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Amazing. However, when they beat someone that won't finish in the bottom 5 of the B12 it will be more impressive.
Maybe you all remember the horrible tragedy that Baylor went through just a few short years ago with the Dennehy murder and subsequent uncovering of illegal contributions to recruit and retain players. You might also recall that led to the basketball team virtually being dismantled, placed on probation, and having to forfeit its non-conference schedule for a season.
Well it's taken a couple years, but the Baylor Men's Basketball program has bounced back in a BIG way. Currently the Bears are 15-2, having only lost to Washington State (top 10 team) and Arkansas. It should also be pointed out that they're 3-0 in the Big 12 with wins over Iowa State, OK State, and Nebraska.
Obviously the road to March gets alot steeper from here and the Bears have a long way to go, but I thought it was worth mentioning...given where they've come from in such a short time.
I'm proud to say, as a Baylor Alum, welcome back Baylor Men's Basketball!
Sic 'em Bears!
Amazing. However, when they beat someone that won't finish in the bottom 5 of the B12 it will be more impressive.
baylor joins the kansas teams as the only teams with a big 12 road win.
Last edited by K-State Spur; 01-20-2008 at 02:56 AM.
Their first since 2004 if you can believe it....
Capt Mike is right though, the Bears have yet to face a ranked big 12 opponent....until this upcoming Wednesday that is, when the Bears face the Aggies.
I'll be watching that game very closely to see how the Bears handle a better team. They've been a mixed bag thus far this year with several comeback victories but still a couple they let slip away (Washington St. in particular).
What's really important for me is that they're at least relevant again...maybe for the first time ever.
Now if we could only get that football program onboard....
A&M is in shambles right now, until Turgeon get the guys to start playign defense again we are in trouble and it would not surprise me to see Baylor come away with the win even with Drew's horrible coaching.
somebody is going to have to explain the logic to me in that A&M is still ranked 16th and KSU is only receiving a few votes.
now, i'm not saying that KSU should be ranked (yet), but both teams have similar bodies of work and the saturday result makes the rankings illogical.
then again, this is basketball and the rankings are just for fun. could you imagine if a sport were dumb enough to use the polls to actually determine a champion?
Not sure about his coaching, but I can vouch for his recruiting.And I'd say it's tough to bag on his coaching since this team is 15-2.
BTW, Baylor is #25 in the AP as of right now.
I will point to last year's Big 12 tourney game vs Texas as to his poor coaching, his offens eis basically elt his guards dribble around a chuk it from where ever, when the shots go in they are tough to beat but you can get beat easily on off nights, similar story this year vs. Wash St, Baylor had that game won and blew it thanks to Drew's tactical genius. That said he can recruit, although something iffy about him being able to get those guys in after being so terrible and the whole death of a player thing...
In general you need to be educated about Baylor Basketball, but here are some specific points where you're off...
1. Baylor often uses a four-guard lineup and runs much of their offense through their guards...that's true. But he's just playing to the strength of the team. He has one reputable low-post threat in Kevin Rogers and two "space-eaters" in Lomers and Diene that are absolutely pathetic offensively.
This weakness, in fact, is why I don't see the Bears going far in March if they're even able to get there. But they do have some VERY capable guards, any of which can light it up on a given night and propel this team to victory. Tweety Carter, Henry Dugat, Curtis Jerrells, Aaron Bruce, and freshman LaceDarius Dunn are all guards in the rotation and each of them is reliable.
Again, I understand that the Bears have a gaping hole in the frontcourt offensively, but that's the reason they rely so heavily on their guards...not because Scott Drew is some horrible coach.
2. I'm not sure what you're referring to with Drew being "so terrible", but I actually think that his ability to recruit in the face of all that adversity is indicative of just how good he is. In case you're mistaken, Dave Bliss was the coach that violated NCAA rules and was recorded telling his coaches to blame Dennehy's unclaimed money as "drug money". That wasn't Scott Drew.
In fact, the Baylor Men's Basketball team is still on probation and is probably investigated/watched closely by the NCAA for infractions. I don't think there's anything "fishy" behind his success as a recruiter. I think he pitched the "rebuilding something special" idea very well and apparently it has played.
I remember when this deal first went down, most people I knew said the program would NEVER recover. Because of Scott Drew and AD Ian McCall, an almost impossible turnaround has taken place...and in just a few short years. I'll give Scott Drew all the credit and none of the blame....he's earned my respect 10 times over.
mmm that road win was sweet for my pigs. keep doing good baylor, only makes us look better!
I am not trashing Baylor by any means, but they play junk ball, like what you would see at the Colvin. A team that runs up and down turning it over, tossing up shots, hoping that they can get a team to play their game. OSU is completely awful and darn near beat them there. OSU would have beaten them if they hadn't given in to the urge to play junk ball along with them - because OSU turns it over more than any team in the nation. You may say that this means they are good if they can make a team play their style of ball. Well maybe yes but maybe no.
Sort of like the Warriors. They play junk ball (but are actually pretty decent at it). Once someone comes along that plays consistently with structure or is better that their game than they are, they look like a bunch of goofs that just run around chunking shots and making turnovers.
BU had a poor ooc schedule, but not near as bad as atm's. Right now they are 28 on cbssportline (KU 4, UT 8, BU 28, uo 33, KS 37, atm 43, ttek 64). The only other sub-100 team is Mizzou at 88. They will most likley get waxed at atm, but if they play a close game it could help them tremendously. Follow that up with a home win over uo they could be sitting pretty. They only road north games they have left are @ KU (which would be a loss anyway) and @ CU. As of now, they have a 7-point home win over #111, an 8-point home win over #133, and a 2-point road win over #172.
arKy has a LOT of work to do. They lost to #98 SC and got run out of the gym to a #104 UGA. They have an evil stretch coming up.
After what they went through...I would love to see Baylor make the postseason, NCAA or NIT.
Baylor didn't go through anything, they helped cover up a murder for the sake of a bad basketball team, they should have been more involved in the whole Bliss thing and been quicker to act. They should have gotten a much stiffer penalty that the admittiedly harsh one they did get.
Yeah. It's kinda tough to feel sorry for Baylor when their problems were of their own making.
What kind of crap are you spewing?
First of all, there were no cover-ups in the murder of Patrick Dennehy or the whereabouts of his dead body. Certainly, the University wasn't complicit in any kind of cover up of the sort.
Second, the restrictions and infractions had NOTHING to do with Dennehy's death, but instead were the result of an independent investigation that uncovered hidden payments, etc.
While I don't condone the action of giving illegal contributions to recruit or retain players, this sort of business happens in all sports of many schools all across the country.
The only reason that this was particularly stinging is because of the tragedy that surrounded the situation. And it was compounded by the fact that Dave Bliss, not the University President or AD or Assistant Coaches or anyone currently employed by Baylor, instructed his coaches to cover up the illegal contributions...not Dennehy's death as you claim.
Truly a de able act on the part of Bliss to be sure, but there is no evidence that other University officials had prior knowledge of the illegal contributions or were complicit in any kind of cover up.
Again I have to remind you to be a little more educated on the topic before you speak about it. Did you not learn to do a little research between posts?
no pun intended but based on the infractions Baylor should have gotten the death penalty for the stuff Bliss was doing, there has not been that bad of cheating since the old SWC days.
I understand that like any other school that was penalized as a result of recruiting/retention infractions, Baylor had to pay its dues and was entirely responsible for what had taken place.
But, these problems were not of Scott Drew or the new AD's making. Drew came in the aftermath of this tragedy and worked within the boundaries of his limitations to build a program from the ground up. I'm just happy to see that he has been successful at bringing players in and turning around a program that was in the gutter just a few short years ago.
THAT is what I'm praising.
The current kids on the roster shouldn't have to pay for the transgressions of those who were there before. I agree with Tony. I am not talking about the recruiting infractions...I am talking about what the new coach and AD as well as these current kids are doing now.
Just don't beat the Horns.
I understand this. Just saying - from my perspective - I'm don't exactly see Baylor as this great 'feel good' story when they themselves dug the hole that they are trying to climb out of. (However, I'm the type of personality that believes the man who never got into drugs deserves more praise than the reformed addict, even if the latter is dealing with a higher degree of difficulty.)
Drew and the kids should be praised by Baylor fans for what they are accomplishing, but it's not like they were unjustly punished either. They were all well aware of what they were signing up for at this point.
I think they were referring to the fact that Bliss told players to make up a story about Dennehy being a drug dealer in order to pay for his tuition. The story was intended to serve as a cover-up for Bliss paying Dennehy's tuition. It also emerged that Bliss and his staff knew about rampant marijuana and alcohol abuse among Baylor players, but did not follow procedures for reporting failed drug tests. Then there was also the 'Stevens Party' at BU, and a couple other recruiting violations. All of which amounts either to gross negligence (if the school knew about any of it) or serious lack of ins utional control (if they knew nothing about all this happening right under their nose).
Maybe you need to be more educated about the topic yourself, or at the very least don't omit very important parts of the story for your own benefit.
I didn't omit anything and I didn't infer anything other than what was inherently implied. If he wanted to be specific about what he meant by cover-up, then he should've been.
In regards to the specific instances you brought up, I haven't denied that there was wrongdoing.
I put the actions behind the attempted cover-up of illegal tuition payments directly on Dave Bliss, which I highlighted in nearly every post on the subject.
Secondly, I understand the issue with ignoring drug/alcohol abuse and the other recruiting violations. I do agree that it cons uted gross negligence on the part of the University.
I have NEVER condoned or justified any of the actions and believe that Baylor was justly dealt with as a response to the infractions. In fact, Baylor probably saved itself from the "death penalty" by ins uting some self-imposed probation and not fighting the ban of non-conference games in 2005.
Regardless, all of this is missing the point of the thread...
I created it to say that I was proud that individuals (players, coaches, and the AD) not associated with the original scandal for undertaking such a rebuilding effort and turning around a program that was in the dumps...and again, I'm NOT saying that Baylor didn't deserve to lose all the scholarships, to get stripped of the non-conference games for a season, or to undergo a general probationary period.
Believe me, I'm knowledgeable on the subject. I attended Baylor when the whole scandal took place and was intimately familiar with the details.
Well for me, the more B12 teams playing well, the better for the conference.
The logic that the current student-athletes should not pay for past transgressions is not the way the NCAA operates, ask the kids at SMU if they should still be a bottom feeder b/c of the cheating that went on back in the day. The feel good story loses its shine a little when the program was so corrupt and should maybe not even be playing. Drew is somehow getting highly rated kids to come to what is a hole (Waco), I have a real hard time believing he is on the up and up. I guess time will tell.
I agree, but IMO that doesn't make it right.
Truth be told, any basketball program that recruits top 150 players (and even many that don't) is not really on the "up and up."
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