expected to pay $219M but Kawhi will play for another team for $179?

DPE is artificial. Offering Kawhi $179M isn’t a discount: it’s the MAX another team can offer and SA can do it now.

[cjw]

Can they offer a declining deal but allow him to make it up in incentives if he plays enough games?

[Chinook]

Can they offer a declining deal but allow him to make it up in incentives if he plays enough games?

Can't use that as an incentive. Also can only make 15 percent incentives.

[Chinook]

I have no problem doing some Twitter digging/clarifying, but how do you want me to frame my question(s)? The only part I’m confused on is whether SA can offer Kawhi either the DPE or a let’s call it a “non-DPE” max extension. I know within the DPE contract, they can mirror that “other” extension, but it would still be subject to the DPE rules/guidelines.

If they can offer Kawhi the same non-DPE max extension as say another team could if he were to be traded and bird-rights along with it, that is a differen set of rules/restrictions.

But let me know how you would like the question(s) framed and I will do some digging.

Ask if new incentives can be added into DPE vet extensions.

[TD 21]

From what I've been able to gather, the Spurs cannot include any incentives in Kawhi's extension. Maybe DPG21920 or another avid tweeter on here can reach out to Mark Deeks or Larry Coon or another cap guy and confirm. But it seems like the best compromise for both sides is to give Kawhi a deal with max incentives so that Kawhi gets a deal worth well more than the any other team could give if he returns to form but doesn't break the bank too much if he doesn't.

Provided that my understanding of incentives is incorrect, this is the contract I'd pitch:

Year	2019	2020	2021	2022	2023		Total	Average
Total	$37,117,500	$34,148,100	$34,148,100	$37,117,500	$40,086,900		$182,618,100	$36,523,620
Base	$31,815,000	$29,269,805	$29,269,805	$31,815,005	$34,360,206		$156,529,821	$31,305,964
Incentives	$5,302,500	$4,878,295	$4,878,295	$5,302,495	$5,726,694		$26,088,279	$5,217,656

Contrast that with a max offer from another team:

Year	2019	2020	2021	2022		Total	Average
Total	$31,815,000	$33,405,750	$34,996,500	$36,587,250		$136,804,500	$34,201,125

$20 Million more guaranteed with the upside of $46 Million more. If he gets a PO in that final year, he'd make more in the first four seasons anyway if he plays at the caliber he used to. If he doesn't, SA gets him for a large but manageable contract. We're talking $60 Million less over the five seasons. Even if he's MVP caliber each year of the deal, SA saves about $33 Million over the life of the deal.

The only way he'd accept that, is if he knows for a fact that he won't ever be the same player again. Even if that is more likely than not, I highly doubt he'd be willing to concede that at this point. Athletes are often in denial; it's part of their DNA.

That's nearly $36.4M less than the DPE in a best case scenario. Lesser players, with similarly checkered injury histories (Westbrook and Wall) were given the DPE.

Also, this is also not an appealing situation. The only other certifiable core piece, is a player who turns 33 in the off season and they're not a free agency destination for superstars and most stars.

I also think that if SA just matched what Kawhi could get if traded (179M) that it should be more than enough. So SA is expected to pay $219M but Kawhi will play for another team for $179?

DPE is artificial. Offering Kawhi $179M isn’t a discount: it’s the MAX another team can offer and SA can do it now.

Principle. It's the fact that the Spurs could offer significantly more and have a long history with him.

[DPG21920]

Sure, but no player came off a year-long injury and got that DPE. Especially not with the “other” stuff as well.

[TD 21]

Sure, but no player came off a year-long injury and got that DPE. Especially not with the “other” stuff as well.

I know. But you asked why they'd be expected to pay significantly more.

He's also better than Westbrook and Wall . . . before you intimate that he has to reprove it, I'm sure his representation would argue the opposite. They'd also argue the "other" stuff was more so the Spurs doing.

[DPG21920]

I know. But you asked why they'd be expected to pay significantly more.

He's also better than Westbrook and Wall . . . before you intimate that he has to reprove it, I'm sure his representation would argue the opposite. They'd also argue the "other" stuff was more so the Spurs doing.

Then bye. Also, John Wall got 170M.