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So they were lying to their franchise player AND the fans? This doesn't really make it better.
No, I think pop and his staff vastly overrated the roster. It is obvious from the contracts handed out to Collins and Vassell and the glowing statements they had about Branham before the season began.
If they were tanking, they wouldn’t have made the rotation changes that improved the team’s performance and record. Now they’re at risk of only a bottom four or bottom five record, not exactly reflective of a team that’s purposefully bad.
So they were lying to their franchise player AND the fans? This doesn't really make it better.
Branham showed with that personal 11-0 run, that he could conceivably provide instant offense off the bench as his game grows over the next couple of seasons (hopefully).
As I recall, the over under on wins was in the 25-27 range. Slight improvement. Not likely the MGT expected to go from 20 wins to a playoff team. Maybe they expected 30 to low 30 wins at best, or had no expectations at all really, beyond the team was not going to be a contender.
And Keith Bogans was really the centerpiece of the defense in 2009. I have some nice oceanfront property in Phoenix that might interest you.
Oh, and neither of those two extensions for Dev or Zach were on the cap this year. If they wanted to sign FAs, they had all of their money available.
Never change, dude.
To clarify, you are insisting the Spurs tanked deliberately for another high draft pick and that is the sole argument occurring here? Or, are you also coupling that with the front office being cheap bastages? Just trying to keep up…
(spirited debate!)
Tankatankatank. I don’t think they’re cheap, just that they didn’t want to buy talent that might wreck things. Notice that after that recent 3 game heater, suddenly, guys are out for the year. Look for something similar with Keldon after another game or two. It was also a prescient move to block Toronto. If we hadn’t, they’d be sitting at 5 right now, and we’d barely have a 36% chance at the pick, instead of the 54% chance we have now.
Houston is pretty much out of the play in at this point, and all people will remember in five years is that we were both in the lottery, but they spent 9 figures on FAs, and we got a better pick, or picks.
Bogans was indeed treated like the centerpiece of the defense (to every fan's irritation). Are we having revisionist history about Bogans now too?
The point I raised about Dev and Zach had nothing to do with their inability to sign FAs. I was pointing out that they very much overrated those two. Just like they did Branham and Sochan. They paid Dev and Zach like centerpieces because they thought they were centerpieces. They paid Zach like a starter because they thought he was a starter, hence, they played Zach as a starter. They put Sochan as the starting point guard because they thought could play point guard.
Over and over, they did things an incompetent team does. If tanking was the strategy, there are many easier, less embarrassing ways to do that. They didn't take those routes because they weren't purposely tanking, they were just dumb.
And now they will not end up with a bottom 3 record because, again, they are not trying to tank.
On a team with Tim Duncan. Another thing that Pop said, and people ate up. Is your leg still out of the socket, because he sure pulled it.
Stop
Taking
Things
Pop
Says
At
Face
Value
Your opinion post was passing muster to some degree, until you griped about “blowing” the top 3 pick. When in fact nobody is seeing much difference in the top 5-10 players.
But, your point is taken about the paradoxical approach to tank or not to tank, that is the question.
The salaries they paid though are not that awful. Collins, yes probably a little high but he’s been a halfway decent anchor to the second unit, usually gives double digits points in under 20 minutes. Vassell has a declining $ deal, which most seemed to give decent reviews as a result. Seems the Spurs had some degree of issue needing to get up the to league minimum salary, and most were not eager to throw $60 mills at Lillard, much less give up draft assets.
So, apparently we didn’t have much else to do with the money.
ROFL thinking they're tanking for this ridiculously weak draft class
Just a coping mechanism sniffers use to convince themselves that their infallible PATFO are doing a great job.
The facts point to them simply being an absolutely awful basketball team. They are not tanking- they suck. Anyone arguing otherwise is wasting everyone’s time.
What you should be doing is questioning the front offices’ ability to evaluate players and this roster as a whole
oh and Branham is an awful player. Lacks athleticism, speed, defense and BBIQ. He better become a knock down shooter or else he has no use on this team.
Sometimes they're just wrong dude. Sometimes Pop is just wrong. I don't know why you insist on acting like eery move they make is some amazing fake out or big brain move. i guess the Zach Collins extension was part of the tank, right?
They are definitely tanking now. There's no way it was the plan going into the season and there's reporting from multiple places that backs this up. s sake.
They drafted Wemby, and
Did
Nothing
Else.
That’s not some secret plan or double reverse. It was done right there in plain sight. It’s not that complicated, and plain to see. They spent ZERO dollars on FAs, and made ZERO positive asset trades, selling off that cap room.
Hi Exstatic, welcome to this season was a deliberate tank island. Don't forget 25 games of Point Sochan, and then Point Branham. Only turning the reins over to Tre (the best PG on the roster) when forced by injury...
The reason they tanked this year (with the weak draft class) is simple. Next year, Wemby will be too good to get a bottom four draft slot (IMO of course, but I think PATFO sees it too). By himself, he will have us at a minimum at 9th...
They didn't tank. They thought Sochan, Collins, Johnson, Branham, and Vassell were good and were wrong.
Wright literally said they were using this year for evalutation, and that includes Wemby. They had no point making moves before knowing what they got with and around Wemby. But that's not tanking, they were serious about trying to win games, which notably how you evaluate players, the ones who make you win.
Now, they know. No one is untouchable besides Wemby and besides maybe Devin, they have no other core pieces.
The organization spent so much on Pop they have to ride with whatever he decides, and he's playing "hold my beer" again.
Possibly, but I can't picture PATFO thinking 2 second year players, an injury reclaim project, and a 29th pick were enough support for Dev and Vic or that Dev and Vic could carry that group yet to any significant postseason success.
I just think Vic was never going to be ready to push for a ring in his rookie season whether you surround him with Jordan or Julian. Too many young mistakes (TOs and shot selection) and too much endurance conditioning still needed. I think the FO did the right things, patience and maintained flexibility.
I have more of an issue with the contracts they signed to Zach and Devin. I have no problem with playing Sochan at point to see what would happen. Now they know and need to prioritize finding a very good point guard. The team came a long way since starting Tre.
I think they tried to do many different things while splitting the middle like they normally do. If they were tanking tanking then they would have benched players earlier. Wemby wants to win. So they have appearances to maintain to keep his respect.
Picking their motivation is tricky as always. My gut feeling is they thought they were going to be better than they were and could get away with playing Sochan at point guard. My guess is that they were privately horrified at how terrible the beginning of the season was, but no one will ever say.
Yep, this is exactly it. The Spurs aren’t masterminds planning every move. They could have expected the young players around Wemby to be good supporting pieces for the long term future and then realize that some aren’t. To say the plan is different when it suits the situation is to take away accountability. The Spurs aren’t infallible in everything they do, but they do learn from their mistakes… and as a fan, that’s something more to be proud of than thinking they’re 9999 IQ geniuses who see the future. The Spurs are made up of smart individuals who learn from their mistakes, know how to pivot and adjust to the times. That’s more than you can hope for.
Last edited by Dejounte; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:05 PM.
The Sniffer Coping Playbook, Ch. 6, Subchapter 7, Section 4(a), Paragraph II clearly states that all mistakes the Franchise makes are not actual mistakes, they are some meticulously planned out move in a game of 8D chess.
Just think about it. It is truly inconceivable to think that a team that adds one of the greatest prospects in history, who ends up shattering high expectations, would make the essentially same team better than a year prior! Obviously they were tanking the whole time. Just like drafting Primo was all part of the plan to get Wemby, as was starting Bryn Forbes for years, as was trading for Demarre Carroll, as was signing Patty Mills for 4/48, etc. Mere mortals lack the vision to see the game being played directly in front of them.
Popovich farts on a mission in West Africa, a butterfly flaps its wings, and a hurricane eventually hits Florida. It's all part of the master plan.
I don't believe the issue was last year, everybody, including, the fans, thought they were gonna better, at least a 30+ win team and even make the play in, for some, proving there were some kind of collective delusion or wishful thinking about that roster... Like, that's the spurs, they develop prospects (which they actually never did in that proportion and in a rebuilding project) so these kids are necessarily gonna be good. And that's still some fans perception.
Now, the issue is more what are they gonna do THIS offseason. Persevere with these kids or bring Vic some needed help. I believe they got chocked and some reality check about the fact no matter how competent your development program might be, at the end of the day it's about talent and there's not that much valuable one besides Vic on that roster.
I didn’t believe the spurs were tanking at all this season.
1) there’s no one to tank. Obviously it’s better to get a higher pick but this years draft? You can get the same quality of picks from 1 to 5
2) nobody was “injured” for too long. There was that ball boy incident but it wasn’t too ridiculous.
3) the spurs are actually playing better as the year went on. If you’re tanking to do it the other way.
That said, I didn’t think the team was going balls to the wall to maximize wins either. They were clearly experimenting with things. Sochan at PF being the obvious one. But wemby at the perimeter, then more in the paint. Then wemby facilitates more, Champaigne in the starting lineup. The spurs were testing out things to see what works and get a rough outline of how a team should be built around wemby. If they lose they lose, but if the win all the better.
It’s frustrating to watch, especially when the team was playing like a pickup game at the first 1/3 of the year and pop just didn’t do anything. There are still many fundamental flaws in the players skills now that the coaches should be correcting. I’m not sure if there are reasons being it or PATFO is really that incompetent (I doubt it) but regardless it is undoubtedly a disappointment for the fans. Not sure what the objective of the team was coming into the year but whatever it was I hope they achieved it.
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