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  1. #1
    Roll The Dice Hook Dem's Avatar
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    For nearly 30 years I.... like many Vietnam veterans....seldom spoke of
    Vietnam, except with other veterans, when training soldiers, and in public
    speeches. These past five years I have joined the hundreds of thousands
    who believe it is high time the truth be told about the Vietnam War and the
    people who served there. It's time the American people learn that the
    United States military did not lose the War, and that a surprisingly high
    number of people who claim to have served there, in fact, DID NOT.

    As Americans support the men and women involved in the War on Terrorism,
    the mainstream media are once again working tirelessly to undermine their
    efforts and force a psychological loss or stalemate for the United States.
    We cannot stand by and let the media do to today's warriors what they did
    to us 35 years a go.

    (Take a good, hard look at how certain MSM stations and Newspapers are doing
    all they can to cast the Iraq War in bad light. Once again, they are doing all they
    can to undermine the efforts of the President, the Department Of Defense, and
    our military forces fighting the war. It is false Vietnam era reporting all over again.
    Thank God for FoxNews who at least gives us a Fair and Balanced report!
    If you believe the Communist News Network (formerly known as CNN) and the other
    MSM’s, you would think they were reporting on a totally different war. Again the
    emphasis is on what our troop might have accidentally (or intentionally, in a few cases)
    done wrong, and not all the murder and mayhem that Saddam committed, or what is being
    committed now in the name of Allah.... Same news tactics as in Vietnam... Different war...)

    Below are some assembled some facts most readers will find interesting. It
    isn't a long read, but it will....I guarantee....teach you some things you
    did not know about the Vietnam War and those who served, fought, or died
    there.
    Please share it with those with whom you communicate.

    Bruce Dwyer

    Vietnam War Facts:
    Facts, Statistics, Fake Warrior Numbers, and Myths Dispelled

    9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official
    Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.

    2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam

    Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation.

    240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War

    The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the
    509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.

    58,148 were killed in Vietnam

    75,000 were severely disabled

    23,214 were 100% disabled

    5,283 lost limbs

    1,081 sustained multiple amputations

    Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21

    11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old

    Of those killed, 17,539 were married

    Average age of men killed: 23.1 years

    Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.

    The oldest man killed was 62 years old.

    As of January 15, 2 004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for
    from the Vietnam War

    97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged

    91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served

    74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome

    Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age
    groups. (For decades, those with an agenda would have you believe that these vets were not able to get or hold jobs after returning from Vietnam)

    Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group
    by more than 18 percent.

    87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem. (For years, our news media portrayed them as otherwise... Druggies, killers, mal-contents, misfits. That was far from the truth. Some could not adjust, but most did)

    There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and
    non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans
    Administration Study)

    Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one
    percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.

    85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life. (Most of those with an agenda wouldhave you believe otherwise...)

    Interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:

    1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,
    1995 (census figures).

    ~ During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely
    claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958. (If you would like further insight into this, just read the great book by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley, “Stolen Valor, How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of it’s Heroes and History”. It details dozens and dozens of people who falsely claimed to be Vietnam vets, and who scammed and still are, the Veterans Administration)

    ~ As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving
    U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to
    believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day.
    During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have
    served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO
    CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.

    The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by
    The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S.
    military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and
    confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S.
    military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally
    listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and
    accessible 24/7/365).

    Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of
    outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities
    were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The
    United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while
    North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy.
    Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while
    Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the
    National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted
    another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level
    and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical
    personnel, social workers, and school teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers

    Common Myths Dispelled:

    Myth: Common Belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.

    Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men
    who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed
    in Vietnam were volunteers.

    Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans range
    from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran population.

    Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. "The CDC
    Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the first
    5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more likely
    among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that initial
    post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to die from
    suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year post-service
    period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam veterans' group.

    Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were
    killed in the Vietnam War.

    Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black,
    1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley
    Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be," said they
    analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam
    "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities
    amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia - a figure
    proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and
    slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of
    the war." (For decades, people with an agenda have been saying that the military
    used our black and Hispanic soldiers like cannon fodder. It is a common tactic used
    during political campaigns and other events. It is FALSE...)

    Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and
    uneducated.

    Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly
    elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or
    infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our
    nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or
    better.

    Here are statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of
    November 1993. The CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial (The
    Wall): Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years. (Although
    58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have both event date
    and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared dead date for some
    of those who were listed as missing in action)

    Deaths - Average Age
    Total: 58,148 23.11 years
    Enlisted: 50,274 22.37 years
    Officers: 6,598 28.43 years
    Warrants: 1,276 24.73 years
    E1: 525 20.34 years
    11B MOS: 18,465 22.55 years

    Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting in
    Vietnam was 19.

    Fact: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in Vietnam,
    the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam to be 19
    years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted grades have
    an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought in World War II
    was 26 years of age.

    Myth: The Common belief is that the domino theory was proved false.

    Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast
    Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and
    Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to
    Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of
    America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would
    have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore
    and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who
    live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different
    opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning
    point for Communism.

    Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as intense
    as in World War II.

    Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw
    about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam
    saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the
    helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam was a
    casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7 million who
    served. Although the percent that died is similar to other wars,
    amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in World War
    II ....75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC helicopters
    flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were airlifted (nearly
    half were American). The average time lapse between wounding to
    hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less than one
    percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24 hours, died.
    The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without the helicopter it
    would have taken three times as many troops to secure the 800 mile border
    with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the Geneva Conventions of
    1954 and the Geneva Accords or 1962 would secure the border).

    Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked
    from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972.....shown a million
    times on American television....was burned by Americans bombing Trang Bang.

    Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that
    burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village
    were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots in
    support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese pilot who
    dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United States. Even
    the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was Vietnamese. The
    incident in the photo took place on the second day of a three day battle
    between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied the village of Trang
    Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) who were trying to
    force the NVA out of the village. Recent reports in the news media that an
    American commander ordered the air strike that burned Kim Phuc are
    incorrect. There were no Americans involved in any capacity. "We
    (Americans) had nothing to do with controlling VNAF," according to
    Lieutenant General (Ret) James F. Hollingsworth, the Commanding General of
    TRAC at that time. Also, it has been incorrectly reported that two of Kim
    Phuc's brothers were killed in this incident. They were Kim's cousins not
    her brothers. (There are still those who use this incident to indict the U.S. For
    this event, though we had absolutely nothing to do with it...)

    Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.

    Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American
    military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military
    standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General
    Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike, a professor at the University of
    California, Berkley a renowned expert on the Vietnam War). This included
    Tet 68, which was a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.

    THE UNITED STATES DID NOT LOSE THE WAR IN VIETNAM, THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE
    DID. Read on........

    The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American
    military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their entirety
    29 March 1973. (Those with an agenda are still trying to hammer home the point
    that we “lost” this war... WE did not...)

    How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to an
    agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27 January
    1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal of U.S.
    forces, limitation of both sides' forces inside South Vietnam and a
    commitment to peaceful reunification. The 140,000 evacuees in April 1975
    during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of civilians and
    Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for their lives. There
    were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia)
    the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 then there were during
    the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. Thanks for the perceived
    loss and the countless assassinations and torture visited upon Vietnamese,
    Laotians, and Cambodians goes mainly to the American media and their
    undying support-by-misrepresentation of the anti-War movement in the United
    States.

    As with much of the Vietnam War, the news media misreported and
    misinterpreted the 1968 Tet Offensive. It was reported as an overwhelming
    success for the Communist forces and a decided defeat for the U.S. forces.
    Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite initial victories by the
    Communists forces, the Tet Offensive resulted in a major defeat of those
    forces. General Vo Nguyen Giap, the designer of the Tet Offensive, is
    considered by some as ranking with Wellington, Grant, Lee and MacArthur as
    a great commander. Still, militarily, the Tet Offensive was a total defeat
    of the Communist forces on all fronts. It resulted in the death of some
    45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if not total destruction of the Viet
    Cong elements in South Vietnam. The Organization of the Viet Cong Units in
    the South never recovered. The Tet Offensive succeeded on only one front
    and that was the News front and the political arena. This was another
    example in the Vietnam War of an inaccuracy becoming the perceived truth.
    However inaccurately reported, the News Media made the Tet Offensive
    famous.

    "Vietnam History"
    http://4dw.net/jqueen/history.html

    VIETNAM REMEMBERED
    http://remembervietnam.homestead.com/

    Top 100 Vietnam Veterans WebSites
    http://www.topsitelists.com/start/vi.../topsites.html

    "18th Engineers"
    http://4dw.net/jqueen/truth.html

    Movie Review: We Were Soldiers (Once.....and Young)
    http://remembervietnam.homestead.com/idrrang.html
    -----------------------------------------------

    Michael Turley
    P.O. Box 493
    Syracuse, NY 13206
    Cell - 1-315-391-1300
    e-mail- [email protected]

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  2. #2
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    The fact is that we were the bad guys in Vietnam.

    The American War: The U.S. in Vietnam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LctoUV-tag

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-ne...nemies/5604628
    (excerpt)
    --------------------------------------------
    Fake news abounded in the Times and other mainstream publications during the Vietnam War. The common perception that the paper’s editors opposed the war is misleading and essentially false. In Without Fear or Favor, former Times reporter Harrison Salisbury acknowledged that in 1962, when U.S. intervention escalated, the Times was “deeply and consistently” supportive of the war policy.8 He contends that the paper grew steadily more oppositional from 1965, culminating in the publication of the Pentagon Papers in 1971. But Salisbury fails to recognize that from 1954 to the present, the Times never abandoned the Cold War framework and vocabulary, according to which the United States was resisting another nation’s “aggression” and protecting “South Vietnam.” The paper never applied the word aggression to this country, but used it freely in referring to North Vietnamese actions and those of the National Liberation Front in the southern half of Vietnam.
    The various pauses in the U.S. bombing war in 1965 and after, in the alleged interest of “giving peace a chance,” were also the basis of fake news as the Johnson administration used these temporary halts to quiet antiwar protests, while making it clear to the Vietnamese that U.S. officials demanded full surrender. The Times and its colleagues swallowed this bait without a murmur of dissent.
    Furthermore, although from 1965 onward the Times was willing to publish more reports that put the war in a less favorable light, it never broke from its heavy dependence on official sources, or from its reluctance to confront the damage wrought on Vietnam and its civilian population by the U.S. war machine. In contrast with its eager pursuit of Cambodian refugees from the Khmer Rouge after April 1975, the paper rarely sought testimony from the millions of Vietnamese refugees fleeing U.S. bombing and chemical warfare. In its opinion columns as well, the new openness was limited to commentators who accepted the premises of the war and would confine their criticisms to its tactical problems and domestic costs. From beginning to end, those who criticized the war as an immoral campaign of sheer aggression were excluded from the debate.
    --------------------------------------------

    Noam Chomsky - The Vietnam War
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rujpY2veyuk

    What Caused the American-Vietnam War? (Noam Chomsky)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGXalPqJyeg

    Noam Chomsky Vietnam War Remembered FULL TALK + Q&A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DwzLjEWWQ
    Hold on, chief:::not until -Kennedy- conspired with Media to demonize & sell LBJ out.

  3. #3
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    "the United States military did not lose the War"

    ah jeez, not this again.

    yes, the military was on the verge of total victory in VN, for YEARS!

    If the military won the VN war , why didn't they and North VNamese stop fighting in late 60s or early 70s? Where was the NVA surrender in defeat?

    btw,

    I NEVER understood the animosity against VN vets as "baby killers", etc. I've always had great sympathy for the 50K+ killed, the 250k+ physically injured, and the Ms psychologically injured, and the distress even destruction of their families.

    Many of those poor mofos were conscripted against their will and/or believing the war was "good" for America.


    Domino theory?

    Paranoid, criminal treasonous Tricky Nixon and the treasonous Repugs scuttled the Paris Peace talks, secretly of course, just before the 1968 Pres election to deny Humphrey/Dems the electoral benefit of a signing the peace treaty and stopping the war in the final stage of the Pres campaign.

    Repugs promised the NVamese, if they pulled out of the nearly-done peace talks with the Dems, a better deal after Nixon was elected.

    And where was Nixon/Repugs's "better deal" and peace talks, and peace?, after he won in '68?

    So the VN war dragged on for 7 more years, with the 100Ks MORE of military dead and injured, unnecessarily so the Repugs could win the WH.

    VN was huge cluster by Imperial America for EVERYBODY involved, dead, injured, living. VN is still poisoned with toxins and maiming, killing VNamese with US mines, ordnance.

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