Of course the Hawks will initially ask for Vassell; it's part of the game. Start off asking for the sun, moon and sky, so when you eliminate the latter, you can pretend to have compromised when in reality both sides knew beforehand roughly where the deal was at.
Even though they might not go full-on re-build initially, it'll likely be on the horizon. Oftentimes, it occurs in increments as opposed to one fell swoop.
Again, if the Spurs want Young (and there's becoming too much information to think otherwise), they'll get him because only they can offer the Hawks the most valuable resource, which is their own picks back.
Pipedreams. Late prime Antetokounmpo isn't becoming 2nd fiddle to another big because of the ego/"legacy" hit, the Mavericks would never trade Doncic to the Spurs and MVP caliber players don't get to free agency.
This type of pie in the sky thinking will be the demise of the Wembanyama era unless they luck into a lead ball handling star in the draft first.
My guess is that Atlanta would want the Spurs to be part of any discussions on a Young trade, even if Trae isn't slated to go to SA. The Hawks may well want to see if they can move some of a Young package to the Spurs in exchange for some of their draft capital being returned.
I hope we aren't keeping our powder dry for Luka or Giannis. They are fun dreams, but the possibility is far too remote to build a strategy on. I'd venture to say the odds of 1) these guys demanding a trade 2) san antonio being the preferred destination and 3) us being the most attractive trade partner are... well, far less than 14% (as a reference point).
I get the patient line of thinking; however, it would be foolish to assume Wemby is going to have some Duncan/Manu like 20-year career. The Spurs need to expedite the building process and I think/hope they know that. Wemby having the all time high usage rate for a rookie I think speaks to that.
Good thoughts, the only caveat to this would be that you can still think of a player like Trae as a transitory piece (albeit it an expensive one) so long as you don't think he'll get appreciably worse in his time in San Antonio. Trae is young enough that you could get a 3-year stint out of him, and then recoup much, if not all, of the capital you expended to get him back in another trade down the road.
I'm not overly concerned with his opt-out ability. He may do so but his best option would still be to resign with the Spurs or get a S&T. There would not likely be any desireable teams with the cap space to sign him if he opted out. Are there any examples of max level players who have opted out and then signed elsewhere?
i can see how that makes sense. you pay a guy at the peak of his earnings now while wemby is still cheap, and by the time wemby is set for a huge raise, said player is either gone, or comes back for less than max money.
i still think that this is the more compelling argument against a Trae trade. and i dont think the current spurs + trae + a top 3 pick in this year's draft, for instance, is a contending team. maybe a wemby at the peak of his powers at 26-30 years old would be good enough to win with the current versions of Trae/Vassell, but he's clearly not there just yet. think you are gambling he will be in 2-3 years if you take on Trae, as well as assuming Trae can modify his game to a degree, like Harden has done with the clippers (offensively, harden and trae are pretty similar, in that they 'are the system')I think you can make the argument that the Spurs shouldn't lock themselves into Young until/unless they believe Young is going to put them over the top. Likely a Wemby/Young duo is still a major piece away from being a real contender for a few years, and that piece would be hard to get if they're trying to make a deal now.
this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan?The team should pursue a legit vet this off-season. Not a young vet, and not a cast-off. They should get a guy who can show them how to win. I've already said all this before, so I'm not going to go into much again. But ultimately, the Spurs should probably pursue a guy who's at the peak of his earning potential and be willing to pay him the money they aren't paying Wemby right now to chaperone the team for a couple of years. Then when it's time for Wemby to be the star, they have that money free and can make win-now moves, and that old guy can hang around on a cheap deal if it still makes sense.
i guess, but if the spurs arent getting the "star" of the trade, what could they possible receive to entice them to give up those unprotected picks?
I'm hoping Brian Wright isn't as stupid when it comes to Trae Young as some of the people on this thread are.
Assists Leader
One man offense
Superstar at a position of weakness on our team
Perfect secondary star for Wemby
It literally doesn't get better. Players of this caliber are almost never available. We have Atlantas picks, we have the leverage. Lets ing use it instead of getting 2 more Jeremy Sochans in the draft
Isaac has durability issues and between that and the other two forwards, will always have a limited role. They'll probably trade for a guard like Simons relatively soon to add to the other three.
For now, the Spurs core would have a higher ceiling and could increase further still depending on the natural pick in the '24 draft potentially knocking Sochan down a peg.
I'd give the Thunder core the edge because they have no defensive liabilities, but I wouldn't say they'd be unbeatable either.
I'm not worried about Young opting out at all given his extension eligibility this off-season. Teams would be able to get a commitment from Young as part of a trade. Young being a transitional piece would depend on compensation, and if the explicit goal isn't to win a le with him, then you can sort of 80/20 him and look for a cheaper alternative. The point in paying a premium is to get a marginal boost, and a team in transition doesn't require that marginal boost to continue on their journey. I also think a Young closer to 30 and who would theoretically not have seen a ton of post-season success despite playing years with one of the better NBA players (projecting Wemby in a few seasons) may not have the same shine on him as he does now when folks are thinking of him as a long-term fixture.
I'm not saying I'd hate a Young trade. I'm just saying it would have to be part of a much more disruptive off-season for it to really make sense to me, and the Spurs likely wouldn't be left with much in the way of future flexibility in that scenario.
Guys on max contracts don't get traded unless theres an issue of some type..
Kawhi Leonard: TOR -> LAC. Multiple DPOY, AS, ALL NBA
I didn't say we were after Luka or Giannis. I said the package for them wouldn't be appreciably different than a package for Trae. I only said, I think we have our eye on bigger fish..... i have no idea who that is..
I agree with your point in principle but I wouldn't try to compare with any team in the East. The only time the Spurs could meet them in the playoffs is in the Finals, which is a high quality problem to have.
I don't think Trae/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby would beat the Thunder in a playoff series next year. Even the two years after that are a stretch; their cap sheet is very clean until the summer of 2026 when the rookie extensions for Chet and Jalen Williams would kick in and thus they wouldn't be forced to lose a major piece before then.
it's probably at the top of the spurs list of "floor raisers" available.
this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan?
Yeah, I think there needs to be an understanding that the Spurs best version of the future is one where Vassell is the 3rd/4th option on the team and Sochan is the "worst" starter and/or key bench player. If we are strictly relying upon the existing roster growing into a championship caliber collect of players next to Wemby and (potentially) Trae, then we are likely going to fall short.
I’d love to be able to pick off someone like Cason Wallace, OK actually Cason Wallace from OKC when their cap sheet tightens up.
Spurs may have that opportunity as early as this summer if Presti has insider info and a strong belief in Cody williams. He'd offer Cason + Rockets 2024 for Spurs 2024. Would you take that?
That would be very tempting....very...
I didn't mean to sound like I was shooting the messenger.
I think and hope that they recognize that doing better is probably highly unlikely and that they should take advantage of this opportunity where things are seemingly aligned for them.
Again, he can always be rerouted down the line for similar value if it doesn't work out.
It's all good...
the issue could be ATL underperforming while being short on cap space + not controlling their own picks, not necessarily Trae wanting out
Trae also has a 15% trade kicker...
I think the lack of MVPs probably make Young more persuadable than Harden. That's good. I just think it might make more sense to get a Young-level player once Wemby seems closer to ready for it rather than paying now in the hope that player is still on the roster when Wemby's time comes. Even if it's costs more, the Spurs will have had a chance to actually see what the 2024 and potentially 2025 picks become before jumping into it.
To me, Butler is in between old, reliable contending engines like James and Curry and stars who won't create championship expectations like DeRozan and Thompson. I fully believe that Jimmy could be an engine if supported by a real second star like Wemby should be next year or the year after. He reminds me a lot of Steve Smith (Sr) when he signed with Ravens and gave their young WR core a bunch of swagger. Just pure "that dude" energy even though you never go into it thinking he's the favorite. George is probably in between too but closer to the Thompson/DeRozan end. He showed a lot a decade ago with the Pacers, but he doesn't have Jimmy's cache nor the rings of James and Curry.this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan?
Besides Jimmy, I don't know if a legit fit is out there. DeRozan back in 2018 had the talent to help Wemby and Vassell, but he's slowed down and is basically a post-up guy now who lacks the size of older Rudy Gay. Klay's resume looks good, and he's probably obtainable, but he's definitely on the downside and never really exuded the same aura of excellence as Steph does. If the Spurs had cap space (yes, objective, it's okay to bring up Collins' contract if you want), signing Thompson outright for a two-year deal might be the best they could do. But then you have to deal with the fact that Thompson basically plays the exact same position as Vassell.
As weird as it may sound, maybe Jerami Grant? Dude's never been a full-star, but he has been in a lot of situations and has experience cutting his teeth to go from second-round afterthought to key role-player, to lesser star. He's due big money and probably isn't worth it to anyone. But he does round out the roster pretty well (can slide in as a 2B next to Devin and bolster the forward rotation with Sochan) and is cheaper than a lot of other stars. He also doesn't turn 30 until next month, so there's meat left on that bone. It would be a gamble, but depending on who would go out as part of the trade, it might not be that risky. He probably gives off Hawks/Nuggets-Millsap vibes more than anyone else in the league right now.
I mean there's certainly a delta there between what one of those picks are worth and what Young is worth. I don't know who'd be in on Trae, but the value might be there, especially the Raptors keep their pick and Hawks 24 is decent.i guess, but if the spurs arent getting the "star" of the trade, what could they possible receive to entice them to give up those unprotected picks?
Depends where our pick is. Rockets pick is likely to be 10 or later. If disaster strikes, and our natural pick is like 6 or 7, I’d discuss it. No way if we’re top 3, though. The cap will bite them the ass at least two years before it bites us.
Assuming they want him, I'm not sure spurs would help ATL trade him to another team.
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