The Beno Trade Exception, Again

[tav1]

Now that teams have "new" rosters, we might be able to reassess the best use of the Beno Trade Exception.

Two players previously listed that come right to mind are Shawne Williams and Renaldo Balkman. Their future with their current team is murkier this morning than last night.

Since the Spurs drafted two guards, and still have free agent money to spend on a vet sg, I'd think he Spurs will target swing or front court player with the exception.

And, of course, I'm assuming that Hairston and Gist don't make the team.

[Bruno]

timvp's list was well made :
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98854

Let's look at the post draft situation :

Nets :
They have added 3 PF/C (Yi, Lopez and Anderson). They ahve now a huge logjam at PF/C with 6 young players (Yi, Lopez, Anderson, Krstic, Sean Williams and josh Boone). Are Josh Boone and Sean Williams available ?

Knicks :
They have drafted Galinari, who is mainly a SF. Chandler and Balkman can't shoot, will they fit D'Antoni offense ?

Sixers :
They are under the cap and dumping Jason Smith or Rodney Carney could help them to go after a major FA by opening more cap room.

Raptors :
They could face some luxury tax trouble. Could they give Spurs some incentives (like Jamario Moon) if Spurs absorb Joe Graham contract ?
It must happens before July 1st.

Pacers :
They face some luxury tax troubles and they are fed up with Shawne Williams.

Wizards :
They have drafted Javalee McGee and face the luxury tax. Oleksiy Pecherov should be available.

Rockets :
They face the luxury tax and have drafted Joey Dorsey. Chuck Hayes could be dumped. The trade should be done before July 1st.

Jazz :
Is Morris Almond in their plans ?
With Koufos coming, what will they do with Kyrilo Fesenko ?

Warriors :
Marco Belineli could be in Nelson's doghouse.

Suns :
Cheap owner and Luxury Tax. They could dump Alando Tucker.

[Darkwaters]

Wow...I like some of those names. I think the emphasis should be on a scoring wing...but there is a lot to like about that list.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Of that list, only Sean Williams and Alando Tucker are the ones I like. They have the ability to fill the needs we have to address (long 3/swing, respectively), but if they can't they can always be sent to the D-League for development, something very few on that list can do.

[kobyz]

i'll take Shawne Williams, he is a long 3

[MoSpur]

Use it for a physical defender in the middle.

[pad300]

timvp's list was well made :
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98854

Let's look at the post draft situation :

...
Knicks :
They have drafted Galinari, who is mainly a SF. Chandler and Balkman can't shoot, will they fit D'Antoni offense ?

...


I don't know if we have the assets, but David Lee might be on the list of Knicks available....

http://www.knickerblogger.net/index.php/2008/06/27/the-death-knell-of-david-lee-as-a-knick/

I'd certainly take a long look and try if I thought there was any possibility.

[Pucho!!!]

timvp's list was well made :
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98854

Let's look at the post draft situation :

Nets :
They have added 3 PF/C (Yi, Lopez and Anderson). They ahve now a huge logjam at PF/C with 6 young players (Yi, Lopez, Anderson, Krstic, Sean Williams and josh Boone). Are Josh Boone and Sean Williams available ?

Knicks :
They have drafted Galinari, who is mainly a SF. Chandler and Balkman can't shoot, will they fit D'Antoni offense ?

Sixers :
They are under the cap and dumping Jason Smith or Rodney Carney could help them to go after a major FA by opening more cap room.

Raptors :
They could face some luxury tax trouble. Could they give Spurs some incentives (like Jamario Moon) if Spurs absorb Joe Graham contract ?
It must happens before July 1st.

Pacers :
They face some luxury tax troubles and they are fed up with Shawne Williams.

Wizards :
They have drafted Javalee McGee and face the luxury tax. Oleksiy Pecherov should be available.

Hornets :
They face the luxury tax and have drafted Joey Dorsey. Chuck Hayes could be dumped. The trade should be done before July 1st.

Jazz :
Is Morris Almond in their plans ?
With Koufos coming, what will they do with Kyrilo Fesenko ?

Warriors :
Marco Belineli could be in Nelson's doghouse.

Suns :
Cheap owner and Luxury Tax. They could dump Alando Tucker.

I like bellineli

[Darkwaters]

I like Morris Almond, Marco Bellineli and Alando Tucker. Joey Graham would be ok too if Jamario Moon was tossed in.

[Mr. Body]

I like Morris Almond, Marco Bellineli and Alando Tucker. Joey Graham would be ok too if Jamario Moon was tossed in.

:lol at Jermario Moon as a toss-in.

[tav1]

Just sourcing timVPs trade exception list in light of the Maggette/Barry news.

Of the names he lists, Almond strikes me as a possibility. He might stink snd Hairston might be good. Or vice versa. So we wouldn't want to make a move like that until after summer league.

And Balkman still appeals to me, but because his energy and hustle are always welcome. We have enough scorers (assuming Maggette), we could use a high end garbage guy. His help defense shot blocking is first rate, too.

[TDMVPDPOY]

alando tucker makes alot of sense since we were going to draft him for a bowen project but he was off the board when it was our turn to pick

[tav1]

alando tucker makes alot of sense since we were going to draft him for a bowen project but he was off the board when it was our turn to pick

If we get Maggette, I'm throwing my vote in for Walter Herrman. He'd provide the right floor spacing at the right price.

[Indazone]

timvp's list was well made :
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98854

Let's look at the post draft situation :

Nets :
They have added 3 PF/C (Yi, Lopez and Anderson). They ahve now a huge logjam at PF/C with 6 young players (Yi, Lopez, Anderson, Krstic, Sean Williams and josh Boone). Are Josh Boone and Sean Williams available ?

Knicks :
They have drafted Galinari, who is mainly a SF. Chandler and Balkman can't shoot, will they fit D'Antoni offense ?

Sixers :
They are under the cap and dumping Jason Smith or Rodney Carney could help them to go after a major FA by opening more cap room.

Raptors :
They could face some luxury tax trouble. Could they give Spurs some incentives (like Jamario Moon) if Spurs absorb Joe Graham contract ?
It must happens before July 1st.

Pacers :
They face some luxury tax troubles and they are fed up with Shawne Williams.

Wizards :
They have drafted Javalee McGee and face the luxury tax. Oleksiy Pecherov should be available.

Hornets :
They face the luxury tax and have drafted Joey Dorsey. Chuck Hayes could be dumped. The trade should be done before July 1st.

Jazz :
Is Morris Almond in their plans ?
With Koufos coming, what will they do with Kyrilo Fesenko ?

Warriors :
Marco Belineli could be in Nelson's doghouse.

Suns :
Cheap owner and Luxury Tax. They could dump Alando Tucker.

Uhhh don't you think you mean Rockets instead of Hornets? :nope

[Indazone]

You also left off the Hawks who have to make some serious salary decisions.

[Obstructed_View]

What are the odds of the Spurs throwing the TE at a team like the Nuggets to get them to trade JR after matching? Is it even legal?

[Marcus Bryant]

What are the odds of the Spurs throwing the TE at a team like the Nuggets to get them to trade JR after matching? Is it even legal?

Basically. The Spurs would have to take back a contract. Though I'm not sure why the Spurs would help make it easier for the Nuggets to match an offer sheet in that scenario.

[fyatuk]

What are the odds of the Spurs throwing the TE at a team like the Nuggets to get them to trade JR after matching? Is it even legal?

Uhh. The trade exception is worth what, 1.8 mil or something to that effect, and cannot be used in conjunction with anything else. You cannot use it to sign players (though it could be used to pick someone off waivers, that doesn't apply right now), you cannot combine it with anything, but you can use it in parts.

There really isn't much you can do with it. Aka, there's not really any way to use it as an incentive like you suggest except by using it to take on a player that makes that much or less the Nuggets would want to dump.

[Obstructed_View]

Uhh. The trade exception is worth what, 1.8 mil or something to that effect, and cannot be used in conjunction with anything else. You cannot use it to sign players (though it could be used to pick someone off waivers, that doesn't apply right now), you cannot combine it with anything, but you can use it in parts.

There really isn't much you can do with it. Aka, there's not really any way to use it as an incentive like you suggest except by using it to take on a player that makes that much or less the Nuggets would want to dump.

Ah. I knew you couldn't combine it with a player, but I didn't know you couldn't trade it for a player, at least one that would involve more money on top. It'd be nice if it was more like an NBA gift card.

[Darkwaters]

Heres the way I look at things with the potential of Maggette coming. If Maggs does join the team then I wouldn't mind them walking away from Finley and Barry...if they can get another swingman with reasonable playability. Maggs will miss 10-15 games a year minimum. He just seems to be hurt a fair amount. Of course, if we're winning he might simply play through the pain at times whereas he had little desire to do that with the Clips. But still, he'll miss some games. So at the swing spots heres who I have now (assuming Maggs):

Bowen/Ginobili
Maggette/Udoka

Typically you think of carrying 3 players at each position on a roster, so 6 wings total. That does not HAVE to be the case but it makes a lot of sense. Of course, it's hard enough to find PT for 5 players, let alone 6, so one of them should be a project for Austin I'd think. And that 5th man in the rotation probably won't see just a whole lot of PT. Hence:

Bowen/Ginobili/Hairston or Gist
Maggette/Udoka

...you add in Hairston/Gist and plan on IRing him for the season. He can mature in Austin and step in if needed.

However, we've already established that Maggette is hurt for quite a few games a season. And Ginobili has been known to miss time as well. So you want to have a player in that 5th swing slot that would be capable of stepping in and supplying quality minutes when and if injuries happen. Udoka did a fine job of this last season. Idealy, Hairston would be as NBA ready as some think and we could simply use this rotation:

Bowen/Ginobili/Hairston
Maggette/Udoka/Gist

Gist and Hairston could sit in Austin and develop instead of rotting on the bench and not getting PT. But if an injury happened then Hairston could be recalled and play as the 4th swing until the injured player returned. It would help our payroll by having two very cheap 2nd rounders, help the youth movement, and it would help the Toros. Plus, Gist would have time to develop and not be simply thrown to the wind as some think he will be.

However, Hairston probably cannot step in and play that role from day 1. He probably will take more refining than we realize. He was, afterall, the 48th pick for a reason.

Filling this 5th spot could be done in a variety of ways. The way that makes, perhaps, the most sense is simply resigning Barry or Finley. Both know the system and could be effective in limited minutes (especially Barry).

However, I think I'd prefer to see the Spurs use this trade exception to acquire a 2nd or 3rd year player that has fallen from grace with his team. He'll already have a decent amount of NBA experience and could probably fill that 5th role decently. But would you prefer a scorer or a defender? B/c none of these guys really seem capable of doing both.

Your choices really are Alando Tucker, Marco Belinelli, Morris Almond, Shawne Williams, Joey Graham, Wilson Chandler, Renaldo Balkman and Rodney Carney. Tucker, Belinelli, Almond and Chandler all still have a year of NBADL elligibility left. The rest do not. That is a plus for them, because when nobody is hurt they could be developing in Austin instead of rotting at the end of the bench. But who do you think would be the best fit?

Personally, I'd like either Carney or Balkman the best. Balkman cannot score hardly at all, but hes a great guy to have for everything else. Of course, Carney is decent at a lot of things, and very athletic, but doesn't stand out in as many areas like Balkman. I would be tempted by Almond or Tucker, but they both were ineffective last year, leading me to be skeptical about picking them up. What would you think guys?

Bowen/Ginobili/Hairston
Maggette/Udoka/Balkman or Carney

[fyatuk]

Ah. I knew you couldn't combine it with a player, but I didn't know you couldn't trade it for a player, at least one that would involve more money on top. It'd be nice if it was more like an NBA gift card.

Actually, I'd have to double check. You should probably be able to trade for a player who is within the %over you could normally have traded for, whatever that is (slips my mind at the moment). TEs are hard to use (mainly because you can't package it or use it on FAs), and they only last for a year from the day of the trade.

[tmtcsc]

If we get Maggette, I'm throwing my vote in for Walter Herrman. He'd provide the right floor spacing at the right price.


:rolleyes Has this guy ever gotten good minutes in the NBA ? After a while, you have to believe he is either injury prone or just isn't suited to the NBA game. I love the Argentinian players but they aren't all made to play in this league.

[pad300]

It is my understanding you can in fact trade a trade exception. It has no cash value according to the CBA, just like a draft pick or a players rights. What a trade exception allows you to do is to recieve a contract without sending back an equivalent value in contracts (within 25% +/- $100,000), assuming you are over the Cap (note Cap << luxury tax limit). Therefore you could send the TE to Denver for nothing, and they then choose not to match an offer to JR Smith. This would leave Denver with a 1.8 million TE to use as they chose (and it might even reset the expiry date on the TE) while picking up players. When they say you can't combine a TE and a player, what they mean is that you can't take that 1.8 million TE and Bonner (3 million per year), and package them to take back a player with a contract worth 4.8 million....

[Bruno]

Therefore you could send the TE to Denver for nothing, and they then choose not to match an offer to JR Smith.

No you can't for two reasons :
First, you can't trade a TE by itself. You don't trade a TE. You can just use it to get players.
Second, you can't send another team an incentive to not match an offer sheet.

[Marcus Bryant]

It is my understanding you can in fact trade a trade exception. It has no cash value according to the CBA, just like a draft pick or a players rights. What a trade exception allows you to do is to recieve a contract without sending back an equivalent value in contracts (within 25% +/- $100,000), assuming you are over the Cap (note Cap << luxury tax limit). Therefore you could send the TE to Denver for nothing, and they then choose not to match an offer to JR Smith. This would leave Denver with a 1.8 million TE to use as they chose (and it might even reset the expiry date on the TE) while picking up players. When they say you can't combine a TE and a player, what they mean is that you can't take that 1.8 million TE and Bonner (3 million per year), and package them to take back a player with a contract worth 4.8 million....

Yeah, you can "trade" a trade exception by taking back a contract. But you can't trade it for cash, for example.

[Obstructed_View]

It is my understanding you can in fact trade a trade exception. It has no cash value according to the CBA, just like a draft pick or a players rights. What a trade exception allows you to do is to recieve a contract without sending back an equivalent value in contracts (within 25% +/- $100,000), assuming you are over the Cap (note Cap << luxury tax limit). Therefore you could send the TE to Denver for nothing, and they then choose not to match an offer to JR Smith. This would leave Denver with a 1.8 million TE to use as they chose (and it might even reset the expiry date on the TE) while picking up players. When they say you can't combine a TE and a player, what they mean is that you can't take that 1.8 million TE and Bonner (3 million per year), and package them to take back a player with a contract worth 4.8 million....

I'd originally been thinking that you have them match the offer and trade the player for the TE, but it's basically the same outcome. However, they've already made a qualifying offer; I doubt they can rescind it.

[fyatuk]

It is my understanding you can in fact trade a trade exception. It has no cash value according to the CBA, just like a draft pick or a players rights. What a trade exception allows you to do is to recieve a contract without sending back an equivalent value in contracts (within 25% +/- $100,000), assuming you are over the Cap (note Cap << luxury tax limit). Therefore you could send the TE to Denver for nothing, and they then choose not to match an offer to JR Smith.

Well, if you want to get technical, a trade exception is the %+100k difference allowed in salary matching.

What the Spurs technically did is a non-simultaneous trade. Basically they have a trade where they've completed the outgoing part, but not the incoming. They can complete the incoming part anytime within a year with any player (who's salary fit as part of the trade) who is under contract with another team.

What you're suggesting is basically retroactively trading Beno to Denver so Denver could trade him to Minnesota. That doesn't work.

[DPG21920]

Josh Boone would help out so much, he is the guy on the list that would be sick to get, I doubt they will let him go.