Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 60
  1. #26
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    12,916
    Then I wouldn't call it an option when both sides lose.



    That would set the tone...Also, it would tell other players/agents that the Spurs' way is too hard and inflexible. Many talented FAs would want to find a more friendly franchise.

    I laughed when other franchises couldn't keep their best players...I laughed when Jazz refused to give Harwayd the max in 2014..When OKC traded Harden. Now, other fans are laughing of the Spurs losing Kawhi...This works like that Jef fMcDonald's tweet "it's their turn"
    Spurs have never attracted A list FA's outside of LMA. Spurs will continue to get the typical FA's that they have always gotten which is young unproven players or old vets who are pass their primes. You laughed when the Jazz refused to give Hayward the Max? Wow for me personally I always felt Hayward was overrated and not even worth building a team around. I thought when Hayward walked away from the Jazz last summer it was actually a positive for the Jazz since they never going anywhere with Hayward being their franchise player. So who else did you laugh at for losing their best players? I'm just curious. Honestly shocked that you give a about opposing fans laughing at the Spurs but then again you are still kid so that stuff will bother you. TBH from what I have seen on realgm and other forums are the majority of fans actually feel Kawhi is screwing over the Spurs. The only fans I see who are pro-Kawhi are Laker fans and Sixers fans and that's because they feel their teams will land him.

  2. #27
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,203
    Then I wouldn't call it an option when both sides lose.



    That would set the tone...Also, it would tell other players/agents that the Spurs' way is too hard and inflexible. Many talented FAs would want to find a more friendly franchise.

    I laughed when other franchises couldn't keep their best players...I laughed when Jazz refused to give Harwayd the max in 2014..When OKC traded Harden. Now, other fans are laughing of the Spurs losing Kawhi...This works like that Jef fMcDonald's tweet "it's their turn"
    Sure it sucks. But like it or not, it is an option; even if it’s unlikely. If Kawhi wants to be a jerk, he will lose too. I don’t personally think it goes that far, but if Kawhi thinks he can bully SA he’s wrong.

    Also I explained the PR battle situation. That is not really a concern. Kawhi has already lost the PR battle. Agents and teams and players have done business with SA. The only agent burned here is an agent with zero clout or players other than Kawhi. So that is not a concern IMO.

  3. #28
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Post Count
    5,962
    Kawhi doesnt want to leave, and is being traded...if he was healthy and purposefully sat out like the conspiracy theorists claim, this would only hurt him...additionally he could have simply asked out while playing like everyone else...tje guyvwas legit worried about his health...he will be a spur...dont be stupid

  4. #29
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    6,332
    If his value is low enough to the point where they have to do this, there is nothing more to lose. But even if SA thinks long-term that he won’t be the same player but he’s 90% after playing some teams will up their offers. He may end up 70% 3 years from now, but that won’t show up playing 20 games now.
    The Spurs aren't getting great offers because the last images GMs had of Kawhi on court are those 9 games in the season, he wasn't even close to the MVP candidate they watched a year ago.

    If 9 games didn't make a difference, I doubt that 20 games will change it

    You are also assuming the injury is the reason or only reason for not getting the SuperMax. I can see your perspective some if you believe that but I believe that is only part of the reason why he’s not likely to get the SM deal.
    In my post I said "was one of the reasons". Granted, I think it was the biggest reason, money fixes any deteriorating relationship but can't improve an injury.

  5. #30
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    6,332
    Also I explained the PR battle situation. That is not really a concern. Kawhi has already lost the PR battle. Agents and teams and players have done business with SA. The only agent burned here is an agent with zero clout or players other than Kawhi. So that is not a concern IMO.
    This makes me wonder what top players have done bussiness with SA. LMA was the only one and had issues to stay after just one-two years.

    Losing Kawhi, Pop isn't getting younger...Unlike you, I think it would be a big concern in the future.

  6. #31
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    6,332
    Honestly shocked that you give a about opposing fans laughing at the Spurs.
    Have to agree with you on this one.
    TBH from what I have seen on realgm and other forums are the majority of fans actually feel Kawhi is screwing over the Spurs. The only fans I see who are pro-Kawhi are Laker fans and Sixers fans and that's because they feel their teams will land him.
    Well, I didn't read other forums nor realgm. I'm just on Tw/IG/FB and watch some TV shows, listen sports' shows on radio...
    I only can say that after Brian Windhorst saying LBJ would want to play with him and that NBPA article, I saw more fans willing to give Kawhi the benefit of doubt.

  7. #32
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    8,146
    Since kawhi helps himself out of both playing and taking any press age can't get the pr battle. What the Spurs wanted to alienate their best player? GTFO

    Even the most pro kawhi explanation can't explain the lack of media exposure. It's ing off-season, do an interview, his agent/Uncle is so ty for allowing it to come to this.

  8. #33
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Post Count
    10,605
    There is too much money on the line to not try to come to a reasonable deal.

  9. #34
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    6,332
    What the Spurs wanted to alienate their best player? GTFO
    Jabari Young said this three months ago.


    The Spurs knew it. They didn't want to do it but let it happened.

    They trusted so much in things that worked before with other people instead of trying to adapt some part of their old school way to new generations.

  10. #35
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    12,916
    Have to agree with you on this one.

    Well, I didn't read other forums nor realgm. I'm just on Tw/IG/FB and watch some TV shows, listen sports' shows on radio...
    I only can say that after Brian Windhorst saying LBJ would want to play with him and that NBPA article, I saw more fans willing to give Kawhi the benefit of doubt.
    TW-FB-IG is flooded with casual idiots and those same people tend to be bandwagon fans so of course it doesn't shock me they would be supporting Kawhi because they probably feel their team has a chance at him. Got to factor teams like the Lakers have the largest fanbase on those forums you mentioned and their voice is going to drown out the voices of other fans. at Lebron stans supporting Kawhi only because they feel Kawhi can help Lebron pad his ring count. TV/Radio will be pro-Kawhi simply because they want Kawhi in a big market which gives them more stuff to hype up and talk about. It reminds me of how the media became pro-Rodman once he joined the bulls and crafted a bs narrative in which David Robinson was an overbearing religious nutcase that bullied Rodman who was actually a good guy at heart.

  11. #36
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,203
    Kawhi has been blasted by a ton of former players on TV shows and there is a thread dedicated to twitter posts being very harsh on Kawhi.

  12. #37
    Believe. DaBears's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Post Count
    926
    Kawhi has been blasted by a ton of former players on TV shows and there is a thread dedicated to twitter posts being very harsh on Kawhi.
    I would take the word of former NBA players, before i take word of causal fans, reason being players know the games that are being played behind the scenes.. So if they see that something stinks, i'll tend to lean with their opinions .. Even if they're missing some parts of story, or in-depth knowledge of the situation.

  13. #38
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    9,550
    Jabari Young said this three months ago.


    The Spurs knew it. They didn't want to do it but let it happened.

    They trusted so much in things that worked before with other people instead of trying to adapt some part of their old school way to new generations.
    Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a le. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

    And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

    I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.

  14. #39
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    8,146
    We're dealing with a rich mans Royce white scenario. NBA didn't come hard to keep him in the NBA so I don't think they cry about kawhi too much. Now granted, kawhi was a much bigger player, but it's so rich that people be blasting pop and company for being out of touch, when it's kawhi who broke the rule book about diva behavior.

  15. #40
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Post Count
    9,613
    Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a le. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

    And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

    I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.
    This. Kawhi expects the Spurs to give him everything they can, why shouldn't the Spurs expect the same from Kawhi?

  16. #41
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,203
    I would take the word of former NBA players, before i take word of causal fans, reason being players know the games that are being played behind the scenes.. So if they see that something stinks, i'll tend to lean with their opinions .. Even if they're missing some parts of story, or in-depth knowledge of the situation.
    I was not trying to say take fans words for things. I was making a point regarding the PR battle with all of this on how virtually all levels Kawhi’s team has lost that battle.

  17. #42
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    6,332
    Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a le. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

    And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

    I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.
    1-I truly believe Kawhi had a legit reason to sit, he was injured.

    2-Until the Spurs drafted Kyle, Kawhi was the younger player on the team for many years...I like this old article talking about how much he wanted to be a positive leader since 2016.

    Esp last part "he quietly deferred during the early portion of his career to Duncan, Parker and Ginobili while waiting in the wings for his role to gradually increase."

    http://www.espn.com/blog/san-antonio...ame-leadership

    It's hard to think this was his team last season with two HOFers still there...

    The good thing is that thing started to change, Kawhi kept in contact with his younger teammates all season and finally players could see a mentor in him.
    The bad thing is that Parker/Manu aren't part of this relationship and all team was in a weird place after the "meeting"...having to support the locker room old leaders or Kawhi. Gasol opted to pick Manu/Parker side, Brandon and Danny still supported Kawhi in public.
    Last edited by YGWHI; 05-22-2018 at 11:20 AM.

  18. #43
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Post Count
    3,517
    Look at it as a relationship thing vs a value thing. Kawhi healthy has immense value. A ton. But this is about leverage/relationship.

    Both parties have leverage over each other to varying degrees:

    1) Kawhi can hurt the Spurs by playing hard ball and telling teams that try to trade for him that he will sit out and/or will not re-sign. That really limits what the Spurs will get in return. That doesn’t mean an OKC like team won’t take a swing, but even that is reduced value compared to if he has a wide list of teams and plays good soldier to let SA work a good deal that fits both parties well.

    2) Spurs can say to Kawhi, we could have offered 219M but you and your team messed up and if you continue to act like a jerk we will just hold you and force you to walk to a team in free agency which means going down to 140M contract from where you could have had 219M. SA trading Kawhi means he can get 180M so they have 40M in leverage there outside of the additional 40M SuperMax.

    So if both play hard ball they can hurt each other but if they play somewhat nice they should be able to find a decent enough deal. Just depends on the relationship and how much money Kawhi is willing to cost himself.
    Actually, if the relationship is REALLY gone bad, you are underestimating the Spurs leverage. If SAS doesn't get a good enough offer, and he continues to be "not medically cleared", they can wait for a while, and then sue him for breach of contract (ie pulling a medical holdout), and a) ask for 2017-2018 and 18-19's salary back, and b) damages for breach of contract. That locks him up in court to a point where I suspect he would be nearly unemployable in the NBA (due to the contractual/legal factors), especially if they ask for more damages for him deliberately destroying his trade value...

  19. #44
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Post Count
    5,962
    Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a le. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

    And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

    I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.
    So this season erased everything he has done so far? How isn't he a leader from his mvp season till last year?

  20. #45
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Post Count
    5,962
    Actually, if the relationship is REALLY gone bad, you are underestimating the Spurs leverage. If SAS doesn't get a good enough offer, and he continues to be "not medically cleared", they can wait for a while, and then sue him for breach of contract (ie pulling a medical holdout), and a) ask for 2017-2018 and 18-19's salary back, and b) damages for breach of contract. That locks him up in court to a point where I suspect he would be nearly unemployable in the NBA (due to the contractual/legal factors), especially if they ask for more damages for him deliberately destroying his trade value...
    Very stupid take... Can't sue for a medical holdout in this case

  21. #46
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Post Count
    71,514
    Very stupid take... Can't sue for a medical holdout in this case
    you have doctors on both sides who say he could or could not play

    and both sides have big money
    what side gets best lawer

  22. #47
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    9,550
    1-I truly believe Kawhi had a legit reason to sit, he was injured.

    2-Until the Spurs drafted Kyle, Kawhi was the younger player on the team for many years...I like this old article talking about how much he wanted to be a positive leader since 2016.

    Esp last part "he quietly deferred during the early portion of his career to Duncan, Parker and Ginobili while waiting in the wings for his role to gradually increase."

    http://www.espn.com/blog/san-antonio...ame-leadership

    It's hard to think this was his team last season with two HOFers still there...

    The good thing is that thing started to change, Kawhi kept in contact with his younger teammates all season and finally players could see a mentor in him.
    The bad thing is that Parker/Manu aren't part of this relationship and all team was in a weird place after the "meeting"...having to support the locker room old leaders or Kawhi. Gasol opted to pick Manu/Parker side, Brandon and Danny still supported Kawhi in public.
    When the offense runs through you, you are the team leader. Spurs did everything they could to establish him as the leader since 2014. It doesn't seem like part of his personality, but if you get super maxed, there are responsibilities that come with getting paid like that.

    I don't think the vets criticized him heavily. At most, there was Parker talking about his injury, but even that wasn't as harsh as people want to make it sound. And it's hard to fault Manu and Parker for feeling like Kawhi should play given: (1) they played injured many times in their career; (2) they are at the tail end of their careers and they knew how much Kawhi was needed for them to continue to be contenders; and (3) they felt duty bound to play and play their best and win for the veterans on their teams.

    That said, I think a lot of the turmoil could have been prevented with them being more open about what is going on instead of acting weird by keeping silent and running to NY to rehab and allowing rumors about wanting to go to LA permeate the media. I've seen people insinuate that a player wants to go somewhere and then have that player come out and call BS on the rumor. Kawhi never did that. So maybe it's true. I guess we'll see.

  23. #48
    Veteran superbigtime's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Post Count
    3,213
    Spurs treated him respectfully the entire season. PATFO and players alike.

  24. #49
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    10,259
    The league being what it is, if Kawhi plays this out to leaving the Spurs, I would not doubt if he never sees another favorable call. This is not because of the fans but rather the litany of former and present players who feel he is out of line. No one will come to his defense.

  25. #50
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    9,550
    So this season erased everything he has done so far? How isn't he a leader from his mvp season till last year?
    When he went off the reservation this year, he didn't act like a leader. And before you pay him 35% of the salary cap, you better make sure he's 100% invested in being a leader because his salary will tie up your ability to improve the roster in a way that Patty Mills' or Pau Gasol's or Tony Parker's salaries do not. If all the chatter is coming from his camp about wanting to be in a big market or wanting practices to change, etc., that's not a positive sign that you should pay him $$$$. I don't see him as the Melo (get a big contract and then whine your way to where you really want to play), but I never though last season would go the way it did when I dropped $$$$ to see a bunch of home games.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •