Kawhi Leonard “Injury Diagnosis”

[coachmac87]

So what is it? What caused him to miss 73 games? And is it normal to do so?

You can bash PATFO and the Spurs if you want but explain to me the injury diagnosis first and how Spurs are in the wrong because of it?

[KimmyGib]

I raised a similar question in another thread and was offered a couple explanations which make a lot of sense regarding the injury and the part it's played.

I think he was definitely hurt in the off-season and probably to start the season, it seems like everybody agrees with that and there wasn't any real bad blood at the time..they gave him time to figure things out, at least from a mental standpoint..

It's very evident that he sat out the 2nd half of the season for non-basketball reasons, though, that isn't even debatable IMO..everything we have heard these past 2 weeks adds up, it's a money issue, SA is reluctant to supermax him..there's NO WAY that Parker and Ginobili make those public comments(which they wouldn't have made without Pop co-signing) if that wasn't the case, it doesn't make any sense to jeopardize the team's relationship with its franchise cornerstone simply over a dispute over the diagnosis of an injury..the only reason that narrative got any play was because the Isiah Thomas situation(which was very rare, too) was so fresh in everybody's mind..

IMO the only consistent factors here are 1- Supermax/money dispute 2- As Woj reported, Kawhi's team is very disorganized and constantly changing their story

It's not a coincidence that Kawhi's team leaked that they were working things out and a meeting was imminent to discuss money, but then all of a sudden it's leaked that he is going to demand a trade

If the Spurs and Kawhi had agreed on the money, I bet none of this would have happened IMO..it's all been leverage game since then..misdiagnosis of injury, doesn't like the roster, mad about the way Pop is approaching things, furious that Parker and Ginobili made comments through the media

All narratives to save face, they are fully aware of how the public reacts to athletes regarding money disputes..I mostly disagree with the way fans view athletes and their money(especially in the NBA and NFL), I find it strange that they generally side with management over the employees, but I understand, I suppose..

I appreciate your insight. Agreed, it doesn't make much sense. But does it make any less sense than for the Spurs to have been so reluctant to supermax him, unless the injury were a major factor? In other words, if it's all a money issue, then I'd think the injury must've played a key role in making it an issue to begin with, and therefore Kawhi may have been legitimately unfit to play all year.

It's $219 million, starting at 35% of cap and if the cap increase doesn't keep pace, could easily rise to over 35% of cap over 5 years...it's not exactly a good contract from the team's perspective unless everything is airtight...but it could be that the money topic never even came up with Kawhi's camp...I think (and this is pure speculation) the Spurs diagnosis of potentially degenerative quad was taken by Kawhi's uncle/agent as an excuse by the Spurs to lowball the supermax, or rather, not offer the supermax...and that's why they went and sought 2nd, and then 3rd opinion--and kept the Spurs at arm's length. The irony here is that the Spurs probably would have offered the supermax had everyone been on the same page since the team's stance has consistently been that the quad needs proper treatment and management...if any team understands managing the long term health of their franchise player, it's the Spurs...Duncan basically played on one leg for years and years...but because of subsequent actions by Kawhi's camp, the Spurs probably grew increasingly uncomfortable with offering the supermax and thus the public posturing.

[Pavlov]

Failing to comeback from an injury and blaming it on the team that can actually pay you the most is a poor negotiating tactic.

[cutewizard]

There is such a thing as professionalism, ethical behavior, and being classy.

Bill Russell is the epitome.

[Chillen]

I watched some highlights of the games he played in when he came back last season. He looked just fine.

[barbacoataco]

I think he's done. It's the type of chronic injury that can't be fixed and will always come back.

[baseline bum]

Didn't that got say he felt great when going to China last August? But then all of a sudden he lost faith in team doctors in August and went with his own?

[coachmac87]

The comments are nice but what’s the injury?

[Keepin' it real]

The comments are nice but what’s the injury?

The official medical term is I'm-faking-it-itis.

[PublicOption]

the Lakers should be hit with tampering.

[bdictjames]

i think the hair splitting iirc is if it’s a sick quad affecting the tendon (kawhis docs stance) or a sick tendon affecting the quad (spurs docs)

the treatment protocol and long term outlook is different for each

again, i think, without looking anything up, iirc etc

How could a sick quadriceps muscle affect the quadriceps tendon? That doesn't make much sense to me. How could a muscle be sick at the first place? It could either be myositis (inflammation of the muscle), or a strain (which easily heals up). The first one is usually from a hereditary trait (doubt it in this case as Kawhi has been playing since he was a kid). If that's what Kawhi's docs are saying, I want an explanation on how 1. The muscle got injured and 2. Why hasn't it healed.

I'll go with the Spurs docs on this one.

[exstatic]

The official medical term is vaginitis.

fify

[FkLA]

Didn't that got say he felt great when going to China last August? But then all of a sudden he lost faith in team doctors in August and went with his own?

I honestly think it has to do with the lowball Jordan offer he received. If he's marketable despite the small market (like Westbrook), and he gets a signature shoe and other endorsements I think he's still a Spur.

[daslicer]

I watched some highlights of the games he played in when he came back last season. He looked just fine.

Agreed. The last games I watched of him was against Phoenix and Denver and he looked pretty mobile in those games.

[toki9]

The comments are nice but what’s the injury?

Here is the relevant passage from the Ramona Shelburne/Michael Wright article ( http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-leonard-spurs ) :

"In conversations with multiple sources close to Leonard and the Spurs, there is some disagreement about the exact nature of the injury.

Leonard's camp believes his condition is the result of a series of contusions to the quadriceps that began with one very deep bruise in March 2016 that caused him to miss three games. Leonard was again listed with a "quad contusion" on the Feb. 6, 2017, injury report, when he was a late scratch before a game. But it wasn't until the end of last season when the severity of the injury became apparent.

According to multiple sources, Leonard's camp has come to believe the issue has more to do with an ossification, or hardening, in the area where the muscle has been repeatedly bruised, and then an atrophy, which in turn affected the tendons connecting the muscle to the knee.

The Spurs have always called the injury quadriceps tendinopathy, which is a disease of the tendon that has a degenerative effect on the muscle by keeping it in a constant state of exhaustion."

The thing is that if you go with Kawhi's camp's diagnosis, then he has played on that quad since March 2016...so the 2016 playoffs, all of the following season (the season in which he played career high 74 games and then the playoffs), then went to China (and was fine, per his sister) only to realize afterwards that he was hurt.

[lmbebo]

All this past year was crap. Injury was an excuse. Uncle Dennis pulling all this crap. Kwahi trusting his idiot uncle. Spurs played the games with his Uncle/Kwahi. Let him rehab, etc. He sat out. Power play.

And kind of tired of this dynamic between teams and players. Its got the undertones of owners and slaves vibe. Poor players have to be subservient to the rich owners, etc. And the fans who are the the power behind this all are an after thought ... Getting tired of this crap.

[toki9]

All this past year was crap. Injury was an excuse. Uncle Dennis pulling all this crap. Kwahi trusting his idiot uncle. Spurs played the games with his Uncle/Kwahi. Let him rehab, etc. He sat out. Power play.

And kind of tired of this dynamic between teams and players. Its got the undertones of owners and slaves vibe. Poor players have to be subservient to the rich owners, etc. And the fans who are the the power behind this all are an after thought ... Getting tired of this crap.

I think "fans" count less and less in this equation, at least, the "fans" who actually attend the games. Increasingly it's the broadcasting and marketing dollars driving the whole thing. There's just too much money at stake now.

[daslicer]

All this past year was crap. Injury was an excuse. Uncle Dennis pulling all this crap. Kwahi trusting his idiot uncle. Spurs played the games with his Uncle/Kwahi. Let him rehab, etc. He sat out. Power play.

And kind of tired of this dynamic between teams and players. Its got the undertones of owners and slaves vibe. Poor players have to be subservient to the rich owners, etc. And the fans who are the the power behind this all are an after thought ... Getting tired of this crap.

Jalen Rose during the playoffs tried to accuse Pop of being a racist for using the term group. Stuff like this is part of the reason why I would like to see the Spurs trade Kawhi to the Hornets. Let Jordan go at him and his uncle that way they won't be able to pull the race card bs.

[toki9]

Jalen Rose during the playoffs tried to accuse Pop of being a racist for using the term group. Stuff like this is part of the reason why I would like to see the Spurs trade Kawhi to the Hornets. Let Jordan go at him and his uncle that way they won't be able to pull the race card bs.

Really? So we went from Phil Jackson and his "Posse" comment about Lebron to Pop and the word "group"? And Pop is also the guy who's getting torched by some for his "politics"?

[spurraider21]

this is such a show. the raiders better be good this year

[daslicer]

Really? So we went from Phil Jackson and his "Posse" comment about Lebron to Pop and the word "group"? And Pop is also the guy who's getting torched by some for his "politics"?

Yeah it did happen. Jalen Rose during the pre-game show for a playoff game said that using the word group is racially offensive on the same level as posse. Mic e Beadle immediately interrupted him and said that she disagreed with him which ended the conversation.

[Pavlov]

Yeah it did happen. Jalen Rose during the pre-game show for a playoff game said that using the word group is racially offensive on the same level as posse. Mic e Beadle immediately interrupted him and said that she disagreed with him which ended the conversation.

lol what should we call them?

The Folks?

The Conglomeration?

The Other Team?

The Gathering?

The Hive?

Those Who Shall Not Be Named?

[boutons_deux]

I watched some highlights of the games he played in when he came back last season. He looked just fine.

several people here said he looked like trash

[tholdren]

There is such a thing as professionalism, ethical behavior, and being classy.

Bill Russell is the epitome.

Not in todays nba. No loyalty no professionalism = no rivalries which even makes lack of talent more evident

[phxspurfan]

Didn't that got say he felt great when going to China last August? But then all of a sudden he lost faith in team doctors in August and went with his own?

He did say he felt great. Then his camp floated rumors that he was developing another "super move". Then BSPN and the talking heads put him up as a consensus MVP candidate prior to the season. Then he had a massive panic attack and didn't want the spotlight that comes with carrying a team with high expectations. And he claimed a thigh owie with no tissue damage on an MRI was enough to force him to both miss basically the entire season and the playoffs. All while Parker, who tore the muscle off the bone in the playoffs the previous year, came back by end of November.