Grades: Spurs vs. Nuggets - Apr. 12, 2024

[z0sa]

This brings me no great joy to say but we don’t win this game with Devin-Sochan-Keldon

we were rolling bc everyone was moving and playing off wemby. How many dumb contested iso shots (devin) or head down drives to the rim with no plan (keldon) or driving into a crowd to throw up some bs or turn the ball over (sochan) did you see last night?

if the point of this season was to see what fits best with wemby its clear that smart players who move without the ball are what we need.

It’s time to accept that this roster NEEDS to be blown up. Imagine Vassell running some pitiful screen and rolls and jacking up contested shots, or Sochan bricking all of the 3s Mamu made. Vassell, Sochan and Wemby NEVER had this much chemistry all season. Get rid of Vassell, for sure, IMHO. People talking about his contract, like saving money instead of winning les is the goal. Julian Champagnie looking like 85% of the player in his absence for a tenth of the money.

Instead, next season it will be back to pretend Vassell is Manu and give him the ball near half court every possession that matters, grinding our offense to a halt while he uses his D+ level dribble to run out the shotclock.

[MultiTroll]

wtf why are we winning?

That win was good for the spirit.
Seeing Wemby that geeked up well, almost makes the trade off of possible #3 for probable #5 worth.

Ya, to answer Pop is not about making the team better. Is all about himself.
Like where was this lineup 5 months earlier? I know, lets play Sochan at pg for 40 games.
The Sniffers in worship will say CIA Pop doing a tank. Um ok. Then why undo the tank these last 10 games. You won't get a Sniffer answer.

Ya it's all about himself as long as he is here.
That's the short and long answer.

You would think today will be an extreme Tank vs Tank as Detroit.
We need to know what WA does in todays 1st game.
I sure hope WA loses so Det is motivated to win.

[itzsoweezee]

When the Spurs beat a team without Wemby fans fall all over themselves to call it meaningless.

Wemby is the franchise. Information about how the spurs do without Wemby is essentially meaningless.

[Pauleta14]

I have the feeling PATFO is gonna use those last good games as an excuse to not make any move.

Just listening to Pop praising Brahman's season yesterday was surreal.

[TheChillFactor]

Ya, to answer Pop is not about making the team better. Is all about himself.
Like where was this lineup 5 months earlier? I know, lets play Sochan at pg for 40 games.
The Sniffers in worship will say CIA Pop doing a tank. Um ok. Then why undo the tank these last 10 games. You won't get a Sniffer answer.

you weirdos just have these arguments in your head with imaginary "Sniffers"...the Sochan thing was dumb, i don't think anyone is saying it was some master stroke.

Can you show me on the doll where "The Sniffer" touched you?

Tell me, Mul roll, is "The Sniffer" in the room with us RIGHT NOW?

[Seventyniner]

Two things.

Sitting Victor tomorrow would be a giant slap in the face to both Victor and the fans. Screw a few ping-pong balls, we all deserve one more game of Wemby this season.

I sure hope tonight's performance doesn't get the Spurs to guarantee Graham's contract.

[Chinook]

Wemby is the franchise. Information about how the spurs do without Wemby is essentially meaningless.

No? Both because the team will have to win games without Wemby due to injury, foul trouble or whatever and because the guys playing well is always good. This has never been an either/or situation. It's only a fantasy pushed by player fans.

[MultiTroll]

you weirdos just have these arguments in your head with imaginary "Sniffers"...the Sochan thing was dumb, i don't think anyone is saying it was some master stroke.

There were plenty saying it was a good move that would pay off in the long run.

Nice try.

[spurs10]

Great grades. Thanks! Now I'm anxious to go back and see what kind of intimidation they were laying on Wemby. Whatever it was it didn't work out so well for them. I've been a supporter of Denver in the playoffs in the past and still think it's gonna be D. White's Celtics vs them. I'm very impressed with Mamu's chemistry with VM on the court. More-so than Vassell, Keldon, and Sochan.

[CGD]

The same thing was said last summer and what happened? The core whom developement so many were excited to see were worse to start the season

I could get the logic if the Spurs already had the core to build on, but it's far from the case, at best Wemby + Vassell are starters

Sochan too small to play PF and can't shoot or handle the ball well enough to play SF

Tre overachieving undersized PG who can't pass the ball to Victor (he's litterally gotten worse at it through out the season )

Keldon, great heart but absurd low BBIQ

Brahman Collins Champagnie... WTF

I hope PATFO or some of you don't get fooled by recency bias

I mean you kinda undermine your own critique when you say “I get the logic if they had the core already” etc. They didn’t last year, but they do this year heading into it the summer. We can (and should) debate the merits of it but as of right now the Front Office sees Vic, Dev, and Jeremy as part of their core, while I do think they know neither of the latter are “number 2s.”

As for internal growth from last year, here are a few things that are different:

- Dev took a leap as shot creator & midrange threat
- Tre developed a reliable 3 in this last stretch
- Sochan is becoming a better facilitator
- Champ became a legit (deep) NBA bench guy
- Zach found his footing in this last stretch as a serviceable big man

[spurraider21]

When the Spurs beat a team without Wemby fans fall all over themselves to call it meaningless. When they win one without anyone else, it's a sign or something.

[MultiTroll]

Old news by now but did anyone catch WTF was the "flopping" call on Wesley.
Definitely put a dent in the comeback (at the time).
My recording shows Wesley heading upcourt with no one near him. The camera stays below the basket.
At first the announcers thought the call was on Mamu which was a total WTF moment.

Never did (that i know of) show the footage of what got Wesley rung up for flopping.
You got it?

[LeBowen]

It's not about one or two games, it's been 7 games since our supposed second, third and fourth best players were shut down.

Warriors, 4 points L.
@ Nuggets, 5 points L.
@ Pelicans, 2 points W.
Sixers, 7 points, 2OT L.
@ Grizzlies, 15 points W.
@ Thunder, 37 points L, no Wemby.
Denver, 1 point W.

Six games with Wemby and scrubs, 3-3, +2 points differential.
Five of those games were against playoff teams playing for seeding.
Grizzlies are the most injured team ever, but they're still competing, Lakers barely beat them last night in a must win game.

One game with no Wemby? 37 points L.

Enough of a sample size for me.

[itzsoweezee]

No? Both because the team will have to win games without Wemby due to injury, foul trouble or whatever and because the guys playing well is always good. This has never been an either/or situation. It's only a fantasy pushed by player fans.

Again, essentially meaningless. How the others play without wemby doesn’t tell anything of significant value. The “others” need to fit with wemby, not the other way around. That’s just the way NBA basketball works. NBA teams go as their superstars go. Mavs aren’t winning without Luka, the thunder aren’t winning without SGA, etc.

That’s not to say wemby shouldn’t work to become a better player, but his performance is not measured by whether he meshes well with players on the roster, especially because wemby is a willing passer and plays both ends of the court. He’s the last guy needing critique about fit

[Mr. Body]

It’s time to accept that this roster NEEDS to be blown up. Imagine Vassell running some pitiful screen and rolls and jacking up contested shots, or Sochan bricking all of the 3s Mamu made. Vassell, Sochan and Wemby NEVER had this much chemistry all season. Get rid of Vassell, for sure, IMHO. People talking about his contract, like saving money instead of winning les is the goal. Julian Champagnie looking like 85% of the player in his absence for a tenth of the money.

Instead, next season it will be back to pretend Vassell is Manu and give him the ball near half court every possession that matters, grinding our offense to a halt while he uses his D+ level dribble to run out the shotclock.

I wonder when supposed fans will realize that end of bench players can play well for short spans of a few games but then they get figured out or just can't keep it up. This ain't EA Sports. It's super-casual to think these end of season games can be projected over a long period of time throughout a season. It's just... not good, man. But you've got spirit thinking you know more than multi-year professionals in the league who, if they make mistakes here or there, know what they're doing far more than you do. I like the gumption, though.

[Mr. Body]

No? Both because the team will have to win games without Wemby due to injury, foul trouble or whatever and because the guys playing well is always good. This has never been an either/or situation. It's only a fantasy pushed by player fans.

Absolutely. Wembanyama is going to get hurt at some point. He's coming off the Olympics this summer. The team needs to learn how to support him but also excel in their own ways. This is completely obvious.

I'm starting to realize -- and this isn't a problem with SpursTalk necessarily -- that many people aren't simply confined and very menial in their thought patterns, they don't actually care about what they claim to care about. Like, most people here aren't actually Spurs fans. They've just found something they like to and whine about in a kind of mud-brain cult level.

[Mugen]

ummm, yes. I don't want any of the heads from the draft but a #3 pick is much more valuable to trade than a #7 pick

Not in this draft tbh. And the Spurs aren't trading it even if it was top 5 tbh.

[Spurminator]

I wonder when supposed fans will realize that end of bench players can play well for short spans of a few games but then they get figured out or just can't keep it up. This ain't EA Sports. It's super-casual to think these end of season games can be projected over a long period of time throughout a season. It's just... not good, man. But you've got spirit thinking you know more than multi-year professionals in the league who, if they make mistakes here or there, know what they're doing far more than you do. I like the gumption, though.

Yeah if we played these guys instead of Sochan, Vassell and KJ all season, we might only win like 21 games.

[SouthernFryd]

Champagnie, the "invisible man"...de-cloaked tonite. Those dunks, in crowds...wow. Didn't know he had it in him.

I think everyone did well tonight. Even Wesley had a couple of motivational dunks. Can't think of anyone who didn't give it their all.

But, yeah...I like Manu

[ambchang]

It’s time to accept that this roster NEEDS to be blown up. Imagine Vassell running some pitiful screen and rolls and jacking up contested shots, or Sochan bricking all of the 3s Mamu made. Vassell, Sochan and Wemby NEVER had this much chemistry all season. Get rid of Vassell, for sure, IMHO. People talking about his contract, like saving money instead of winning les is the goal. Julian Champagnie looking like 85% of the player in his absence for a tenth of the money.

Instead, next season it will be back to pretend Vassell is Manu and give him the ball near half court every possession that matters, grinding our offense to a halt while he uses his D+ level dribble to run out the shotclock.

Wemby, Tre, sochan, Vassell and keldon is +20.5 on about 140 mins or so. That’s the second best 5-man lineup for the team. I mean come on.

[CorrectCrusader]

It's not about one or two games, it's been 7 games since our supposed second, third and fourth best players were shut down.

Warriors, 4 points L.
@ Nuggets, 5 points L.
@ Pelicans, 2 points W.
Sixers, 7 points, 2OT L.
@ Grizzlies, 15 points W.
@ Thunder, 37 points L, no Wemby.
Denver, 1 point W.

Six games with Wemby and scrubs, 3-3, +2 points differential.
Five of those games were against playoff teams playing for seeding.
Grizzlies are the most injured team ever, but they're still competing, Lakers barely beat them last night in a must win game.

One game with no Wemby? 37 points L.

Enough of a sample size for me.

No Jeremy and Keldon is addition by subtraction.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

David Duke and the Clan.


Thanks for the grades. Who gives a crap about draft position, tbh.

[taps]

Damn the klan joke kinda sucks.

[The Truth #6]

you weirdos just have these arguments in your head with imaginary "Sniffers"...the Sochan thing was dumb, i don't think anyone is saying it was some master stroke.

Can you show me on the doll where "The Sniffer" touched you?

Tell me, Mul roll, is "The Sniffer" in the room with us RIGHT NOW?

This is objectively hilarious.

[The Truth #6]

One game sample size does need some pause to not overreact. And it's end of season confusion. Yet...it was against the best team at full strength. And if nothing else shows the benefit of ball movement and shooting.

Really, my thought is about Mamu. He played great in the summer for his national team as far as I remember, and seems to have been ready to make some sort of microscopic leap in his development, but never got the chance. And that gets to my critique of Pop, which is that he does a lot of crazy things in lineups, but then also completely misses certain opportunities, like playing Graham or Mamu. Obviously they're trying to develop other players instead, but I would argue they get too attached to their draft picks and not the players who are just simply on the team.