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Ridiculous. Wade won a le as a #1 guy while Harden is an even worse choker than Karl Malone.
Not that farfetched of an opinion by Teague, imho.
Ridiculous. Wade won a le as a #1 guy while Harden is an even worse choker than Karl Malone.
This is like asking who is better, Dirk Nowitzki or Chris Webber?
Wade sure turned into a massive got but had several good years as a 1.
It's not that black and white though, imo.
That Wade le as a #1 was aided by a healthy dose of questionable FTs and more importantly a complete collapse/choke job from the Mavs. Up 2-0, up 13 going into the 4th Qtr of Game 3 and then the Mavs went into full blown Chokericks mode.
Harden nearly knocked off arguably the greatest team ever assembled. And he was by far the best player on those Rockets teams. Way bigger gap than the Wade/Shaq gap.
Does Wade ring as a #1 if he goes up against a team of Golden State's caliber? Does Harden ring if he doesn't come across a historic team?
Harden got more foodstamps than Wade and still couldn't capitalize.
Nearly knocked off the Warriors? He shot 2-13 from the three point line in blowing Game 7 at home.
No and no.
Harden has been embarrassing in the twilight of his career. Toxic to his team and no one wants him anymore. Wade still landed in places because of his veteran prowess and championship experience. I think Harden being an all time great was out of the picture the moment he let 40 year old Manu block his shot in a crucial playoff game.
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Not an easy answer for me. Wade is the better athlete, he has the more aesthetically pleasing game. He’s an NBA champion and considered by a lot of basketball people to be the 3rd best SG ever. Harden meanwhile has had unquestionable production despite unlikable parts of his game. And while Wade has rings, Harden has a League MVP trophy, something Wade does not. And while we can note Wade’s playoff successes and Harden’s playoff chokes and no-shows, I do think context is necessary.
Wade led teams without Shaq or LeBron were slightly better than average, .500ish, low playoff seed teams that didn’t do and usually lost in the first round. Harden led a Rockets team to a #2 seed and the WCF with a supporting cast of Dwight Howard whose game was already becoming a relic in the suddenly quickly evolving NBA at the time, along with guys like Donatas Motiejunas and Trevor Ariza as part of their core. Also led the Rockets to a #1 seed and 65 wins and another WCF appearance with career loser Chris Paul and Eric Gordon. Even without Dwight and CP3, Harden got the Rockets to 55 wins and got them out of the first round with Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson as his best teammates.
I might lean towards Wade because I like his game better. But I don’t think it’s an easy answer. Certainly not a slam dunk. Least not for me.
...one never knows when a player will pull an ('10 Artest). I heartily believed and wanted that out of Westbrook with the Lakers, but it failed. I still feel that Westbrook has a '10 Artest in him. Perhaps Harden is finally going to see the light before it is extinguished and go whole hog.
Wade is clearly a tier above Harden since he actually led his team to a le as a #1 option, and it's not like he was piloting a superteam. I can't hold Wade not taking his team to 50+ wins in the late 2000s against him either since we're not trying to argue he is in the Magic/Bird/LeBron tier and since the Heat were just hoarding capspace for LeBron once Shaq got old. Those W/L records Harden led the Rockets to from 15-19 were fools gold since they were based on a parade to the free throw line that stops happening in the playoffs when the refs swallow their whistles a lot more and quit rewarding his flopping so much.
Wade, but it is closer than most will give it credit for because of RINGZ! and the former being far more liked than the latter.
Harden probably has Wade on peak and definitely on longevity. Of course, he's the worst big game playoff performer for an otherwise all timer of at least his generation.
Harden scores points.
Wade wins games.
Wade’s win loss records
Regular season
With LeBron 177-71 (.714)
Without LeBron 434-372 (.538)
Playoffs
With LeBron 59-28 (.678)
Without LeBron 46-44 (.511)
Those seasons and post seasons without LeBron include those couple seasons with Shaq. Take those out, Wade is a career loser, regular seasons and playoffs. You’re giving Wade credit for one great playoff run where he ran through a terribly weak Eastern Conference, one he couldn’t have gotten out of especially against Detroit back then without Shaq, and what has universally been panned as a free throw red carpet NBA finals for him. He has the 2006 le run, four years of coattailing LeBron, and everything else he’s done, regular season and postseason, was leading mediocre Miami Heat teams as a poor man’s Tracy McGrady.
Wade wins games like Kevin Durant wins rings. Have to stack the deck in his favor for things to line up perfectly.
Last edited by JamStone; 07-27-2023 at 02:50 PM.
That's...a lot of work to make him look bad. Take away all the winning and every player is a career loser.
Stern hated Cuban so much, he robbed Dirk of a ring. D-Whistle shot the most free throws in a 6-game Finals, in NBA history. Talk about a ref induced, manufactured 'superstar'.
More than Duncan
More than Shaq
More than Bird
More than Jordan
I don't like Harden, but he would have won with the likes of LeBron, Shaq, and Bosh too.
Harden won an MVP. Wade did not. If not for the loaded Dubs, Harden likely wins a le in Houston.
Harden flops, but skillwise he was betterPERIOD.
Harden > D-Whistle
There is no way Harden has Wade on peak. Wade's 2006 ECF and 2006 Finals were unreal.
If not for the Dubs Harden loses to LeBron in the Finals in 2015 and 2018. LOL a Kobe Stan complaining about parades to the free throw line. LOL the MVP argument too. Yes tell me how Nash was so much better than Kobe and Iverson was an equivalent player to Kobe because of MVP count. Also ROFL Laker fan talking about anyone getting robbed of a le after 2002.
Wade was better but those zebras were fantastic sidekicks
Simple arithmetic is a lot of work?That's...a lot of work to make him look bad. Take away all the winning and every player is a career loser.
I took out the four seasons he played with LeBron. That’s all. Four seasons out of 16 total seasons. I didn’t take out his seasons with Shaq. I didn’t try to manipulate numbers. I looked at his total games played. And subtracted the games played in the four seasons he played with LeBron. Is that really a lot of work to you? Because I gotta be honest, if it is, your professional ceiling is probably retail or data entry.
16 total seasons, four seasons with LeBron. Regular season some 800 games without LeBron, some 250 games played with LeBron. 90 playoff games with LeBron in four post seasons. And 87 playoff games in 13 post seasons without LeBron. It’s simple arithmetic.
It’s not a lot of work. And it’s all statistically factual. Without LeBron, in his career, he led a bunch of mediocre first round exit teams. That’s facts. 2006 was his singular career work of art, his Monet, his Picasso. And an outlier. The rest of his seasons and playoffs, he was Cowboy Willie drawing cartoon faces of tourists on the River Walk.
The massive difference on the Defensive end is tough to look past
Also Harden exploited a rule that allowed him to turn from All Star to MVP but then back down once the rule was changed
Teammates wise, considering Harden ended up on Brooklyn and now with Embiid, does he actually have the edge in players he played alongside?
Harden has actually had an impressive career for a guy that started off as a #3 and considering his physical limitations. But when comparing the two players it would be a special cir stance why I'd pick Harden over Wade when constructing a Dream starting 5. Wade is so much more versatile and has a number of less weaknesses.
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