Bucks Want to Trade Villanueva - Any chance the Spurs get in on this?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bucks Looking To Get Rid Of Villanueva

The Bucks are looking to get rid of Charlie Villanueva as soon as possible, according to The New York Daily News.

Must people don't expect Villanueva to last very long with with Scott Skiles running the show in Milwaukee.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53275/20080629/bucks_looking_to_get_rid_of_villanueva/

[mystargtr34]

If they want Matt Bonner in return... sure.

[Sway]

I say go for it, I just dont know what we could offer in return.

[misterx91578]

no harm in seeing what they want in return

[George Gervin's Afro]

we have nothing to offer.

[Spurtacus]

Bonner + 2nd round pick + cash (if needed)

[Darkwaters]

How about this?

You sign Karaulov and Javtokas to minimum non-guaranteed 2nd round contracts. Then you trade them and the Beno trade exception to the Bucks for Villanueva. The Bucks then simply waive Karaulov and Javtokas and pay virtually nothing.

:toast



...kidding of course. But it could work, right?

[K-State Spur]

why would they want to?

he's not much a defender, only a mediocre rebounder for his height, and he's one of the worst shooters in the league, yet jacks up shots left and right.

[Brutalis]

Pass. Scrub. Half assed player even on the Bucks.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How about this?

You sign Karaulov and Javtokas to minimum non-guaranteed 2nd round contracts. Then you trade them and the Beno trade exception to the Bucks for Villanueva. The Bucks then simply waive Karaulov and Javtokas and pay virtually nothing.

:toast



...kidding of course. But it could work, right?

Except for the fact you can't combine the trade exception with players...

[ashbeeigh]

He's old right? Sign him!

[The Truth #6]

Doghouse resident.

[romad_20]

He's old right? Sign him!


He's not old. this is 3rd or 4th year.

[tav1]

Sign me up yesterday. In February, just before the deadline, I lobbied for Villanueva.

Villanueva is not great, but he can score in bunches and could space the floor for Timmy. He'd put a slight wrinkle in the offense--a spacing 4 that can also put the ball on the floor. The Spurs big struggles in recent years have come on offense, so I'm willing to look past Villanueva's defensive short comings. And he's not a bad rebounder, he's just often too far away from the hoop from chucking threes.

If Bonner and a 2nd can get it done, the Spurs should do it. The other option is a sign and trade of Finley. Over pay Fin on a one year expiring to protect the Bucks from taking a cap hit. But then you run into roster space issues and almost certainly have to buy out Vaughn.

My only problem is that the trade would affect Mahinmi's minutes. But a front court of Duncan, Thomas, Oberto, Mahinmi and Villanueva is really versatile and viable. Add Gist or Benson to the number, and I'm super happy with what the Spurs have going into next season.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'll be extremely angry if this happens..

he's a chucker with low basketball IQ..he doesn't play defense and doesn't rebound particularly well for a big man..

he doesn't belong on this team at all, and wouldn't be successful on any West powerhouse..

[Spur-Addict]

He's an upgrade, plus he can stretch the court and finish. He needs to stay healthy, also, he needs to be a bit more determined on defense. He's capable in my opinion. He's better than Horry and Bonner, plus I think he has only one year left on his contract. The salary fits, i'm up for it. We still have other needs but i'm up for it. He would have very limited minutes of course, and he'd have to respect the system.

[tav1]

I'll be extremely angry if this happens..

he's a chucker with low basketball IQ..he doesn't play defense and doesn't rebound particularly well for a big man..

he doesn't belong on this team at all, and wouldn't be successful on any West powerhouse..

He's a big with a respectable 3 pt shot; he does shoot too much.

He's never been challenged to play D.

He boards fine for his minutes and placement on the floor.

He can have occassional scoring outbursts, and is a big upgrade over Bonner--with a shorter contract to boot. If you can turn Bonner and a 2nd into Villanueva on a one year flier, you don't even think about it. You do it. It's not even a debate.

I think it's all a moot point, though. The Bucks can probably get more value than Bonner and a 2. And we don't have much else to offer.

[spursjustice]

How's his work ethic and attitude? If he's willing to learn defense and play within the system, it may benefit the team.

[tav1]

How's his work ethic and attitude? If he's willing to learn defense and play within the system, it may benefit the team.

Poor.

But, hell, I don't care. He fills out the front court rotation, would be on an expiring contract, could be moved in February for a pick or something....

Low risk/high reward.

[Gorge Hill]

Hey, get it done RC. As long as you know me, George Hill is as untouchable as Kobe, and the Machine.

[K-State Spur]

He's a big with a respectable 3 pt shot; he does shoot too much.


no it's not and yes he does. 29.7% on 185 attempts.

[Gorge Hill]

no it's not and yes he does. 29.7% on 185 attempts.

Mr George Hill shot that kind of percentage will Tony's wifey hanging on my sexy arm.

[ss1986v2]

Sign me up yesterday. In February, just before the deadline, I lobbied for Villanueva.

Villanueva is not great, but he can score in bunches and could space the floor for Timmy. He'd put a slight wrinkle in the offense--a spacing 4 that can also put the ball on the floor.
i usually agree with you tav, but im not with you here. im just not sure if you can effectively have him out there to "stretch the floor" when hes hitting at a sub-30% rate (29.7% last season).

sure, he can score a bit, but he does it so inefficiently that im not sure its actually that big a positive. take a look at his per36 number next to finleys numbers the last 3 years. CV scores about 3 more ppg, but on about 3 more fg attempts. and he does it at a lower percentage (47 eFG%, 50 TS% vs 50 eFG%, 52 TS% last season). to be fair though, his number the two previous season where a bit better (50 eFG% and 54 TS% average those years).

CV seems like a younger, bigger, athletic, rebounding finley, whose more turnover prone, fouls at a much higher rate, isnt as efficient or nearly as accurate from 3, and is just as bad a defender (not so much a direct comparison of the two, just of their contributions on the court). i guess if the price was low (bonner and a 2nd) i couldnt complain, but i wouldnt be ecstatic about the deal. a part of me would rather see what bonner could do over a good stretch with solid PT before i took a flier on CV (and thats a scary thought).

[K-State Spur]

to be honest, if you give them the same minutes, I think you get more out of Bonner than Villanueva.

[tav1]

to be honest, if you give them the same minutes, I think you get more out of Bonner than Villanueva.

No way.

Villanueva's numbers were down a little last year, and he's never had a true big to play off of. But his career percentages are at 31 or 32 from 3, which isn't that much worse than what Bonner has given the Spurs.

But Villanueva can do all sorts of things offensively that Bonner would never attempt. In the end, my support of Villanueva is anchored in his ability to create points as a 7th or 8th man.

Bonner, for whatever reason, hasn't been a great fit in San Antonio. His numbers have gone down despite greater familiarity with the system. Pop doesn't have confidence in him. He's a roster spot we could use. And in two years, he hasn't come close to convincing me he can play within the Spurs defensive schemes. He tries real hard, but two years in still misses rotations and looks lost and helpless. On athleticism alone, Villanueva could be an improvement on d, and he can't be worse.

Yada yada yada. We'll probably just have to disagree here. Villanueva on an expiring deal for Bonner and a 2 is all I'd give, but if that's all it would cost, I'd do it, despite Villanueva's wobbly percentages.

[tav1]

i usually agree with you tav, but im not with you here. im just not sure if you can effectively have him out there to "stretch the floor" when hes hitting at a sub-30% rate (29.7% last season).

sure, he can score a bit, but he does it so inefficiently that im not sure its actually that big a positive. take a look at his per36 number next to finleys numbers the last 3 years. CV scores about 3 more ppg, but on about 3 more fg attempts. and he does it at a lower percentage (47 eFG%, 50 TS% vs 50 eFG%, 52 TS% last season). to be fair though, his number the two previous season where a bit better (50 eFG% and 54 TS% average those years).

CV seems like a younger, bigger, athletic, rebounding finley, whose more turnover prone, fouls at a much higher rate, isnt as efficient or nearly as accurate from 3, and is just as bad a defender (not so much a direct comparison of the two, just of their contributions on the court). i guess if the price was low (bonner and a 2nd) i couldnt complain, but i wouldnt be ecstatic about the deal. a part of me would rather see what bonner could do over a good stretch with solid PT before i took a flier on CV (and thats a scary thought).

i see all the same warts you do....but Bonner and a 2nd is, as you suggest, worth the gamble

[T Park]

Villanueva sucks.

If he couldn't last under Skiles he ain't gonna last under Pop.


Pass.

[Spurtacus]

Poor.

But, hell, I don't care. He fills out the front court rotation, would be on an expiring contract, could be moved in February for a pick or something....

Low risk/high reward.

Players thrive in a contract year. Might be worth a shot next season.

[K-State Spur]

No way.

Villanueva's numbers were down a little last year, and he's never had a true big to play off of. But his career percentages are at 31 or 32 from 3, which isn't that much worse than what Bonner has given the Spurs.

But Villanueva can do all sorts of things offensively that Bonner would never attempt. In the end, my support of Villanueva is anchored in his ability to create points as a 7th or 8th man.

I'm not really sure that's true. First, Villanueva - even at his best - should not be shooting 3s...period. There's a big difference between 32% (villanueva's career percentage) and 39% (bonner's career percentage).

Villanueva, despite receiving consistent PT, is almost allergic to the paint offensively. He does not drive to the rim or get to the line at all.

They're both terrible defenders, but at least with Bonner you get some energy.

And, while it was his rookie year, CV did play off of Chris Bosh for a year.

[urunobili]

Villanueva> Bonner

[tav1]

I'm not really sure that's true. First, Villanueva - even at his best - should not be shooting 3s...period. There's a big difference between 32% (villanueva's career percentage) and 39% (bonner's career percentage).

Villanueva, despite receiving consistent PT, is almost allergic to the paint offensively. He does not drive to the rim or get to the line at all.

They're both terrible defenders, but at least with Bonner you get some energy.

And, while it was his rookie year, CV did play off of Chris Bosh for a year.

The career percentages are a little deceptive in that I'm not sure Bonner fits in San Antonio the way he fit in Toronto.

Allergic to the paint is a bit strong, but he does score facing the hoop. But I think this is a good reason to think he'd fit nicely alongside Duncan.

And when he played off Bosh, he had a 48 pt game. Look he's an offensive player that is good for 12 pts and 6 reb in 20 minutes or so. I'd take that.

But we're going around in circles. And there is no indication that the Spurs have any interest in him. I'll bow out here.

[kobyz]

i see all the same warts you do....but Bonner and a 2nd is, as you suggest, worth the gamble

way the hell would the Bucks will want Bonner!?!?!?!?!? Guys you need to be more realistic

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Charlie's a volume shooter and needs lots of touches to be productive. Pass.

[tav1]

way the hell would the Bucks will want Bonner!?!?!?!?!? Guys you need to be more realistic

As you can see from the other posts, I'm pro Villanueva. But I think you overestimate his value. The Bucks want to get rid of him, period. He's clashes with the coach--they'll move him for cheap. Also, as you can see from other threads, K-State makes a strong case the Villanueva is not any better than Bonner. I disagree. But hey, you know, it's debatable.

[kobyz]

As you can see from the other posts, I'm pro Villanueva. But I think you overestimate his value. The Bucks want to get rid of him, period. He's clashes with the coach--they'll move him for cheap. Also, as you can see from other threads, K-State makes a strong case the Villanueva is not any better than Bonner. I disagree. But hey, you know, it's debatable.

Bonner sucks!! he is the most inferior player in the NBA, why anybody will want him on his team, why someone will want to spend 3 milion $ on him, Villanueva has some talent, Bonner can't play!!

[pad300]

I'd happily do a Bonner for Villaneuva trade (even with a 2nd thrown in). Look at Knickerblogger.net 's stats page. CVill has a better rebound rate (15.0 to 13.3) PER (15.1 to 12.54). Both are pretty useless on D. CVill is younger and it might be possible to break his bad habits...

[K-State Spur]

The career percentages are a little deceptive in that I'm not sure Bonner fits in San Antonio the way he fit in Toronto.


Bonner did shoot 38% in his first year with the club (basically his career average), so I wouldn't say that is true. I would attribute the main difference to his playing time being a bit more consistent that year (pre-injury) than it was this season.

[kobyz]

i can't belive to what i read, Bonner is worthless, no team will take him even if we paid them to take him. you just sound pathetic when you think that we can get some value for Bonner.

[K-State Spur]

Bonner sucks!! he is the most inferior player in the NBA, why anybody will want him on his team, why someone will want to spend 3 milion $ on him, Villanueva has some talent, Bonner can't play!!

I agree that Bonner is overpaid and I would love to see the team be able to dump his contract.

I just don't think CV gives you much more. His offense (which requires too many shots to get) would not justify his defense to the point that I think he would end up in Pop's doghouse very quickly with little hope for reprieve.

[kobyz]

I agree that Bonner is overpaid and I would love to see the team be able to dump his contract.

I just don't think CV gives you much more. His offense (which requires too many shots to get) would not justify his defense to the point that I think he would end up in Pop's doghouse very quickly with little hope for reprieve.

but he has talent, he just need to be more focus, he once score 48 in a game, he can rebound, he is 10 times much better then Bonner

[Marcus Bryant]

Bonner for CV would be great. Lesser $ left on his contract and it ends next summer. Perfect scenario to do a sign and trade then. But it won't happen.

[Spur-Addict]

wCDVO9TojsM

He has the tools to be a decent defender, everyone cannot be Tim or Bruce. He's an upgrade from Bonner and the ever older horry who only plays portions of the year. We need regular season relief and that cannot be denied.

[ashbeeigh]

He's not old. this is 3rd or 4th year.

Maybe he just looks old to me. Darn it.

[K-State Spur]

but he has talent, he just need to be more focus, he once score 48 in a game, he can rebound, he is 10 times much better then Bonner

Tracy Murray once scored 50 in a game.

And while CV does out-rebound Bonner, it's by only a slight margin.

I would be alright with it because yes, he does have a higher ceiling than Bonner + his contract expires earlier and we'd be rid of Bonner's deal.

I just don't think he'd be a guy Pop would target or that he would be much of an upgrade over the Red Rocket.

[wisnub]

If we could get him,its great!!!! I saw many of his game when he played in NCAA, he's energy guy, and active on boards,and occasionally shoots 3. He's really young as well considering he's going to NBA not long after he enter college.They got lots of player like him in Bucks and afraid he will ask for more money once his contract is up. Look at his history,u will like this guy...hes really young and got potential..remember Spurs is quite damn old

[hsxvvd]

I prefer my players with eyebrows.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I prefer my players with eyebrows.

:lol

[Steve-O-Matic]

Why on Earth would the Spurs want a player that even a dreadful team like Milwaukee wants nothing to do with? C'mon, folks, think before you post the next "let's go get this loser, he's available!" thread.

[rj215]

Villanueva sucks monkey balls. He wouldn't make it to the first game of the season cuz Pop would kill him in training camp or bury him under the bench like he did with Jackie Butler.

[The Franchise]

Pass. Scrub. Half assed player even on the Bucks.

Yeah.

[kobyz]

Tracy Murray once scored 50 in a game.

And while CV does out-rebound Bonner, it's by only a slight margin.

I would be alright with it because yes, he does have a higher ceiling than Bonner + his contract expires earlier and we'd be rid of Bonner's deal.

I just don't think he'd be a guy Pop would target or that he would be much of an upgrade over the Red Rocket.

i dont want CV on the Spurs as well i dont love his game and his passion , but it's pathetic that peapole thinks that we could get CV or someone else with value as a matter of fact in exchange for Bonner, no one will want Bonner and his 3 milion contract, Bonner is useless

[waly.mg]

Bonner + 2nd round pick + cash (if needed)

- cash + some Draft Picks Rights (Splitter)

[Sway]

I prefer my players with eyebrows.

Man that’s not cool at all. Villanueva suffers from alopecia areata, an autoimmune skin disease. It causes hair loss throughout the body.

[tp2021]

I prefer my players with eyebrows.

If he comes to San Antonio, he could always pencil them in.

[Jlowd21]

Man that’s not cool at all. Villanueva suffers from alopecia areata, an autoimmune skin disease. It causes hair loss throughout the body.


Whoopi's missing her eyebrows too, but I think it's by choice.

http://www.wma.com/whoopi_goldberg/imgs/WHOOPI_GOLDBERG_1.jpg