I hereby declare the Messi-Penaldo discussion oficially over

[FrostKing]

I agree he's been poor in 2024, in all compe ions. You're combining seasons though. He led Barca to their 1st LA Liga since '19 as top scorer. And this season the club is back in UCL KOs. Barca has steadily improved since he put on the kit.

Atletico (Muller missed penalty) and Villareal were his 1st and last UCL at Bayern. Fitting book ends.

I have a Muller kit but come on he's never done anything against Spain. Lewandowski scored at the recent Euros vs Espana for Polska too.

I'm confident he'll score one of those "meaningless" UCL goals yet again like he's done 91 times.

Kane is Top3 Striker today but Munich wears on foreigners. Lewy joined as rival and carried the Captaincy.

[DAF86]

Petty boy had to take home his 20th ballon. Well Lewy raised Barca out of the gutter he left it

The petty one is your boy, tbh. Messi was honest when he said he hoped France Football gave Lewandoski the Ballon D'or for the covid season, yet your boy came out all salty and implied Messi wasn't being honest.

[Hoops Czar]

And you are horribly wrong. We have stated that the Premier League has a more open style of play and teams score more goals. Also, playing along other superstars goes against your individual numbers, just like in the NBA. Messi would have scored more goals if he was the one taking penalties instead of Mbappe or if he didn't have to share free kicks with Neymar. PSG game style was also built for Mbappe being the finisher, while Messi played as a playmaker. All of this played agaisnt Messi getting more goals.

Your eyes deceive you. In 2022/23, the EPL (1084) scored a whopping 17 more goals than Ligue 1 (1067) in 760 games which roughly equates to 1.42 goals per game in the EPL to 1.40 average G/G in Ligue 1, despite your heavy handed claims that the EPL plays a more open style of play. Haaland played alongside two superstars in De Bruyne and Rodri and although he didn't play alongside a superstar striker, he played alongside some very good ones that suppressed his numbers as well. It also works both ways. Mbappe's assist numbers fell from 17 assist in '21/'22 to just 5 in '22/'23. Maybe that cost him his shot at Ballon d'Or.

If Messi played in City, under Pep and alongside Julián Alvarez, who compliments Messi's game like no other player, Lionel would have won another Golden Boot.

So, yeah, your argument has no merit at all.

And now you're playing both ends against the middle. You literally just said Messi's goal scoring numbers were stifled playing alongside two superstars in Neymar and Mbappe. What makes you think Messi, playing on a stacked City team featuring the likes of Haaland and Alvarez amongst others would sniff enough goals to win the golden boot?
Like his time spent at PSG, Messi would be a facilitator, complimenting De Bruyne in midfield.

Yeah, that's why no other player did what Messi did. If it were so easy to stat pad in Ligue 1, one would assume another guy would have done what Messi did.

You'll have to be a little more transparent. What exactly did Messi do? 16 G + 16 A in Ligue 1 was a neat accomplishment but Mbappe had 28 G + 17 A in 2021/22. Benzema walked away with Ballon d'Or that year for those keeping score at home.

You say they are worlds apart in terms of competation yet acknowledge that City dominates PL just as much, if not more, than PSG in Ligue 1. The season prior to Messi joining PSG, PSG didn't win the league, tbh.

They both dominate they're respective leagues. I don't know what makes you think that equates to equal compe ion. PSG has won Ligue 1 seven times in nine years.

And, like I said, you are laughably wrong. Swap Messi for Haaland in City, Messi would thrive under Pep's system, playing alongside Julian in a more open league. Not only he would get more stats, he would also have won it all.

While Haaland in PSG would have scored less because he would have needed to share finishing responsabilites with Mbappe, and he wouldn't have been the penalty taker.

This is all conjecture based on anecdotal evidence. Who wouldn't thrive in Pep's system. The EPL isn't as open as you're suggesting. See above. This just a typical fanboy response. His scoring would probably increase because he'd be eating all day long off De Bruyne's passes but his assists would go down. City pass the ball by committee, not by individual so I'm not expecting Messi to have to carry the ball up the field and create for himself and his teammates like at Barcelona and PSG. His workload would be much less especially with City's midfield of De Bruyne, Rodri and Gundogan last year.

No, Messi had a better all around season. He won just as much, but with a WC on top, and he produced numbers just as much as well. He also had more MOTMs across all compe ions and a better SOFA score. Any objective stat out there favours Messi over Haaland.

He won the WC. That's the only reason he won Ballon d'Or. 61 G+A for Haaland, 40 G+A for Messi across all compe ions. I don't even see how those numbers compare, tbh. If he loses the WC, he's not winning.

You mean the same French people who lost the WC final to Messi and booed him on the Ballon D'or Gala?

yeah, but the people who booed him didn't have a vote.

I don't know who are you arguing against here, but I never said playing for City went agaisnt Haaland, in fact, quite the opposite: the only reason Haaland ended 2nd is exactly because he played for City, which allowed him to score and win like he wouldn't in any other club.

Well, not entirely accurate. in '20/'21, Haaland scored 51 G+A playing for Dortmund despite missing 10 matches in Bundesliga. His numbers were pretty comparable across the board with the only difference being he won the treble with City.

[DAF86]

Your eyes deceive you. In 2022/23, the EPL (1084) scored a whopping 17 more goals than Ligue 1 (1067) in 760 games which roughly equates to 1.42 goals per game in the EPL to 1.40 average G/G in Ligue 1, despite your heavy handed claims that the EPL plays a more open style of play. Haaland played alongside two superstars in De Bruyne and Rodri and although he didn't play alongside a superstar striker, he played alongside some very good ones that suppressed his numbers as well. It also works both ways. Mbappe's assist numbers fell from 17 assist in '21/'22 to just 5 in '22/'23. Maybe that cost him his shot at Ballon d'Or.

Comparing Neymar and Mbappe to Rodri and DeBruyne. That's like comparing Kobe and Iverson to Stockton and Jason Kidd. Playing alongside whom, do you think a star would score more?

And now you're playing both ends against the middle. You literally just said Messi's goal scoring numbers were stifled playing alongside two superstars in Neymar and Mbappe. What makes you think Messi, playing on a stacked City team featuring the likes of Haaland and Alvarez amongst others would sniff enough goals to win the golden boot?
Like his time spent at PSG, Messi would be a facilitator, complimenting De Bruyne in midfield.

In my scenario Messi replaces Haaland.

You'll have to be a little more transparent. What exactly did Messi do? 16 G + 16 A in Ligue 1 was a neat accomplishment but Mbappe had 28 G + 17 A in 2021/22. Benzema walked away with Ballon d'Or that year for those keeping score at home.

First player from the French league to have a 20+/20+ season.

They both dominate they're respective leagues. I don't know what makes you think that equates to equal compe ion. PSG has won Ligue 1 seven times in nine years.

Both dominate their leagues, the difference is that City is the much better team and that proved to be an advantage on CL.

This is all conjecture based on anecdotal evidence. Who wouldn't thrive in Pep's system. The EPL isn't as open as you're suggesting. See above. This just a typical fanboy response. His scoring would probably increase because he'd be eating all day long off De Bruyne's passes but his assists would go down. City pass the ball by committee, not by individual so I'm not expecting Messi to have to carry the ball up the field and create for himself and his teammates like at Barcelona and PSG. His workload would be much less especially with City's midfield of De Bruyne, Rodri and Gundogan last year.

I also agree that his scoring would go up and his assists may decrease a bit, but casuals care about goals. That's why they scream "robbery", despite Messi having an excellent statistical season.

He won the WC. That's the only reason he won Ballon d'Or. 61 G+A for Haaland, 40 G+A for Messi across all compe ions. I don't even see how those numbers compare, tbh. If he loses the WC, he's not winning.

If Messi would have won the WC but nothing else, and he wouldn't have put up the numbers, he wouldn't have won the Golden Ball.

yeah, but the people who booed him didn't have a vote.

The people that vote are the coaches, captains and journalists from all the World, not from France only.

Well, not entirely accurate. in '20/'21, Haaland scored 51 G+A playing for Dortmund despite missing 10 matches in Bundesliga. His numbers were pretty comparable across the board with the only difference being he won the treble with City.

Those aren't the stats, I posted the stats a few pages back. You can't pick and choose the stats you want. For the voting of the Golden Ball, the official stats from FIFA are the ones that were taken into consideration.

[FrostKing]

Not sure Messi even wants to win ballon Dor at this point. Awkward reward.

They probably screwed Haaland because he can't raise it until their boy Mbappe does first

I'm European but yah most our is so contrived into lingering drama & unfinished business. Only our European Cup is decided fair & square.


I enjoyed this one in Berlin, with my brother in law. Near MauerPark. Multiple vantage points. Absolute British mayhem in the garden. After the Italians scored their first, you knew the young Brits would crumble.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Not sure Messi even wants to win ballon Dor at this point. Awkward reward.

They probably screwed Haaland because he can't raise it until their boy Mbappe does first

I'm European but yah most our is so contrived into lingering drama & unfinished business. Only our European Cup is decided fair & square.


I enjoyed this one in Berlin, with my brother in law. Near MauerPark. Multiple vantage points. Absolute British mayhem in the garden. After the Italians scored their first, you knew the young Brits would crumble.

video unavailable outside of your country

and messi winning WC has discussed to death in this thread is a very worthy reason of giving it over haaland. Even Haaland's teammates say messi deserved it.

[FrostKing]

video unavailable outside of your country

and messi winning WC has discussed to death in this thread is a very worthy reason of giving it over haaland. Even Haaland's teammates say messi deserved it.

Which country you sneaky boy

Video is Italia's comeback over England and heartbreaking ending at the Euros

I'll remember Messi/Argentina World Cup victory as them tapping into villian mode. Reminded me of Deutschland in 2014.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Which country you sneaky boy

Video is Italia's comeback over England and heartbreaking ending at the Euros

I'll remember Messi/Argentina World Cup victory as them tapping into villian mode. Reminded me of Deutschland in 2014.

I hated how Argentina behaved during the Netherlands match

Loved the rest though haha

I’m in Canada my man

[FrostKing]

I hated how Argentina behaved during the Netherlands match

Loved the rest though haha

I’m in Canada my man

Hahah I understand. Would love to visit Montreal

[DAF86]

I hated how Argentina behaved during the Netherlands match

Loved the rest though haha

I’m in Canada my man

Why? It was only retilation to what the Dutch did.



And even before the penalties, Weighorst entered the game with the sole purpose of stirring the pot. I love how the entire World wanted to blame the hot blooded third World country for what happened in this game when it was actually the morally superior Euros the ones that cause it all.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Why? It was only retilation to what the Dutch did.



And even before the penalties, Weighorst entered the game with the sole purpose of stirring the pot. I love how the entire World wanted to blame the hot blooded third World country for what happened in this game when it was actually the morally superior Euros the ones that cause it all.

Dutch behavior during penalties was lame, but earlier kicking the ball into the Netherlands dugout was moronic and they nearly lost their heads. Dutch aren’t innocent but neither are Argentina for th at match. Very bizarre behavior but obviously I’m ecstatic they won the WC. Not a huge deal what went down from both sides in the Dutch match, more of a blip if anything

[lefty]

Netherlands and Argentina have a historic WC rivalry, sparks fly, no biggie

[DAF86]

The image for this thread:

[Hoops Czar]

Comparing Neymar and Mbappe to Rodri and DeBruyne. That's like comparing Kobe and Iverson to Stockton and Jason Kidd. Playing alongside whom, do you think a star would score more?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. If you're saying that Mbappe is a ball hog, you'd be wrong. Mbappe is a willing passer and he showed that off in '21-'22 when he posted 17 assists. Neymar also had 47 assists in 112 matches in six seasons for PSG. Rodri had 14 assists in 154 games in five years for city. But yeah, Rodri and DeBruyne are midfielders while Mbappe and Neymar are strikers so you'd expect the latter to have less assists in theory but not reality. Do you know who else is a ball hog? Julian Alvarez. When he gets assists, it's usually because his shot is wildly off target and one of his his fellow attackers is there for the scoop and score.

In my scenario Messi replaces Haaland.

He still wouldn't win the golden boot. The EPL isn't a dumper's league like French Ligue 1. It's actually known for it's quality over quan y. If he wanted and still thought he was at the top of his game, he would be running towards the EPL for the right to compete at the highest level rather than stealing Apple's money in a Junior Varsity league, stat padding all the way.

First player from the French league to have a 20+/20+ season.

Neat stat and certainly well deserved. However, he's not the first to have the most Goals and assists combination. Zlatan had 38 goals and 13 assists in 2015-16 for PSG.

Both dominate their leagues, the difference is that City is the much better team and that proved to be an advantage on CL.

To be fair, City have only won one champions league and they were pretty lucky to survive Inter. In 2020, PSG probably beats anyone in the field not named Bayern Munich.

I also agree that his scoring would go up and his assists may decrease a bit, but casuals care about goals. That's why they scream "robbery", despite Messi having an excellent statistical season.

Yet, his statistical numbers still fell well short of Erling Haaland's for 10.5 months of a 12 month campaign. He was gifted a reward because he won his first and only WC.

If Messi would have won the WC but nothing else, and he wouldn't have put up the numbers, he wouldn't have won the Golden Ball.

Sure he would, He's Messi. See below...

The people that vote are the coaches, captains and journalists from all the World, not from France only.

That doesn't make the award any less rigged...

https://firstsportz.com/football-new...ere-erroneous/

“What little I can say about this type of award is that in 2013, I voted for my three players for the Ballon d’Or, and I sent my votes, and in the end when it was made public, the list of who voted for who, my votes were different. It said I voted for Messi, Cristiano, and I don’t know who else, but I didn’t vote for any of them. That’s why I say, I don’t believe in absolutely anything about those awards. Since then, I’ve thought these awards have no value”, claimed Owono.


https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/...icle-106627278


https://www.football-espana.net/2024/01/06/paris-saint-germain-under-investigation-messi-ballon-dor

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-were-rigged

Those aren't the stats, I posted the stats a few pages back. You can't pick and choose the stats you want. For the voting of the Golden Ball, the official stats from FIFA are the ones that were taken into consideration.

Those are his stats from 2020-21.

https://fbref.com/en/players/1f44ac2...l-Compe ions

[DAF86]

Dude, just shh. This is what happened:



And it was deserved. Stop crying.

[Hoops Czar]

Dude, just shh. This is what happened:



And it was deserved. Stop crying.

Yeah, he looks like the cat who ate the canary. He knows what's up.

[DAF86]

Yeah, he looks like the cat who ate the canary. He knows what's up.

What a ing cry baby.

[Hoops Czar]

What a ing cry baby.

Congrats on your boy winning another undeserved award. Rumor has it that Messi was so embarrassed that he won the men's FIFA player of the year award, he didn't even bother showing up to receive it. And don't retort about winning some farmer's league le and the first ever League Cup in the U.S. as justification for winning the award. Can you say R.I.G.G.E.D.? I'm betting half the proceeds from winning that award go straight to Apple.

[DAF86]

Congrats on your boy winning another undeserved award. Rumor has it that Messi was so embarrassed that he won the men's FIFA player of the year award, he didn't even bother showing up to receive it. And don't retort about winning some farmer's league le and the first ever League Cup in the U.S. as justification for winning the award. Can you say R.I.G.G.E.D.? I'm betting half the proceeds from winning that award go straight to Apple.

No, this one I 100% agree he didn't deserve. Messi himself doesn't believe he should have won it, that's why he didn't went to the ceremony; but whatcha gonna do when Mbappe and Madrid players are voting for him?

P/S: See? I can be objective. Messi didn't deserve to win this last award (he shouldn't have even finished top 3) and I say it without a problem because I'm not an emotionally obtuse crybaby. The last Golden Ball? he definitely should have won it, and anyone crying robbery is an emotionally obtuse crybaby.

[DAF86]

And this is just taking numbers into consideration, which we all know, in football, is not even close to telling the whole story.

[lefty]

Messi lost to Al Nassr 6-0

[Brazil]

Messi lost to Al Nassr 6-0

imagine the compe iveness of the MLS
without Ronaldo

[lefty]

imagine the compe iveness of the MLS
without Ronaldo

MLS is good enough for muricans tbh

[FrostKing]

[lefty]

Messi being a POS as usual