Sniffers: It was CIA Pop playing the long game, his visionary uber skills getting us another lotto pick.
Sochan at point guard was pure Pop genius.
Realists: Sure Sniffers, whatever. We very realistically win 35 games this year with a competent lineup and strategy.
So why win 5 of the last 10 games? Going from potential #2 seed and probably #3 seed to now probably #5 seed?
*to be sure, last nights comeback win vs the Nuggets was a thing of beauty, good for the spirit. Including the foundation of the future Wemby.
But lets talk about the entire body of the season and the last 10 games.
No. They just suck. Seems obvious now the coaching staff thought this team could compete better than last year and they underestimated how low IQ the roster is collectively. Anyone trying to tell you they were just tanking this season is probably just a sniffer trying to rationalize their dumbass play in prediction before the season started tbh
I think its a little of both.
I do believe the team THOUGHT they would be better than they are. They also tried to get cute with the Sochan PG experiment which was a failure considering he looked awful and still doesn't know how to make plays.
I think once the team got to around 4-25, Pop saw the writing on the wall and realized that even with significant improvements, we aren't a playoff team and it made no sense to get there. At that point, I think the goal was just to win enough games to keep Wemby happy.
The fact that the Spurs look more compe ive now that they are playing their vets like Mamu and Graham goes to show the option was always there, they just never leaned into it.
We were NOT tanking until the last 10 games or so. When Sochan and Vassell both went down, I believe PATFO (but not the players in any fashion) began a "true" tank, but it backfired because our bench guys don't have the inflated egos that apparently Vassell and perhaps Sochan/Keldon have. These guys at the end of the bench don't mind simply taking what an offense ENTIRELY centered on Wemby gives them, and we can see the results. THIS is what those of us who argued Wemby isn't getting the ball in his spots enough meant, at least, it's what I meant. I understand his usage rate has been very high, but the mindset behind his use was very, very off. Wemby must be the focal point on this roster, with guys like Vassell taking the same role that a Graham or Champagnie would. Not because of some personal slight, but because the Spurs are better that way! The only way out of that conundrum is adding more talent. If that's via the draft, well fantastic, but I don't see it being a stopgap at all (the draft).
Rack it.
Concur 100.
That soon huh?
Even after that realization*, Popped continued to play his pets while benching Mamu, Graham etc. Was only these last 10 games or so we've seen the lineup changes and the ball sharing that came with it. Also, notice how well Wemby shares the ball back when you have competent teamates looking to play team ball?
They didn’t tank this year. Pop didn’t know how to play Wemby and Wemby didn’t know where he fits in the NBA. Wemby asked to be a 3/4 and didn’t want to play 5, hence Collins starting. Once they figured out where Wemby is most affective the players around him didn’t know how to play with/off him. Wemby also had to learn how to carry ass teammates. At this point, Wemby and Pop know the deal. They know what he can do and how to use him, and Wemby has learned how to make his teammates better, which is hard AF for a player his age.
Next year is going to be playoff year IF the FO can take what they learned this year and put better pieces around Wemby. I’m looking forward to it! As for the draft, I’d bet a firm handjob that whomever the Spurs select at 3 will still be there at 5. This draft has no can’t miss prospects, which gives the Spurs the green light to pick a surprise I’m sure Spurstalk will hate in the moment, then talk ourselves into lol
Brett Brown (L) listening to Pop having an epiphany that perhaps the Sochan pg is not working.
They absolutely were not tanking to start the year. Pop really thought in his head that Sochan at PG was a good idea, one of many reasons why he needs to be gone as head coach. They lost so many games early that there was no other option but to shift to a "tank" midseason.
Why win so many games? Because Wemby is that good of a basketball player. Even surrounding him with g leaguers he goes through 3 to 5 minute stretches 1 or twice a game where he dominates every aspect of the game. Pretty much since the all star break he has been so good that if the Spurs can just not get absolutely slaughtered while he is on the bench they have a 50 / 50 chance to win the game.
They didn't actually "figure out" anything. Bassey got hurt for the year. Then Collins had that ankle injury. Only then did Victor go to the 5. He only went to the 5 because we had no other viable options. Barlow had to be the backup 5, Pop didn't seem to know Mamu was even on the team, so that meant Victor had to start at the 5. Another reason why Pop needs to be gone. The single greatest thing that happened this season was Victor at the 5, and it happened because of injury not because of something our all time great coach figured out.
Rack it.
And Mamu and Graham only got minutes because of injuries to pets KJ and Sochan.
Thus the ball flow and competent BBIQ play began.
What's fun is that there really are only two scenarios:
1) The Spurs weren't tanking, they just have poor roster construction coupled with some terrible coaching decisions
or
2) The Spurs were tanking, but they can't even do that right
Eh, the Vegas over/under number was 28.5, right? Looks like they were going to be a lottery team no matter what. Probably more of the same next season.
^ Casual Phan weighs in.
You're hardcore?^ Casual Phan weighs in.
The most common question over the last few games is why didn’t Pop play Mamu and Devonte much this year?
Because they were tanking. We need a forward who can shoot and rebound,and a guard who can run the,pick and roll, and shoot if the defender goes under. Mamu and Devonte fit those descriptions.
I see.
And who exactly or what exactly were they tanking for?
I mean like everything else it's not really a black and white answer, right? Front office took a risk playing Sochan at PG at the beginning of the year. They probably a) thought the payout was worth it if Sochan really could magically develop PG skills b) even if he wasn't a PG that it'd help his ball handling and development and c) didn't anticipate just how bad the team would look and the subsequent effect on Wemby when they played him at PG and d) assumed that hey, it's Wemby's first year, they've got plenty of time to develop.
They've always had a hard on for big guards going back the last several years, so they resisted playing Tre Jones and Devonte because they figured that a roster with either of those guys at the point would have a hard ceiling in the future and it'd be easier to tolerate the developmental pain early rather than have a mediocre small guard established early, find out it doesn't work deep in the playoffs, and then go back and try and find a big guard later as the team is trying to compete. Ditto with Mamu and his defensive limitations. Regarding Zach Collins, they probably figured that playing a big guy at center with passing and theoretical perimeter skills next to Wemby was preferable to having a stick-thin Wemby risk injury early in his career and killing their cash cow for the next decade.
So they willingly played a worse younger lineup featuring Sochan hoping that he'd develop into the kind of player who could contribute down the road, as well as Collins to try and protect Wemby physically. Eventually, they realized they bet wrong when a) the team was a complete disaster without an actual PG and b) Wemby turned out way better than anyone expected to accelerate the timeline and c) Wemby actually held up physically as a full time 5. So they pivoted to finally playing Tre Jones full time and magically the Spurs turned into a 30-35 win quality team after the new year based on point differential. Finally toward the end of the season, the team starts to gel winning 3 in a row, and Sochan and Vassell happen to get injured. You're forced to play Devonte and Mamu again because you just lack the bodies and maybe they're trying to tank for a better draft pick, except now the team's better and Wemby's evolved into a death star so you continue winning games.
Does any of the above qualify as tanking? IDK. I don't ever think they were intentionally losing games, but certainly they made decisions in the name of development thinking they were in a low-leverage situation that obviously didn't pay off.
missing piece
Zach
Probably Topic, but the fact that they finished strong means there are probably 4-5 players that meet their needs. They also wanted to block Toronto from the bottom 4 to have a decent chance at the pick.
Exactly.
I don't know what is more frustrating. Watching this crap team play...or listening to the POP huggers tell me how brilliant he is.
So to you PATFO had the Spurs tanking the 1st 71 games, but then seeing that Topic or 4-5 other Player Xs could be had with a pick beyond say 8th....went ahead and started to try to win thus went 6-4 in the last 10 games?
Tbh this season was a season of massive ego by Pop. Idk if we started out tanking or not but I knew in the beginning of the year we were ed. I knew before the year started we were ed. Pops ego is out of control and he needs to go tbh.
Tl;dr version. Pop thought he could go into the season not knowing how to play Victor or have any plays for him. He thought he could teach Sochan and Branham how to play PG/basketball. He didn’t think he needed any vets. He thought Collins was worth 32 million more based on a tanking team last year. And he thought he could have an entire roster of people who can’t shoot, dribble, pass, or defend. Also he said we are dumb to question his process.
So sniffers are already all in on the tank next year or will delude themselves into thinking we will be good again next year bc Wemby will “improve.” Wemby can’t guard everybody, play PG, SF, and PF at the same time and Pop again will play him 28 minutes a game next year. So he will have an amazing plus minus and the team will lose a ton of games
Spurs Organization: We want to figure out what's best for Wembanyama and how he works best going forward. Right now, winning isn't important.
SpursTalk: WHAT THE ARE THEY DOING IDONTUNDERSTANND AWWAAAH WAAAH!!!???
Godamn they're constantly telling you what they're doing.
pink yourself got.
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