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  1. #1
    Mr. Dignity Solid D's Avatar
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    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...y.3538c86.html



    Web Posted: 09/04/2006 01:21 AM CDT

    San Antonio Express-News

    Manu Ginobili's final attempt at a title in Japan ended as his final attempt in San Antonio ended last spring. With a drive that produced no points.
    This time, instead of shooting as he did against the Mavericks, he passed to an open teammate who missed.

    And with that loss came another. Had Argentina beaten Spain that day and followed with another win over Greece, Ginobili would have completed an unprecedented run of global championships.

    Given that, wouldn't he have been a lock for the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    The question doesn't fit for a one-time NBA All-Star who averages below 15 points — except that some think Ginobili is already destined for the Hall of Fame. He's exactly the kind of candidate this club embraces.

    The requirements for this Hall aren't as statistically quantifiable as they are in baseball. The standards are broad and eclectic; Meadowlark Lemon and Chick Hearn are in, as well as a dozen referees.

    "Contributors" to the game are admitted, such as the same Jerry Colangelo who contributed to the latest U.S. drive for bronze. Then there's the class of 2006 that will be inducted this week.

    Everyone in America knows Charles Barkley, yet few know one of his fellow honorees, Sandro Gamba. He coached four Italian Olympic teams, winning a silver once, and he won five Italian League titles.

    This Hall invites the world, and that works for Ginobili. He, too, was an Italian League champion. That was in 2001, and every year from then until now, he won something.

    From a Euroleague title in 2001, to a silver in the World Championships in 2002, to an NBA title with the Spurs in 2003, to the Olympic gold medal in 2004, to another NBA title in 2005. No one in the history of the game has this assortment of championships.

    Had Ginobili continued the streak with a gold medal in Japan, he would have taken that résumé to a dramatic extreme. And he was close, and not just because of his final drive. A decision by his coaches provided the very deficit he had to overcome.

    Tied with less than 20 seconds remaining, Argentina fouled intentionally and let Spain shoot free throws for the lead. Why not play for the defensive stop as all NBA teams would have done? International teams would rather control their own destiny.

    Argentina would lose the next one to the Americans, and, again, coaching was an issue. Ginobili picked up his third foul with a few minutes left in the first half, and traditional American strategy would have protected him on the bench to avoid that. Instead, with three fouls, Ginobili sat the entire third period, which is when the U.S. pulled away.

    Something else was at play, too, and this signals the global turnaround that Ginobili helped create. Argentina, following such euphoria in Athens, was the one which felt deflated after losing a chance at another gold. The Americans, wanting to make a statement for the future, were more inspired to win bronze.

    Ginobili still walked away with reputation intact. He was named to the all-tournament first team, joining one Greek, two Spaniards and one Carmelo Anthony.

    Given that, Ginobili likely will spend a September weekend in Springfield, Mass., for his own Hall of Fame induction. The voters will cite his success at every stop, and how he was a South American pioneer, and how he took Argentina to a level that once seemed impossible.

    The Argentines won gold two years ago, all right. But they've also been in the semis in the last three international championships ('02 Worlds, '04 Olympics and '06 Worlds), and no other country did the same in that time.

    But these are the kinds of details that can fade in time. Perceptions can change, too, as well as the context of Ginobili's relatively low NBA numbers. In 10 years, when he's eligible, his Hall of Fame candidacy will require debate.

    But had he won in Japan?

    There would be no debate.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    bharvey@express-news.net

  2. #2
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    Buck is stretching for story. I'd like Manu to make HoF but I really don't think AR winning 06 WCs would have clinched it. As was pointed out for 08, ESP's team is a lot younger than AR's, so I think Manu's main accomplishments for HoF candidacy will be a few more All-Star selections and a couple NBA championships as one of the Big 3 Spurs. A key role on 4 NBA championship teams would be hard to argue against.

  3. #3
    Want Glory? cheer for him Cherry's Avatar
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    Manu changes his HoF for another NBA championship without thinking. He can take it personal this time
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  4. #4
    Whoa. That's deep. spurschick's Avatar
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    From a Euroleague title in 2001, to a silver in the World Championships in 2002, to an NBA title with the Spurs in 2003, to the Olympic gold medal in 2004, to another NBA title in 2005. No one in the history of the game has this assortment of championships.
    That sounds pretty damn good to me. Jeez Buck, lighten up.
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  5. #5
    He's Manu Ginobili carina_gino20's Avatar
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    with his tone, you'd think manu is a great disappointment...
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    Are all players like this? Truth is I don’t think so, I sometimes see some colleagues or rivals very relaxed, easy and smiling after the losses and I think: why I can’t be that way? At the end of the day, they are only a couple of games of the 82 that the regular season have, aren’t them?. No, there’s nothing I could do, I am this way and it really bothers me to lose, it must be on the genes.
    I know I’m gonna be fighting for a championship every year from now until my retirement, probably, as long as I play next to Tim Duncan. So, I’m gonna try to collect as many as I can.

  6. #6
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    I've argued here before that Manu is looking more and more like a Hall of Fame lock. Everytime I do, I get shouted down. What most forget is that the Basketball Hall of Fame isn't the NBA Hall of Fame, as Buck points out. Manu's resume is among the most sparkling in the world among active players, in light of his dominance in Euro play before he came to the NBA, his irreplaceable role as Argentina's leader during it's ascendancy to the top of world basketball, and his burgeoning stardom as an NBA player. In international competition, he's among the most feared players who've ever laced up a pair of basketball shoes. In the NBA, he's gaining a well-earned reputation as a guy who can take over the most important games and carry a team.

    If Drazen Petrovic is a Hall of Famer (and he is), why shouldn't Manu Ginobili be a Hall of Famer?

  7. #7
    He's Manu Ginobili carina_gino20's Avatar
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    I've argued here before that Manu is looking more and more like a Hall of Fame lock. Everytime I do, I get shouted down. What most forget is that the Basketball Hall of Fame isn't the NBA Hall of Fame, as Buck points out. Manu's resume is among the most sparkling in the world among active players, in light of his dominance in Euro play before he came to the NBA, his irreplaceable role as Argentina's leader during it's ascendancy to the top of world basketball, and his burgeoning stardom as an NBA player. In international competition, he's among the most feared players who've ever laced up a pair of basketball shoes. In the NBA, he's gaining a well-earned reputation as a guy who can take over the most important games and carry a team.

    If Drazen Petrovic is a Hall of Famer (and he is), why shouldn't Manu Ginobili be a Hall of Famer?
    more than personal accomplishments, i think that's the one reason that carries the most weight to his becoming a hall of famer.

  8. #8
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    I've argued here before that Manu is looking more and more like a Hall of Fame lock. Everytime I do, I get shouted down. What most forget is that the Basketball Hall of Fame isn't the NBA Hall of Fame, as Buck points out. Manu's resume is among the most sparkling in the world among active players, in light of his dominance in Euro play before he came to the NBA, his irreplaceable role as Argentina's leader during it's ascendancy to the top of world basketball, and his burgeoning stardom as an NBA player. In international competition, he's among the most feared players who've ever laced up a pair of basketball shoes. In the NBA, he's gaining a well-earned reputation as a guy who can take over the most important games and carry a team.

    If Drazen Petrovic is a Hall of Famer (and he is), why shouldn't Manu Ginobili be a Hall of Famer?
    Not that I have something against Manu become HF.. I never sow Manu as dominating in Europe BB as Drazen Petrović. And in NBA he never realy get chance. It is not about Manu but, today in NBA play boys who are not even close to Drazen's quality.

  9. #9
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    Manu is making the Hall because like a poster said, it's open to everyone associated with basketball, not just the NBA. Thats why, some believe Christian Laetner will make the Hall because of his amazing college career.

    Manu is pretty much a lock.

  10. #10
    noel = miel xamila rey's Avatar
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    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...y.3538c86.html

    A decision by his coaches provided the very deficit he had to overcome.
    Tied with less than 20 seconds remaining, Argentina fouled intentionally and let Spain shoot free throws for the lead. Why not play for the defensive stop as all NBA teams would have done?
    Argentina would lose the next one to the Americans, and, again, coaching was an issue.[..] Ginobili sat the entire third period, which is when the U.S. pulled away.

    Cherry since u live in Argentina,
    can u tell me if this two points were mentioned in there???
    or it is only us that dont agree with the coach decision??

  11. #11
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    The standards for getting into the HoF as an international player are not the same as getting in as an NBA player. Manu easily meets the criteria for the first, even though he will never approach the criteria for the second.

  12. #12
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    Cue dorky Mavs fans wailing at Dirk not being a candidate. Why not? No championships of any kind...

  13. #13
    perdido en latinoamérica ATX Spur's Avatar
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    If Drazen Petrovic is a Hall of Famer (and he is), why shouldn't Manu Ginobili be a Hall of Famer?
    Good point. They are both pioneers in the same way. Ginobili has transformed latin interest in basketball both in the states and in latinoamerica.

  14. #14
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Cue dorky Mavs fans wailing at Dirk not being a candidate. Why not? No championships of any kind...
    To be fair, Dirk is a great, great player in the NBA -- clearly in the handful of best players of this generation. He's consistently and legitimately a top 10 finisher in MVP voting (in top 10 every year since 2002), is perennially All-NBA, and will be a 10 or 12-time all-star at least by the time he's done. Taking into account the intangibles, he's also redefined the role of a 7 footer in the NBA game.

    Assuming he stays healthy for another 6-7 years, whether the Mavericks win an NBA title or not, I think Dirk will be a no-brainer Hall-of-Famer.
    Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 09-04-2006 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #15
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    Not that I have something against Manu become HF.. I never sow Manu as dominating in Europe BB as Drazen Petrović. And in NBA he never realy get chance. It is not about Manu but, today in NBA play boys who are not even close to Drazen's quality.
    The simple fact that Manu is being compared to Drazen Petrovic -and rightly so- is enough to put him anywhere.

  16. #16
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...y.3538c86.html



    Web Posted: 09/04/2006 01:21 AM CDT


    Everyone in America knows Charles Barkley, yet few know one of his fellow honorees, Sandro Gamba. He coached four Italian Olympic teams, winning a silver once, and he won five Italian League titles.
    Gamba was also coach of the Varese team of the 70s,
    winning four of the 5 Euroleagues (Champions League then) the team won, out of the 10 (TEN) straight finals they played.
    He was the first to coach Italy to victory in the European championship.
    Not to mention a handful italian championships he won when he personally played basketball.
    Few people contributed more to italian -and european- basketball in the 70s and 80s.
    A great figure in italian SPORTS, in fact.

  17. #17
    Want Glory? cheer for him Cherry's Avatar
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    Cherry since u live in Argentina,
    can u tell me if this two points were mentioned in there???
    or it is only us that dont agree with the coach decision??

    The coach decision was right as Manu pass the ball to the open guy. It was ok.
    Basketball is a game of mistakes but in this case, they did it all well. They lost for 1 point (2 cm of bad luck).

  18. #18
    San Antonio, I'll be there in 2008! SpursWillOwn's Avatar
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    i think i figured out why argentina wanted to foul intentionally.. because spain would make entry pass to their big men inside and manu would be so tempted to foul him.. thus, avoiding a potential 3-point play, argentina limited the spain to a maximum of 2 possible points
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  19. #19
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    with his tone, you'd think manu is a great disappointment...
    Buck Harvey is a disappointment.

    Besides, he steals his ideas from FWD!
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  20. #20
    Want Glory? cheer for him Cherry's Avatar
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    i think i figured out why argentina wanted to foul intentionally.. because spain would make entry pass to their big men inside and manu would be so tempted to foul him.. thus, avoiding a potential 3-point play, argentina limited the spain to a maximum of 2 possible points
    Exactly.
    Last edited by Cherry; 09-04-2006 at 09:57 PM.

  21. #21
    Suppose there never was an Aaron? aaronstampler's Avatar
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    Given everything I've seen about who's been voted to the basketball hall of fame in my lifetime and what they accomplished to get there, I have to conclude that Manu could retire tomorrow and be a lock to get in. Seriously, he cinched it with his major role in our 3rd championship in '05. Anything he does from here on out is gravy.

    He's basically a giant figure in international basketball and was, for a brief time, considered one of the top ten players in the NBA about 16 months ago. And for the record, I don't think he'll make at least one more all-star team and win one more ring, and it's not out of the question to seem his take one last shot with Argentina for the Olympics in '08.

  22. #22
    RIP whottt. slayermin's Avatar
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    I would be satisfied if Manu comes through on his promise he made in the alamodome last year.

  23. #23
    noel = miel xamila rey's Avatar
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    I would be satisfied if Manu comes through on his promise he made in the alamodome last year.
    me too, i will be studying in Texas next summer ..
    i cant wait to be there for the playoffs,
    and if we win, it would be just PERFECT!

  24. #24
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    The simple fact that Manu is being compared to Drazen Petrovic -and rightly so- is enough to put him anywhere.
    Yes! I never said anything else.

  25. #25
    Horny Spur BeerIsGood!'s Avatar
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    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...y.3538c86.html



    Web Posted: 09/04/2006 01:21 AM CDT

    San Antonio Express-News

    Manu Ginobili's final attempt at a title in Japan ended as his final attempt in San Antonio ended last spring. With a drive that produced no points.
    This time, instead of shooting as he did against the Mavericks, he passed to an open teammate who missed.

    And with that loss came another. Had Argentina beaten Spain that day and followed with another win over Greece, Ginobili would have completed an unprecedented run of global championships.

    Given that, wouldn't he have been a lock for the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    The question doesn't fit for a one-time NBA All-Star who averages below 15 points — except that some think Ginobili is already destined for the Hall of Fame. He's exactly the kind of candidate this club embraces.

    The requirements for this Hall aren't as statistically quantifiable as they are in baseball. The standards are broad and eclectic; Meadowlark Lemon and Chick Hearn are in, as well as a dozen referees.

    "Contributors" to the game are admitted, such as the same Jerry Colangelo who contributed to the latest U.S. drive for bronze. Then there's the class of 2006 that will be inducted this week.

    Everyone in America knows Charles Barkley, yet few know one of his fellow honorees, Sandro Gamba. He coached four Italian Olympic teams, winning a silver once, and he won five Italian League titles.

    This Hall invites the world, and that works for Ginobili. He, too, was an Italian League champion. That was in 2001, and every year from then until now, he won something.

    From a Euroleague title in 2001, to a silver in the World Championships in 2002, to an NBA title with the Spurs in 2003, to the Olympic gold medal in 2004, to another NBA title in 2005. No one in the history of the game has this assortment of championships.

    Had Ginobili continued the streak with a gold medal in Japan, he would have taken that résumé to a dramatic extreme. And he was close, and not just because of his final drive. A decision by his coaches provided the very deficit he had to overcome.

    Tied with less than 20 seconds remaining, Argentina fouled intentionally and let Spain shoot free throws for the lead. Why not play for the defensive stop as all NBA teams would have done? International teams would rather control their own destiny.

    Argentina would lose the next one to the Americans, and, again, coaching was an issue. Ginobili picked up his third foul with a few minutes left in the first half, and traditional American strategy would have protected him on the bench to avoid that. Instead, with three fouls, Ginobili sat the entire third period, which is when the U.S. pulled away.

    Something else was at play, too, and this signals the global turnaround that Ginobili helped create. Argentina, following such euphoria in Athens, was the one which felt deflated after losing a chance at another gold. The Americans, wanting to make a statement for the future, were more inspired to win bronze.

    Ginobili still walked away with reputation intact. He was named to the all-tournament first team, joining one Greek, two Spaniards and one Carmelo Anthony.

    Given that, Ginobili likely will spend a September weekend in Springfield, Mass., for his own Hall of Fame induction. The voters will cite his success at every stop, and how he was a South American pioneer, and how he took Argentina to a level that once seemed impossible.

    The Argentines won gold two years ago, all right. But they've also been in the semis in the last three international championships ('02 Worlds, '04 Olympics and '06 Worlds), and no other country did the same in that time.

    But these are the kinds of details that can fade in time. Perceptions can change, too, as well as the context of Ginobili's relatively low NBA numbers. In 10 years, when he's eligible, his Hall of Fame candidacy will require debate.

    But had he won in Japan?

    There would be no debate.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    bharvey@express-news.net
    Damn Manu, what have you done for me lately??

  26. #26
    Fan of the Ginobili sidestep bdictjames's Avatar
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    Was Duncan a hall-of-famer? I don't really know

  27. #27
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Was Duncan a hall-of-famer? I don't really know
    Tim Duncan?

    Tim Duncan is a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame.

  28. #28
    Ohhhh MommmMA !! LilMissSPURfect's Avatar
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    Damn Manu, what have you done for me lately??

    he's just warming up
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  29. #29
    perdido en latinoamérica ATX Spur's Avatar
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    Tim Duncan?

    Tim Duncan is a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame.

  30. #30
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    Never thought of Ginobli in terms of the basketball HOF but if they take into account all the int'l accomplishments like you guys say then he has a decent chance. He has zero chance based on nba accomplishments alone.

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