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  1. #121
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    An intentional check swing to foul a pitch off is one thing. I'm more talking about an obvious accidental wind up or safe, slow bat turn that somehow not only finds its way into play but ends up as a hit.

    Those are rare but an example of baseball's fluke circumstance. Many hits are about skill but many are just luck/chance and the exact same for outs. The point is that these even out over time thanks to quantity. But there's very little quantity in the playoffs, which is why the best teams from the season basically have a 50/50 shot in any game despite often having the better overall team.
    That might be the case, but it's because of the skill gap differences. The top 6 teams will usually have comparable pitching staff and offensive talent. In basketball, there's really only 3 or 4 players who can be said to be championship centerpieces in any given era. The talent gap in baseball won't be as large between the team with the best record and the wild card winner as it is between the 1st and 8th seed in the NBA. Paradox of Skill. Closer talent is in skill, luck plays a bigger role. I'm just countering the idea that whether or not a pitch winds up a good pitch or contact winds up a hit is a random event. It's really not. For us at the batting cages, yes, which is where I think a lot of the misconception about hitting comes from. We us average Joes go to the cages, we're basically just swinging wildly and send the ball unpredictably all over the place. Major league hitting doesn't work like that. They do have a plan and are trying to specific things.
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  2. #122
    Santschi ♥ FkLA's Avatar
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    Nothing changes the fact that baseball is just flat out more expensive to play and requires more space, which not all third world communities have easy access to, despite your cherry picks. I'm not suggesting baseball would be the world's sport or anything if it were cheaper, just that soccer is the "world's sport" for many reasons other than this biased subjective notion that it's inherently "more fun" to play than all other sports. I find that opinion arrogant (not mention an appeal to the popularity fallacy), as if soccer is some flawless gift from the heavens that naturally captivates everyone and anyone as soon as they play it.
    Ok, let's say fatball is slightly more expensive. What exactly is the point of mentioning that when poor caribbean kids still find a way to play it? Poor Venezuelan kids do too. Yet you want to talk about arrogance?

    I'm not the one that made the comment that soccer is inherently "more fun". But it's also pretty dumb to think soccer has become as big as it has globally because it's cheap to play and because of British imperialism.
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  3. #123
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Ironic. Most poor countries aren't as densely populated as Brazilian favelas are. That's cherry picking.
    The most populated areas in poor countries tend to be urban areas with high population densities. The rural areas where the space is at aren't as populated, and access to these areas by some type of vehicle isn't in the cards for the poor people who live in those urban areas.

  4. #124
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Ok, let's say fatball is slightly more expensive. What exactly is the point of mentioning that when poor caribbean kids still find a way to play it? Poor Venezuelan kids do too. Yet you want to talk about arrogance?

    I'm not the one that made the comment that soccer is inherently "more fun". But it's also pretty dumb to think soccer has become as big as it has globally because it's cheap to play and because of British imperialism.
    Yeah, that idea is so "dumb" they turned a convoluted sport like cricket into the 2nd most popular sport in the world (there's the India factor, but even if you remove India, the cricket player base would still be about half-a-billion). And yes, the cheapest things (even if that cheap thing is a dollar less expensive) tend to be more accessible.

    A lot of those poor baseball countries are subsidized by MLB initiatives that set up fields, provide equipment, etc.

    Which sport is fatball? American football?

  5. #125
    Santschi ♥ FkLA's Avatar
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    The most populated areas in poor countries tend to be urban areas with high population densities. The rural areas where the space is at aren't as populated, and access to these areas by some type of vehicle isn't in the cards for the poor people who live in those urban areas.
    So there aren't any big fields within urban areas in other poor countries? All of them are set up like Brazilian favelas are?

  6. #126
    Believe.
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    It's cheap to play and there are heroes for young kids. There's basically no baseball players outside the Americas and almost none south of the Amazon. You've got a hotspot in East Asia outside the People's Republic and that's pretty much every baseball playing country in the world.
    Last edited by Caltex2; 2 Days Ago at 11:43 PM.

  7. #127
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    So there aren't any big fields within urban areas in other poor countries? All of them are set up like Brazilian favelas are?
    If the urban sprawl in 3rd world countries works like it does in the US, then yeah, big fields are harder to come by. The point is a couple of kids can play a decent game of soccer on the narrow street right outside of their house before dinner. To play baseball and have any fun with it, you need an area where you can at least hit the ball hard, since the thing kids most enjoy about baseball is batting and seeing how far they can hit. In my neighborhood, there's one spot in about a 10 block radius that's simply decent for baseball, and not real baseball or even tennis ball baseball, but something like whiffle ball. There's multiple areas where you can play soccer. There's these grass dividers (about 60 feet wide) that run for about 2 miles. Baseball is a no go. Too narrow, cars and houses nearby. Perfect for soccer.

  8. #128
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    It's cheap to play and there are heroes for young kids. There's basically no baseball players outside the Americas and almost none south of the Amazon. You've got a hotspot in East Asia outside the People's Republic and that's pretty much every baseball playing country in the world.
    Soccer also has the advantage of the busy work factor. Even if a kid totally sucks, he can still have a degree of "fun" running around and chasing the ball and kicking it around. A shitty kid will not have any fun playing baseball. He will most likely not even get a foul tip over the course of the Little League season and fuck up every ball hit to him. Seen it myself. I remember this kid who struck out EVERY time up, and the one time he fouled a ball, it was like a fuckin' miracle. There was another kid who did the same and then in his last at bat of the season laced a double. We all cheered him on and coach gave him the game ball. On that point, I will admit that sports like soccer have more of an inherent fun factor than bat-and-ball sports, since bat-and-ball sports (cricket, baseball) punish skill deficiency a lot more than goal sports. I just don't think soccer is that much different conceptually than sports like basketball, handball, Gaelic, Aussie rules, etc, so the reason it ascended over the sports has to do with other factors than soccer just being "more fun to play."

  9. #129
    Believe. pookenstein's Avatar
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    Why does the world love it?

    I don't think Americans hate soccer generally speaking. I bought the very first FIFA back in '94. I continued to buy soccer video games up until about '99. I've watched every World Cup to some degree since '94 (wont' be watching this year). I simply don't think the sport is worth investing time in over US sports (which I find better designed, and which is an opinion I can write a fuckin' dissertation on vs. soccer, so me turning my nose up at soccer isn't out of Murrican pride). If I'm going to invest time into a soccer-like sport, it would be something like Gaelic or Aussie Rules (more of a Rugby-like sport), which I find better designed. My opinion is that soccer is one sport of many and unlike soccer nuts, I don't think the sport is some proverbial gift from God that is intrinsically superior to other sports.

    And no, appeal to popularity is a fallacy. It grew through British imperialism, not because the peoples of the world "saw the light." And if you don't think that was a factor, the Brits managed to make a sport you would find more boring than baseball the 2nd most popular in the world.

    rest of the world embracing the NFL? On what planet? They hate it. I get it's popular in Mexico and Canada, but most other countries find it slow, plodding, unskillful, and absolutely despise the fact we call it "football," (even though American football has more of a right to be called football than soccer does).
    LMFAO. The time you invest to "educate"/debate/troll the guys around here alone, everytime a Football vs American Football/Baseball thread opens up, says otherwise.
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  10. #130
    GOAT PF Silver&Black's Avatar
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  11. #131
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    LMFAO. The time you invest to "educate"/debate/troll the guys around here alone, everytime a Football vs American Football/Baseball thread opens up, says otherwise.
    Lol. I don't even bring up soccer in those debates. And it's not usually soccer vs baseball anyway, but posters saying dumb shit about baseball, etc that bring me in.

  12. #132
    Less is More
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    Lol. I don't even bring up soccer in those debates. And it's not usually soccer vs baseball anyway, but posters saying dumb shit about baseball, etc that bring me in.
    Baseball is what you do if you cant play football soccer basketball track or hockey.

  13. #133
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Baseball is what you do if you cant play football soccer basketball track or hockey.
    That's why there's many more instances of athletes washing out of pro baseball and doing better in another sport than the other way around.

  14. #134
    Believe. pookenstein's Avatar
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    Lol. I don't even bring up soccer in those debates. And it's not usually soccer vs baseball anyway, but posters saying dumb shit about baseball, etc that bring me in.
    Doesn't matter who brings Football up. You can't resist replying, often in good length. For that you have to invest time in the sport because you want to make a point. By the way, I don't have a problem with you/your takes although I'm a big Football Fan (even work for the German FA) and think that Baseball is boring as fuck...

  15. #135
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter who brings Football up. You can't resist replying, often in good length. For that you have to invest time in the sport because you want to make a point. By the way, I don't have a problem with you/your takes although I'm a big Football Fan (even work for the German FA) and think that Baseball is boring as fuck...
    Those lengthy replies are talking about baseball not soccer. Read the replies instead of assuming it's something about soccer vs. baseball.

  16. #136
    Believe. pookenstein's Avatar
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    Those lengthy replies are talking about baseball not soccer. Read the replies instead of assuming it's something about soccer vs. baseball.
    I've read quite a few. And they're not all talking about Baseball. Some have been about Football, in some you compared Football (& players) with Baseball/American Footall (players), which takes an investment of time...

  17. #137
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    Soccer's in a weird spot in the US. It's definitely got grass root growth because fuck having your kid getting multiple concussions playing football. But the USMNT is an absolute embarrassment right now, so no World Cup bump until the women play. The way to make real money is still through TV, and soccer is the absolute worst sport for TV outside of cricket. Also, TV is just going away as something people watch in general, so now what? PPV/subscription is the best way to view but free ad-supported streaming looks to be the future for most. Again, it's a question of monetizing the game for American viewers as is or changing the game to accommodate the way people want to view it. Some indoor leagues tried the latter IIRC, but where are they now?

    Good luck.

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